norseman Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Far Archer wrote: If they have an area they populate - a remote area, with shelter, or a series of nearby shelters, a nearby source of water, and are able to feed - and conduct the bulk of their activities at night, why, in the Wide, Wide World of Sports would they engage in a constant migration? That makes no sense. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thats the point.....they will not be able to sustain themselves for very long in one location. (180 lbs body weight) tribes of Indians were forced to move around large home ranges in search of food if the tribe did not adopt farming. So now we are talking about a tribe of Bigfeet in which one individual weighs more than FOUR men. Do the math. ----------------- The hunters of the family, or hunters combining of nearby families overnight can range far and wide - and from what I saw - they can cover many miles on any given night. Easily. You cover four feet or so every step - you can cover some ground. You have good night vision - you can really hunt. If their eyes are twice as large as ours - that automatically enables them to gather twice the ambient light. ---------------------------------------------- Im not disputing that. ----------------------------- But here's a kicker - rod cells - the ones that provide night vision to many nocturnal species through special DNA architecture - turn the rod cell nuclei into little light-collecting lenses, with millions of them in the eye. Due to architecture, there are light scattering (in all directions) nuclei, which acts to share with other nuclei, and then there are the nuclei that focus light in one direction, meaning light can travel farther back into the eye to be perceived. Now if you have this - unlike us - your night vision is most excellent - enabling those delegated to hunt and gather - to hunt and gather. ----------------------------- Im not disputing that either. ------------------------------ So no, they don't have to take the kids with them everywhere they go. Momma keeps the kids, grandpa can take it easy and maybe just conduct sentry duty, while the adult males do the hunting and gathering. ------------------------------ Until there is nothing left to hunt and gather.....then what? Then momma and grandpa and baby must pick up and migrate to a new location. Yes? ------------------------------ The recon analogy - and I know it went right over your head - applied to what I keep saying - it's EASY TO HIDE FROM HUMANS. Easy. ------------------------------ From Starbucks sipping, computer analyst, Lexus driving dude???? Absolutely! Hiding from Davy Crockett, Daniel Boone, Apache, Mohawks? And all the rest for most of their evolutionary history? No....not easy. ------------------------------ Oh. And you missed the principle of the Hobbitt. The dwarfism wasn't due to them occupying an island - it was due to limited land, food, freedom of movement, and other elements necessary for sustenance. The same thing applies to a continent - with varying land terrains. If, as you suggested, they are barely able to feed themselves (like the Hobbitts), they wouldn't be so large. You want to apply one principle to one group, but not apply the identical, same principle to another group. You want selective use of universal principles - and it doesn't work that way. ------------------------------ No, it really is from them residing on an Island. It really is a thing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insular_dwarfism And it's not me.....it's you that wants to be selective to universal principles. Because a 800 lbs HUMAN would simply kill all otherhumans and take their stuff. They would be the ones eating backyard steaks while we peered out from the wood line while gnawing on bunch grass. --------------------------------------- If a large species lacks sufficient food to thrive and thrive well - it will (per Darwin) get smaller so that the critter becomes more efficient and can better use limited food supplies. ---------------------------------------- A 400 lbs gorilla is 400 lbs by eating stuff you and I would starve from. That dog won't hunt. Which means UNLIKE us they fill a separate niche that does not lead to direct confrontation with humans. ---------------------------------------- But we're not seeing that with BF. You like to take a position, and consider the aspects that may support your pre-determined position. I saw a primitive form of man - and they aren't like the intentionally humanized forms you see in the Smithsonian. You seek an ape. Big difference. And I'd agree - if it were a dumb ape, we'd have a number of them on hand by now. If it were a big dumb ape, we wouldn't hear about their "language." If it were a big dumb ape, they wouldn't be so cleverly elusive. If it were a big dumb ape, they'd be more limited to a certain local ecology. But a primitive man wouldn't have those restrictions. -------------------------------------------------------- Seeing a tornado doesnt make you a meteorologist. I respect that you saw what you believe is a primitive man. I would bet my bottom dollar that bipedalism swayed your opinion the most. And not that you saw a spear or a hand axe or a head dress or body paint or any of the other accroutremen associated with humans over the past million years. But it doesn't matter.....what it is. If it was a group of 800 lbs aliens who crash landed from Persion 5 who were also trying to sustain themselves in the mountains of North America? Would be faced with the the same challenges of trying to sustain themselves in a very challenging limited non tropical habitat. I don't think your looking at this in the right context. I do not believe as a rancher who feeds animals on a daily basis that a large group of 800 lbs apes/humans/animals could remain in one spot and avoid detection for long. To take this post right back to the OP? It would be really easy to find a large group of Bigfeet. A couple of FLIR drones could do that in the eastern deciduous forests during winter in a matter of weeks. There is hardly any cover during winter. If only it were that easy right? 