Concerning The Ongoing Debate Over Skeptic /scofftic/denialist Participation On The Bff And Proving Bigfoot's Existence

[salubrious]

Actually I don't regard footprints as proof in themselves as providence plays an enormous role; however if you are trained in tacking skills some prints can be quite compelling.

 

But I don't think they need to be considered and we still have rock solid proof.

 

The issue really is not that proof exists, but much more like do people want to admit it! And the answer to that is an obvious 'no'.

 

These days there are (apparently) still people that think the world is flat and nothing you can tell them will change their mind. Its sort of like that (nothing you can tell a skoftic is likely to change their mind thus the endless debate), but in the case of BF, the proof of existence has been around for years, patiently awaiting analysis (which all proof and evidence must endure). When you do the analysis, the proof for BF suddenly becomes irrefutable.

[Doc Holliday]

evidence yes...... and not so much from the big names in Bfery. i'd kind of like to hear the average Joe stories , not the crazies or $ seekers, just regular folks... the kind that probably get drowned out here......or see the fur fly and don't bother.

 

and as for myself, no this  isnt about bipto leaving....so what, big deal .

while i wish him the best , he took his marbles and left . considering the same dude unplugged BFF 1.0  it was bound to happen eventually.... time to move on.

 

however.......it seems participation is down since threads on almost any aspect of BFery get knocked down by the tin foil hat / crackpot type remarks , usually bringing up some extreme example of what's wrong in Bfery, like that matt j fellow.  IOW the kind of dude most here would avoid anyways.

 

funny it was compared to a belief system though... since evidence continues to surface how posters from other forums seem to appear on the BFF spreading the gospel of Randi .

 

so no Crow , there is no high ground to be had if  folks come here intent on hitting below the belt just for chuckles.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Doc Holliday

[WSA]

Baby steps. Let's work on that whole "stuff that people see, hear and smell is evidence" thingey first. We have trouble enough with that idea as it is.

[salubrious]

Here's one for you:

 

http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/47783-new-member-introductions/?p=922751

[Bonehead74]

Oh goody. This thread is now becoming a debate about the existence of bigfoot. How novel. Awesome.

 

Edited August 26, 2015 by Bonehead74

[Guest DWA]

 

 after the smoke has cleared the non believer/skeptic/ scoftics still control the high ground in that there is no proof that bigfoot exists outside of the belief system of bigfootism.

 

Actually there is proof but you have consistently ignored it or dismissed it, not sure which. I've pointed it out to you on a number of occasions yet you continue to post as if nothing happened. Paramount in that, you've never refuted my point.

 

 

Let's just say...were I a moderator it never would have gotten this far.

 

Oh the proof is easy enough. But you have to take the time to do the analysis.

 

And I say it again:  there are few here who have close to thought about this topic enough.

 

Baby steps. Let's work on that whole "stuff that people see, hear and smell is evidence" thingey first. We have trouble enough with that idea as it is.

 

I have actually had people give me definitions for proof and evidence ...that defined proof, twice.

 

You can lead that horse to water.  But.

[hiflier]

Hello salubrious,

Intense.

[Guest Crowlogic]

We have more proof that T-Rex existed than we have of bigfoot's existence.  Same for Neanderthal and most of the other proto humans. The best that has been mustered in the way of proof for bigfoot exists as advanced demonstrations of how proof is built.  It is deemed unreasonable by some to demand a type specimen or other biological part thereof.  When I look at bigfoot evidence/proof I am reminded of something once told me by a wise person.  If something can't ignite a profound yes from within then consider it a no.    A person is entitled to demand the profound yes and why shouldn't we?

[SWWASAS]

The skeptic/scoftic contigent can be banished , burned and scorned until the cows come home and most likely it will be.  The proponent wagons have circled and are releasing their salvos.  That is fine it's to be expected.  However after all the ammunition has been fired and after the smoke has cleared the non believer/skeptic/ scoftics still control the high ground in that there is no proof that bigfoot exists outside of the belief system of bigfootism.  The world at large  still lacks the very thing that would drive the point home of it's existence and we all know that it is a type specimen.

 

In the meantime the lunatic fringe shows no signs of abating and the so called serious core is without it's type specimen.  If I were going to plan a sabotage of a belief system I would approach it exactly the way  Mathew Johnston is going.  He starts out as a learned professional person of letters and makes some articulate intelligently presented videos that even we scoftics can appreciate.  Then after establishing his credentials he suddenly throws the switch and now his in the cab of the locomotive at the head of the woo train barreling down the main line and into the roundhouse of bigfootism.  So sure let's all play nice in the sandbox but exactly how seriously can a belief system be taken when stuff like I just mentioned goes on all the time.  

