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Sorry it's taken a while to reply. Been busy and haven't had the time to properly research and set out my thoughts. I'm also sorry that this is going to be quite long. I wasn't aware that firefighters were involved in SAR missions, but clearly, in that light, you're right that that experience certainly counts. My issue with the Dennis Martin case is that much of what seems unusual only seems so if your information comes from David Paulides either directly (from the books/movies/videos) or indirectly (as the narrative that most people relay seems to incorporate his 'take' so that 'reporting' on websites seem to also incorporate them). If you look at actual newspaper reports, NPS reports and FBI Files and documents from the time, everything seems less unusual. Harold Key and his testimony is a perfect example. According to Paulides Dennis went missing at 3:30pm and that 'the same day sometime between 4:30 and 5:30pm' Harold Key heard a scream. This is important because Bill Martin and a Park Ranger supposedly hiked the 7-9 mile trail from Spence Field to the area Harold Key identified, taking 90 minutes to do so. The problem - Dennis went missing at 4:30pm (NPS chronology and the Incident report, as well as most contemporaneous newspaper reports confirm this) and Harold Key said he heard the scream 'it must have been around 4:30 in the afternoon. I know that it couldn't have been earlier than 3:30 or later than about 5:30' - Knoxville News Sentinel 7.21.1969. 'Key said that the scream 'a trouble scream' was heard about '4 or 4:30 in the afternoon' - Kingsport Times 7.22.1969 So the scream happened around the same time Dennis went missing, was just as, if not more likely to have happened before than after he went missing, and even taking the absolute latest time of 5:30pm would only leave and hour for someone to hike and carry Dennis a trail that had taken his father 90 minutes - his father, of course, would have been hiking as quickly as possible to prove a point, given his (fully understandable) desperation to get the FBI involved. Without changing the time of the disappearance (whether purposefully to suggest foul play, or a result of the shoddiest investigation/reporting of a fundamental fact possible, who can say?), the whole Harold Key testimony becomes irrelevant, exactly as the Rangers and FBI assessed. Remember also that Harold Key came forth on the July 20/21 1969. Green Beret help was requested June 15, and they had left by June 26. The Green Beret deployment couldn't be a result of Key's testimony because he wouldn't go on to tell anyone for well over a month after they were deployed and at a time when they'd left almost 4 weeks earlier. The idea of a man running and carrying something on his shoulder also seems to come from Paulides and Paulides only. He says that he interviewed Bill Martin (although Mrs Martin told Michael Bouchard later, after Bill Martin's death, that she had no recollection of any such interview) and that 'Mr Martin stated that the Keys had thought they saw a dark figured man running along a ridgeline carrying something on his shoulder.' So David Paulides says that Bill Martin said that Harold Key said there was a guy running with something on his shoulder. Only none of that appears in the NPS or FBI reports or crucially the newspaper reports. That means that Harold Key decided to come forward to try to help and either left out the most crucial part when talking to the press, or the press decided against publishing the most intriguing part of the story. Seems unlikely in the extreme. In addition to that, Bill Martin, who it seems to me from reviewing the FBI files and various newspapers, was of course desperate to get the FBI involved, didn't bother to mention to the newspapers, NPS or FBI that there was this evidence that would point toward a kidnapping and therefore probably get the FBI involved, exactly what he wanted? I don't buy it. There was a taped interview (see page 35 FBI documents) where Bill Martin 'speculated foul play ...but furnished no basis for this inference'. There's a letter in the NPS files (pg69) from Bill Martin to a Mr Hartsog complaining of not being informed of Mr Key's story before the press and before Mr Key showed the FBI and NPS where he was on that day. In it he states that he has spoken to Mr Key 'long distance several times. He complains that some descriptions of foliage and terrain, as reported by the newspaper, was incorrect. He did not complain that none of the NPS, FBI or newspapers made any mention of a person 'carrying something on his shoulder', which is again exactly the type of information that would likely have got him exactly what he was so desperate for. And those are his own written words. My take is that the man Harold Key saw was probably up to no good - moonshining as Harold Key thought, illegal ginseng harvesting like the later man who found bones, or something else. But it seems certain that it had nothing to do with Dennis Martin. That obviously doesn't mean that it's impossible that an off the gird mountain man didn't take Dennis because obviously nobody knows for certain. But it still seems infinitely more likely that a 6 year old got turned around in the forest, got lost and in the pouring rain and wind succumbed to hypothermia o, was attacked by an animal or fell down a crevice or into a stream. By all accounts 56 square miles had been searched by 6.23.1969. That equates to a circle with a radius of 4.22 miles. In 9 days. Meaning that the search assumed (or at least was not able to expand beyond) a possible distance of less than half a mile a day. As mentioned in a previous post, a conservative estimate of movement of 1mph would give a search area of over 450 square miles before the search had even really begun. Regarding the possibility of abduction by mountain men and Green Berets being deployed because of the threat, a few thoughts struck me while researching and thinking about this. If the Green Berets were deployed because of any such threat, it would require collusion between anyone at the NPS who had contributed to or seen the NPS chronology (so that it was faked), the FBI and anyone within it who knew about the threat of such mountain men and the military, including all those involved in deploying or searching with the Green Berets, with not one single person speaking out in over 50 years. Possible? Maybe. Probable? Would the authorities, knowing of the threat, allowed civilian volunteers to search the very areas that these mountain men were thought to predate on? In particular, if the authorities thought that a mountain man took a small child, would they allow the boy scouts to search remote places in the vicinity? Would the authorities send in the Green Berets to 'take out' a threat in an area that was being actively searched by hundreds if not thousands of people who might see or hear them doing exactly that? If they did suspect a Kari Swenson type situation, why hide it (in the official records that wouldn't be available to the public, not 'why wouldn't they announce it to the press at the time?')? My (very basic) look at that case doesn't suggest that they hid that case . If they turned out to be right they'd be heroes for finding the boy or giving the family closure (they could obviously come up with a 'they pulled their guns first' type story if necessary to cover for eliminating them if they found Dennis). If they thought so, but turned out wrong, who would care that they were extra precautious? If there are mountain men out there, off the grid, why would the authorities assume that they were murderous child snatchers? And wouldn't the search by thousands have found their dwellings? To me, although as I say, it isn't entirely impossible that Dennis was taken, any scenario other than him getting lost and falling foul to weather or animals, means making leaps in logic that aren't supported by any factual basis. It means saying 'everyone, the FBI, NPS, newspapers and military, is lying to you to persuade you that the very probably happened, whereas what actually happened was the very unlikely, for which I have no real proof'. Anyway, that's my 2 cents/pence, an eye opener for me only in the sense that I don't feel I have to look much further into the M411, given that the case that is often held as the flag bearer for the theory falls apart as soon as you start checking things for yourself.