3 hours ago, Yuchi1 said: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/09/eric_frein_search_its_easy_to.html A lone gun man successfully hides from police? So what your saying per your article is that you agree with me? Bigfeet must disperse into the landscape in ones and twos to successfully hide from humans? Bout time you came around to my way of thinking Yuchi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWWASAS Posted January 25, 2017 BFF Patron Share Posted January 25, 2017 You could be right with the drones but someone has to have the bucks to put enough of them in the air and replace them when they have problems. That puts it out of reach with most of us. I love field work in the winter because of the lack of leafy vegetation blocking vision. It is a very dangerous time for BF to be moving around humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Except where I live it's all evergreens, so cover doesn't change. But if large groups of Bigfeet are hunting during winter? Where are the tracks? One set of snow tracks in my lifetime. If they are here and hunting to eat during winter? I should have cut way more tracks than that. Do you know how many snowmobile miles I have in my lifetime trying to cut cougar tracks. A bunch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 28 minutes ago, norseman said: ....Because a 800 lbs HUMAN would simply kill all otherhumans and take their stuff. They would be the ones eating backyard steaks while we peered out from the wood line while gnawing on bunch grass. Dang it!............You owe me a keyboard Norseman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuchi1 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, norseman said: Except where I live it's all evergreens, so cover doesn't change. But if large groups of Bigfeet are hunting during winter? Where are the tracks? One set of snow tracks in my lifetime. If they are here and hunting to eat during winter? I should have cut way more tracks than that. Do you know how many snowmobile miles I have in my lifetime trying to cut cougar tracks. A bunch. Ever thought that you might living or be looking where there simply aren't any BF? 4 hours ago, Yuchi1 said: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/09/eric_frein_search_its_easy_to.html A lone gun man successfully hides from police? So what your saying per your article is that you agree with me? Bigfeet must disperse into the landscape in ones and twos to successfully hide from humans? The article appears to state that a human having grown up in our modern urban environment could successfully elude LE. Imagine what a BF can do having grown up in a woodland/wild environment with woodcraft skills we can't even begin to fathom. Edited January 26, 2017 by Yuchi1 typo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarArcher Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 2 hours ago, hiflier said: Yes you have been careful and I remember when I first read you post about it a couple of days or so back. What works for them as far as them being cagey (maybe a good word?) is the advantage of having the "cave man" body shape. So beyond lumbering around like a bear because of it. Ironically that shape has allowed them the luxury of their curiosity with little in the way of repercussion. Heh, rattling a pair a antlers together can bring in a moose....does that help? Just kidding. I pretty much think you know what your doing. That will be news to my wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Yuchi1 said: Imagine what a BF can do having grown up in a woodland/wild environment with woodcraft skills we can't even begin to fathom. I think we CAN fathom them. There are apparently a set of skills that they have. Maybe some more than others but considering the nature of the beast so to speak that skill set isn't made up of a whole lot of different things. The million dollar question? Knowing what we have read about over the months, and for some folks- years, just how big or extensive is that skill set. Not counting physical size, strength, speed etc. is there an upper limit for the list of skills they use to get along in the wild and avoid Humans? How big is the list? My guess is that in listing those skills we may find that there aren't that many tactics that they pull although the ones they do pull they use well. Perhaps itemizing those skills might cut things down to size. It may only be five or six items that Sasquatch jumbles up for any given situation. What are they? And general terms like "stealth" would be too broad, Stealth covers several techniques. What are they? Maybe nailing things down would sharpen the picture of this creature's ability. Breaking down these points may help to clarify an approach to take in the field and gain some ground on what to expect. "know the enemy" so to speak. And BTW these are things I need to know as well. 19 minutes ago, FarArcher said: That will be news to my wife. Thanks, there goes my backup keyboard. Edited January 26, 2017 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, hiflier said: Dang it!............You owe me a keyboard Norseman. Darn it....what's yer PayPal account! --------------------------------------------------------- Yuchi wrote: Ever thought that you might living or be looking where there simply aren't any BF? ---------------------------------------------------------- Yes. Despite living very close to Bossburg, the Colville Indian reservation and the Selkirk mtns which hold the last remaining woodland Caribou. Not to mention one of the oldest Bigfoot accounts of North America. http://www.bigfootencounters.com/legends/spokanes.htm So my second inclination is that they live a very dispersed reclusive lifestyle that's hard to track. Large groups are not hard to track. Edited January 26, 2017 by norseman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 The ones folks have witnessed may only be the ones outside an enclave that are doing the food gathering. The bulk of the clan 4-8? may be underground. A high encounter Sasquatch neighborhood could indicate several clans in various underground locations close enough together 20-30 miles? to have different location members hunt together in small groups of three or four. All speculation of course but trying on different ideas. As far as the tactics used in the skill set I'd like to open up the dialogue with: 1) the concept of approach- both day and night time approaches by Sasquatch. Breaking it down into a couple of different things is probably best although used together they would have the best effect: Crab walking and Tree peeping. Both in the daytime and at night. Would knowing that these two tactics could be deployed singly or together help in having a better understanding of what to watch for? If one is in what is believed to be an active area would being aware of how they approach have a better chance for a sighting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 Other skills reported are hiding under leaves, pretending to be logs, remaining still in underbrush, getting up and down slopes, throwing things, intimidation while remaining hidden and intimidation