Interesting logic presented here.     Because there is no proof that BF exists in the form of a type specimen, it does not exist.    There are many discovered species  that were not accepted by science to exist before a type specimen was collected but somehow that did not prevent them from there and being discovered.    And in the usual conciliatory manner to promote forum harmony "lunatic fringe" is thrown in to bash proponents.     Proponents are circling the wagons to prevent this site from becoming a second JREF forum or whatever it calls itself now days.  

 

I find it interesting that over time this site,   Mathew Johnston,   Thom Powell,   Ron Morehead, and others are heading for woo woo land.        That is either because there is something there, something profoundly not understandable,   or those people have really believed that way all along but dared not say it.    I have never experienced woo but with the state of modern physics there are stranger things that science embraces so do keep an open mind.     

[hiflier]

Hello Crowlogic,

 

...A person is entitled to demand the profound yes and why shouldn't we?

Of course, but when the demand is never met to one's satisfaction at what point does one simply walk away? Or should I say at what point would you walk away. Or maybe more to an inner, more personal point, CAN you walk away. It may be something you might want to consider? And if you haven't already, then why haven't you?

Edited August 26, 2015 by hiflier

[Guest Crowlogic]

Hello Crowlogic,

 

...A person is entitled to demand the profound yes and why shouldn't we?

Of course, but when the demand is never met to one's satisfaction at what point does one simply walk away? Or should I say at what point would you walk away. Or maybe more to an inner, more personal point, CAN you walk away. It may be something you might want to consider? And if you haven't already, then why haven't you?

 

But the demand is clear.  A type specimen, or significant part of a type specimen.  If we had the identical amount and type of evidence for bigfoot as we do Neanderthal there would be no question. 

Edited August 26, 2015 by Crowlogic

[Rockape]

 

Hello Crowlogic,

 

...A person is entitled to demand the profound yes and why shouldn't we?

Of course, but when the demand is never met to one's satisfaction at what point does one simply walk away? Or should I say at what point would you walk away. Or maybe more to an inner, more personal point, CAN you walk away. It may be something you might want to consider? And if you haven't already, then why haven't you?

 

But the demand is clear.  A type specimen, or significant part of a type specimen.  If we had the identical amount and type of evidence for bigfoot as we do Neanderthal there would be no question. 

 

Why don't you answer hiflier's question? I can only assume it is because you believe it is possible bigfoot exists.

[Bodhi]

Very true Bonehead, only took 6 pages before it happened.

 

Let it be noted that it was Sal who started it this time.

[Guest Crowlogic]

 

 

Hello Crowlogic,

 

...A person is entitled to demand the profound yes and why shouldn't we?

Of course, but when the demand is never met to one's satisfaction at what point does one simply walk away? Or should I say at what point would you walk away. Or maybe more to an inner, more personal point, CAN you walk away. It may be something you might want to consider? And if you haven't already, then why haven't you?

 

But the demand is clear.  A type specimen, or significant part of a type specimen.  If we had the identical amount and type of evidence for bigfoot as we do Neanderthal there would be no question. 

 

Why don't you answer hiflier's question? I can only assume it is because you believe it is possible bigfoot exists.

 

So the question is at what point do you walk away?  Since my position does not cause me concern , alarm  or unhappiness I never weigh the question.  Some may think I rage behind a keyboard but as I have often stated it is a rather dispassionate situation.  I believe 100% in the possibility that a creature like bigfoot could exist.  But I also believe that one day human beings will communicate telepathically with one another.  There is potential for both.  But potential does not a reality make.  I'll stake my life that bigfoot has the potential to exist and I'd stake my life that it does not.  There does that explain the difference between believing and possibility?

[hiflier]

Hello Crowlogic,

 

But the demand is clear.  A type specimen, or significant part of a type specimen.  If we had the identical amount and type of evidence for bigfoot as we do Neanderthal there would be no question.

I never said the demand wasn't clear. You calling for "a type specimen, or a significant part of a type specimen" is no different that what I demand or most everyone else here so that to me isn't the issue. It's just that I'm willing to put my brain into how to procure one should they exist. Because even though I lean toward the evidence there is a possibility (likelihood?) that they don't. So rather than do nothing about the problem I've chose to get involved in the attempt to lay the matter to rest.

I demand a specimen and do something about it while you demand the same thing but choose to darken the atmosphere here when it isn't procured on your terms or time line? Do you even have a timeline? Is this your way of spurring on those involved in the hunt? Because if it is then I don't see how proponent bashing makes things go any faster or unfold any quicker for those that are searching for that type specimen or significant part thereof in the field. I guess I'm trying to understand what it is you want.