^^^ Thanks wiiawiwb. Despite breaking an arm 2 miles into the woods, my wife and I have not carried any type of locator even though many hikes in the Adirondacks and Catskills have pockets of no cell service. We're going up to Banff shortly and the first thing I read was "don't expect to have any cell service." I went with a Zoleo as an emergency communication system in the event of something bad - whether it be a hobbling twisted ankle that requires more assistance than my wife can provide or being et by a 1,000 grizzly bear. My wife is trained on using it, so if one of us goes down, the other one is the communicator. If it's really bad (like the recent rock slide in Banff that killed a few hikers), well xin loi.

It would help if you can describe that type of potential emergency you are concerned about. For example, let's say are concerned if you were to fall and break a leg or twist an ankle and be physically unable to transport yourself out. You're not imminitely in danger but need help. A satellite communicator such as Garmin or Zoleo works perfectly. You can describe by text your inability to extract yourself and a family member or friend could come to help you out or summon SAR if necessary. If, however, you are concerned with something catastrophic, such as a heart attack, venomous snake bite, or severe laceration where time is of the essence, I'd suggest also having a PLB ( personal locator beacon). I have both and always carry them. In a catastropic event, you may be close to unconciousness and may be unable to text a message. In that case, you want able able to press a button and know the cavalry is on its way. A PLB is more reliable for that than a satellite-messenger device, in my opinion. By having both, you can reach SAR using the PLB and then text the nature of your problem with the Garmin/Zoleo. That would enormously benefical so SAR is apprised of the nature of your problem. I have preset messages on my Garmin that briefly describe the nature of the problem. For example, one message on my Garmin says, "I've been bitten by a venomous snake, may lose consciousness and have alerted SAR on my PLB." That way, they know the problem, they know the PLB alert has been activated and can coordinate things properly. Here is someone who has lots of valuable information regarding communicator devices and this video is where I got the idea to coordinate things between a PLB and Garmin device. I've started the video at the end in the Recommendations" section.

Just a short blurb, so I included the following article, which should allow members to befuddle their children, grandchildren, nieces, and nephews for awhile. Published in The Ogden (UT) Standard-Examiner on June 08, 1883.

When I first saw Tirademan's mention of this incident in the archives, I thought he meant a town or city named Armenia in the U.S. state of Georgia. He apparently meant the Transcaucasus, that mountainous isthmus that contains the present day countries of Armenia and Georgia. I hope to find a more fulsome article; if so, I will publish it here. For now, here is an article from The Silver Reef (UT) Miner published on September 03, 1881.