while NOT remaining hidden. Learning these things do not cost a lot to do but if there is a team who wish to get paid then part of that pay involves teaching them about this creature. training them if they are not up on the subject and going through various scenarios in the field. It doesn't happen overnight. A normal hunter may find that it is going to take time to understand and respond to a target whose skill set is far, far and away not that of a deer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantor Posted January 26, 2017 Admin Share Posted January 26, 2017 14 hours ago, VAfooter said: gig, here are some resources for WV caves (not saying they are great, but at least a starting point for further investigations): http://var.caves.org/index.php/conservation/closed-caves/var-limited-access-caves http://www.caverbob.com/usalong.htm http://www.wvacs.org/index.html https://www.wvass.org/ Some are tourist locations, but a number of them are not. The WVASS site looks to be a possible treasure trove of information. Thanks for the info, I've researched most of these already. You have to be a member of the NSS to get access to those publications. Membership is only granted to scientists, field biologists, etc. Basically, you have to be conducting a research project from a credited org or University to get at the data. Like I said, there is a blackout of the info. There is a way we can do this though, it is to form a non-profit research group which conducts surveys of caves. To simplify matters, we would specify that we do not intend or need to enter the caves. We simply want to monitor the "mouth" of the caves to produce a survey of which animal species use it, by placing trail cams near the entrance. I think they would approve it and allow us to conduct such surveys if the data is published, shared it with the NSS via a "bulleting" and follow their procedures. Anyone interested in helping me do the paperwork and setup the org? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic Raider Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 On 25/01/2017 at 5:05 AM, gigantor said: I think the best explanation is that they've gone extinct or are nearly so. But just to leave no stone unturned, I have looked into the cave idea and think it's a plausible one. I find it curious that there is a blackout on cave location info by most states. I challenge anyone (go to it hiflier) to come up with a source of cave locations for WV for example, or any other state. There are known caves everywhere, but none documented except for the tourist attractions and the caving clubs have been muzzled in order to not reveal cave locations. I've spent many hours researching for this info and have found none. Knowing cave locations would make it easy to place trail cams near the entrance and get a conclusive result. I'm ready and willing to do so, but can't find them. The reason given is to protect bats. I'm not sold on that one yet. I find this thought interesting, but haven't alleged sightings of these creatures increased in number? Haven't we gotten more and more footage - even if some of it is poor quality? And aren't several groups like NAWAC reporting seeing and shooting at these animals in the last few years? Why are the modern reports any more suspect than the 'old time' reports - which they must be if the animal is extinct? I presume that you would think the PGF is authentic and that this is the creature existing in the late 60's, maybe the point is that because we have more people looking now and better technology and a higher profile that the percentage of reports, photos and videos should have risen ten fold or more and that a small increase is actually a percentage decrease when the man hours and money spent are taken into account - a net decrease so to speak. So, if you do believe the creature has existed and is on the verge of extinction - wouldn't it be imperative to locate and protect the creature even at a very, very high cost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyO Posted January 26, 2017 SSR Team Share Posted January 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Celtic Raider said: I find this thought interesting, but haven't alleged sightings of these creatures increased in number? Gradual decrease as far as the SSR is concerned. Of course that decrease is increasing daily as reports are added to the SSR but it's still on target for a general, overall decrease in the last 10 years or so I believe. This isn't an example across the board, but it is an example of an area thought to be a Sasquatch hot bed. #Sasquatch - We currently have a total of 114 reports from the NorCal "Sasquatch hotbed" Counties of Del Norte, Siskiyou, Humboldt and Trinity in the database.An interesting early indication is that there hasn't been a report from either of these four counties since December 2011.Just to add, we don't have a report so far from the four OR counties directly to the north (Josephine, Jackson, Coos and Douglas) from this time range either, yet have close to 50 reports prior to it.It should be noted we are continually adding reports to these 8 PNW Counties however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIB Posted January 26, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 26, 2017 43 minutes ago, BobbyO said: Gradual decrease as far as the SSR is concerned. Based on date of event or based on date of submission? Just curious. MIB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 9 hours ago, gigantor said: Thanks for the info, I've researched most of these already. You have to be a member of the NSS to get access to those publications. Membership is only granted to scientists, field biologists, etc. Basically, you have to be conducting a research project from a credited org or University to get at the data. Like I said, there is a blackout of the info. There is a way we can do this though, it is to form a non-profit research group which conducts surveys of caves. To simplify matters, we would specify that we do not intend or need to enter the caves. We simply want to monitor the "mouth" of the caves to produce a survey of which animal species use it, by placing trail cams near the entrance. I think they would approve it and allow us to conduct such surveys if the data is published, shared it with the NSS via a "bulleting" and follow their procedures. Anyone interested in helping me do the paperwork and setup the org? What about presenting your case to a biologist at a university and piggy backing off of his credentials? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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