Published in The Deseret News, Salt Lake City (UT) on June 07, 1873. One has to wonder how they got their news from Florida.

What happens when everyday people step into the woods and come face-to-face with something they can’t explain? In this raw and unfiltered episode of the Bigfoot Society podcast, host Jeremiah Byron shares a chilling collection of first-hand encounters pulled from live call-ins across the United States and beyond. From a seven-foot figure peering around a house near Waitt’s Mountain outside Boston… to whistled replies in the Texas wilderness… to rocks hurled in Alabama’s backcountry… and even a trail camera capture in the forests of British Columbia — each account pushes the boundary between folklore and terrifying reality. You’ll hear stories from Malden, Walpole, Tamworth, Bankhead National Forest, Oakmulgee WMA, and the Willamette National Forest of Oregon, including moments where glowing eyes, massive footprints, and even towering twenty-foot figures left witnesses shaken to their core. More than just campfire stories, these testimonies explore the violent, unpredictable, and deeply mysterious side of Sasquatch encounters — and what happens when the unknown decides to show itself. 🗣️ Share Your Story Had a Bigfoot encounter or strange experience? Send it to bigfootsociety@gmail.com – your story might be featured on the show! 🎥 Watch & Subscribe on YouTube 🔴 Subscribe here → Bigfoot Society YouTube 💬 Leave a comment & let us know your thoughts! 📞 Leave a voicemail with your story → Speakpipe (Use multiple voicemails if needed) 👥 Share this episode → Watch & Share 🎧 More episodes → Podcast Playlist 🌲 Recommended: New Jersey Bigfoot Encounters 💥 Support the Show & Get Perks ✅ Join the community on Patreon – Become a Member ✅ Listen ad-free & early on YouTube – Join Here 📱 Let’s Connect Instagram: @bigfootsocietyTwitter: @bigfoot_societyTikTok: @bigfoot.society🧰 Tools & Partners I Use (Affiliate Links) These help support the show at no extra cost to you: Beam (Better Sleep): Try BeamWildgrain (Better Bread): Join HereSeed (Probiotics): Get SeedMedi-Share (Healthcare): Learn MoreLMNT (Electrolytes) Free Sample Pack with your first purchase! : Get LMNTOrganic and non-GMO groceries delivered for less http://thrv.me/uarEhS🎙️ Podcasting Tools: Repurpose.io: Try ItDescript: Sign UpStreamyard: Start RecordingRiverside.fm: Try Riverside🎧 My Audio Interface: View on Amazon ☕ Buy Me a Coffee – Support Here 🛍️ Grab Some Merch – Shop on Etsy 📬 Mailing Address: Bigfoot Society 125 E 1st St. #233 Earlham, IA 50072 📧 Business Inquiries: bigfootsociety@gmail.com Listen to the Podcast

Cliff Barackman and James "Bobo" Fay welcome BFRO founder and Finding Bigfoot co-star Matt Moneymaker back for the third time! Matt discusses recent anomalous light activity during sasquatch expeditions, a sighting of multiple sasquatches in Washington, a new trail camera photo from Missouri, and much more! Check out the BFRO's website and official Facebook group. Start your free online visit with Hims today at http://hims.com/beyond Sign up for our weekly bonus podcast "Beyond Bigfoot & Beyond" and ad-free episodes! Get your official "Bigfoot & Beyond: Enter The Sasquatch" shirt!Listen to the Podcast

No worries. I don’t rule Bigfoot out. But Occam’s razor would favor a human as being responsible. But I think the Key family testimony is alarming and the lynchpin to the case. I really wish I could find more just about what they saw.

^^ All good. Not saying that there aren't unusual aspects, but Bigfoot would be about #37 on my list of explanations. Also, when I started writing, I was in a "high hover" ready to spit vinegar and chicklets on everything. I calmed myself down as I typed! Also wanted to throw in that there's a difference between missing children who get lost in the city or abducted by estranged parents, etc., and kids/young adults that go missing in the woods. In eastern New York, there are at least 2 20-year-old cases of adults missing in relatively confined areas who have never been found. One of these got featured in the first 4-1-1- book. In another case a missing teenager was recovered (found deceased) 2-3 months after his disappearance. And in yet another case, a missing adult was found about six months after his disappearance in an area that had been searched by drones, yet when the snow melted and the leaves blew away six months later, there he was. These four cases were all in relatively tiny areas; finding a missing adult in the woods is hard, finding a missing child is that much harder.

Not going to ban someone for speaking their mind!🙂‍↔️ I had read they were armed. But you are right. I don’t see any weapons in that photo.🤷‍♂️ The number of cases in which a child (dead or alive) is never recovered is extremely low. It sucks you lost a child. But thank you for your service!👍 I think the reason the Dennis Martin case is high profile is because it had strange elements to it. The Keys family lead that never was followed up on (it’s super creepy in and of itself) The Green Berets participation in the SAR mission. And the fact that they never found a body or a piece of clothing. It’s strange IMHO.

Welcome to the Bigfoot Forum.

Hi Bigfoot Forums, I'm Thomas from Missouri, and currently doing a seminar class in college covering weird science, currently on the topic of cryptozoology and the existence of cryptids. Bigoot sightings and other cryptids are totally on the radar I'm looking forward to seeing interesting methods for discovery, stories, testimonial evidence, and other such clues that suggests the existence of a sasquatch-like creature. I've known about bigfoot for a long time, being from a rural part of Missouri, and the topic has always interested me, with a resurfacing recently during the aforementioned class. Thank you!

Trying to reply (w/o getting banned ) from this point above, forward. I agree with thanking you for the firefighting, particularly if it was the woodland type. Tough jobs require tough men and women and I'm sure the sacrifice can be significant even in the day-to-day stuff it takes to train, prepare, and do the mundane, let alone when the mundane suddenly becomes deadly. ... a search for a 5 year old boy that had a five minute head start and cannot find him? Yep. Happens more than you'd like to think. Somewhere in all the threads here is a story that led me to join a woodlands S&R group. It was a very young child (5 years old or less) kid who walked away from the family campground in some flat, open scrubland out west and disappeared. He wasn't left alone all that long either; never found. Also, the "five minutes" could very easily been 10-15 minutes or longer; dad probably didn't start a stopwatch on the boys. From the attached AAR - the father began calling and looking for Dennis (who was 7 years old, but developmentally delayed to some degree). That's now a discouraged search behavior. Children, particularly young children, hear an adult calling their name and interpret it as they've done something wrong and may get punished, so they hide harder. The thousands of persons searching didn't hit the ground right away. Over the weekend, when search efforts were not as large, local papers report that the area was "drenched by rain" and that temperatures were in the 50s and 60s, which could easily place a person at risk of near hypothermia. A small child could easily crawl under a log to escape the rain and become so muddy as to be near invisible. The papers also report that the area is "laced" with numerous streams. In the middle of the night, in a drenching downpour (2-3" in one night), a small child could easily slip or be swept into a creek and lodged in a deadfall, etc. Another article stated that Dennis got separated (another child) in thick growth and underbrush. Even adults have been known to become disoriented under these conditions (see the case of the woman who disappeared on the Appalachian Trail in Maine). The area had The FBI never called it a kidnapping. Nothing unusual about that. The person who heard a scream, saw the scruffy human, and a car parked so to be partially hidden came forward almost a month later. There was far too little information to consider that to be a credible claim or to support categorizing the the situation (for the FBI or an LEO) as a kidnapping. They would probably keep that option open in the background, though. And when do Green Berets do civilian SAR missions anyhow? The Green Berets were not called out to do a SAR mission. The first mention of military assistance to civilian authorities (a fairly routine matter for large posts) was over the weekend when helicopters from Fort Benning carried state Park Rangers in flights over the area. (NOTE: "rangers" are mentioned several time, but the appear to be state park rangers or rangers-in-training, not U.S. Army Rangers.) The adult woman who disappeared from the AT in Maine and whose remains were found a year later had SEAL trainees searching for her. Apparently, the AT runs near a Navy SERE training facility there and SEALS and others at the base went out in their spare time and kept an eye out when doing training. There are probably more examples than this, but they don't garner the same intensive news coverage. The first mention of Green Berets joining the search comes on the Tuesday after Dennis' disappearance and specifies that they were on maneuvers in nearby western North Carolina. Hilly terrain, humidity, and downpours at any time? Sounds like near perfect training for southeast Asia. Have to search nearly impenetrable terrain for a small target (Dennis Martin). Sounds like perfect training for southeast Asia. Do your best to find a lost kid and reunite him with his family? H**** yeah, there's nothing more red-blooded American than doing this. we're in. I would also note that in the late 1960s, things like this were likely less tied up in regulations and lawyers (darned lawyers). The Green Berets on maneuvers had weapons? I don't see any in this pic from the time, but I'd be shocked if they didn't. Usually, if you're in the field, you take your assigned weapon everywhere - including the head. But even if they had weapons, that doesn't mean that they had live ammo. Rant over. From here on out, I'll just link back to this post. 00-Dennis Martin Case Study_SG.pdf

The first article is from The Daily Herald of Everett, Washington, published on May 23, 1950. The second is from the Vallejo (CA) Times-Herald, published on May 25, 1950. The final story, from the Port Angeles (WA) Peninsula Daily News Thursday, published on June 01, 1950, was likely the last news article published before the search was called off.

Published in the Kingsport (TN) Times on January 18, 1952. On the one hand, an investigator found claw marks; on the other hand, a witness heard the animal making "baby-like" noises.

Welcome Aeom, B.I.G., dougwcalvert, Pembo, Mike, Sircalum, and AMerryRose.

Hello, I live in SE Michigan currently but travel to the Gulf Coast quite often so very interested in sightings and any BF related topics in Michigan, Alabama, and along the I-65 corridor which I travel alot. I did have a very brief sighting here in Michigan 2 years ago. I am a medical social worker in my day job currently.

Demonstrating the risks of blaming every geographic name on a real Bigfoot. Published on January 24, 1952 in the Indianapolis (IN) News.

I’m Sircalum I enjoy hunting and I volunteer at a fire department in my town. I haven’t seen Bigfoot yet.

Sasquatch Sighting at Wagon Days Parade Eye On Sun ValleyView the full article

What happens when an Alaskan medevac pilot takes a jet boat deep into the backcountry — and finds himself surrounded on all sides by owl calls that may not have been owls at all? In this chilling and eye-opening episode, we sit down with Craig, a longtime Fairbanks resident and pilot, who has spent decades listening to native Alaskans, nurses, ferry workers, and even fellow pilots share their raw encounters with Sasquatch. From owl-imitations along the Teklanika River, to jet pilots spotting “dark figures in the middle of nowhere” over Prince of Wales Island, to aggressive howls, glowing eyes, and vanishing presences across Alaska’s wilderness, Craig reveals what happens when you simply ask the question most people are afraid to. You’ll hear stories spanning Ketchikan, Dillingham, Bethel, the Denali Highway, Mount St. Helens, and even Fort Lewis — with whispered connections to portals, spirit worlds, and government secrets. This episode isn’t just about sightings — it’s about the violent, otherworldly edge of Sasquatch that few dare to discuss. 🗣️ Share Your Story Had a Bigfoot encounter or strange experience? Send it to bigfootsociety@gmail.com – your story might be featured on the show! 🎥 Watch & Subscribe on YouTube 🔴 Subscribe here → Bigfoot Society YouTube 💬 Leave a comment & let us know your thoughts! 📞 Leave a voicemail with your story → Speakpipe (Use multiple voicemails if needed) 👥 Share this episode → Watch & Share 🎧 More episodes → Podcast Playlist 🌲 Recommended: New Jersey Bigfoot Encounters 💥 Support the Show & Get Perks ✅ Join the community on Patreon – Become a Member ✅ Listen ad-free & early on YouTube – Join Here 📱 Let’s Connect Instagram: @bigfootsocietyTwitter: @bigfoot_societyTikTok: @bigfoot.society🧰 Tools & Partners I Use (Affiliate Links) These help support the show at no extra cost to you: Beam (Better Sleep): Try BeamWildgrain (Better Bread): Join HereSeed (Probiotics): Get SeedMedi-Share (Healthcare): Learn MoreLMNT (Electrolytes) Free Sample Pack with your first purchase! : Get LMNTOrganic and non-GMO groceries delivered for less http://thrv.me/uarEhS🎙️ Podcasting Tools: Repurpose.io: Try ItDescript: Sign UpStreamyard: Start RecordingRiverside.fm: Try Riverside🎧 My Audio Interface: View on Amazon ☕ Buy Me a Coffee – Support Here 🛍️ Grab Some Merch – Shop on Etsy 📬 Mailing Address: Bigfoot Society 125 E 1st St. #233 Earlham, IA 50072 📧 Business Inquiries: bigfootsociety@gmail.com Listen to the Podcast

I kinda just want to go and meet the guy, I'll bet he's a hoot, but it ends Monday and too much junk between now and then go get done to take a day to drive to Syracuse...

What was the only lead? Harold Key reported a scream and a mangy human carrying something through the woods. 5 - 7 miles away from the point of disappearance. The FBI dismissed this report. My theory is that we are dealing with something akin to the Kari Swenson story, or a Claude Dallas type.

Thanks for the reply. I hate to not reply fully but there’s something I wanted to quickly check. - you say the green berets were there because of a threat but what threat specifically do you believe was there? Any sources for those threats would be great. any sources for the green berets being armed above and beyond the rangers? I’ve read (but can’t confirm without diving deep back in) that it was sidearms identical to nps rangers