For Those Of Us Who Don't Think Sasquatch Is Genus Homo...

[Guest DWA]

...a little food for thought never hurts any:

 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/09/150910-human-evolution-change/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_content=link_fb20150910news-bergerdiscovery&utm_campaign=Content&sf12951584=1

 

It's all about taxonomy.

[Guest DWA]

From the text:

 

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In any case there was only one way to get the analysis done quickly: Put a lot of eyes on the bones. Along with the 20-odd senior scientists who had helped him evaluate the Malapa skeletons, Berger invited more than 30 young scientists, some with the ink still wet on their Ph.D.’s, to Johannesburg from some 15 countries, for a blitzkrieg fossil fest lasting six weeks. To some older scientists who weren’t involved, putting young people on the front line just to rush the papers into print seemed rash. But for the young people in question, it was “a paleofantasy come true,†said Lucas Delezene, a newly appointed professor at the University of Arkansas. “In grad school you dream of a pile of fossils no one has seen before, and you get to figure it out.â€

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Open science is, in the age of the Internet, by far the way to go now.  The scientists who frown on it are just what a lot of us who think like scientists *don't* trust about the scientific establishment.

[Cotter]

I heard that on the radio today.

Hmmmm....yet another species discovered.  This one they suspect disposed of the bodies of their dead in the cave.  Something that scientists assumed only homo sapiens did.

 

How many of these new species have been disovered in the past few years?   Seems like it's picking up rather than slowing down. 

[Guest DWA]

^^^Exactly.  And what was this guy doing?  Searching in a place no one else did for what no one else thought would be found there, and...an avalanche of remains.

[Guest UPs]

This guy knows that he is unlikely to find discoveries such as this so what does he do? He networks with cavers and tells them what to look for and let him know if they find anything interesting. Apparently, it was some cavers that actually discovered the bones and told him about their find and also how difficult it was to get to the chamber where they were found. It is probably easier for him to recruit people because of his past discoveries and I wonder if any of the scientists interested in bf are doing the same thing.

[norseman]

What baffles me is that there was evidence that someone had messed with the bones prior to their discovery.

WOW! Very cool DWA!

[Guest DWA]

And another thing from the text:

 

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When a major new find is made in human evolution—or even a minor new find—it’s common to claim it overturns all previous notions of our ancestry. 

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I have long gotten upset about such assertions wherever they are made in science.  When you have found something new - as Berger was astute enough to see - that it is new is enough.  There is not enough evidence to support the sweeping claims that, in fact, most scientists make following most scientific discoveries.  Which can be chalked up to notoriety and money...not scientific thought.

 

Berger's going to the jury before the remains were dated:  genius.  (Which remember is always "why didn't I think of that.")  As he notes:  this is a groundbreaking find, no matter its date.

 

What baffles me is that there was evidence that someone had messed with the bones prior to their discovery.

WOW! Very cool DWA!

And that's what I try to remember about every "if they were real we would have...".  Apparently,  no, we wouldn't.  Whoever came across these - which doesn't appear so much proven as supported by much evidence - had no idea what they'd found, and either left everything or took little.  And did nothing with what they took that we ever found out about.

[hiflier]

Hello All,

 

Can any one say "Sand Hills of Santa Cruz"?

[WSA]

As Luigi said to Sal in 1493: "Look. Chris finally found the tomatoes..."

 

As for indicating that BF might not be H....quite the opposite, if it indicates anything at all, right? Not sure we'd draw any direct conclusions on BF origins from this, but it might open some minds out there. My personal standard for BF acceptance is a Nat Geo cover.

 

What it undoubtedly shows, and we can expect this to continue until further notice, is the human tree is weirder and more braided than most people are prepared to accept.  Some of these people should know better.

 

(More tomatoes coming, I'm certain)

[norseman]

Well, maybe one arm of our community should be hiring one or three of these scientists to look for fossils in caves and dusty old museum basements.

I think JDL has pushed for this before.

[Guest DWA]

As Luigi said to Sal in 1493: "Look. Chris finally found the tomatoes..."

 

It's Ohio, Columbus!  No, sailor; it's Columbus, Ohio...!

 

As for indicating that BF might not be H....quite the opposite, if it indicates anything at all, right? Not sure we'd draw any direct conclusions on BF origins from this, but it might open some minds out there. My personal standard for BF acceptance is a Nat Geo cover.

 

Well, I wouldn't say so much "the opposite" as...we might be surprised, and if we are...taxonomy on the type specimen is how we will be.  Options need to be held open 'til then.

 

What it undoubtedly shows, and we can expect this to continue until further notice, is the human tree is weirder and more braided than most people are prepared to accept.  Some of these people should know better.

 

Actually, they all should.  When I was a kid it was a conveyor belt:  habilis/erectus/Neanderthal/sapiens.  Every find, it seems, since, has been accompanied by "here is the whole story now!"  Um, that would be big fat No.

 

(More tomatoes coming, I'm certain)

 

We could feed Ohio.  Or, at least, Columbus.

Edited September 10, 2015 by DWA

[Drew]

You can watch a replay of the Live presentation from this morning here:

 

http://streaming.wits.ac.za/live/index.html

 

You'll note Dr. John Hawks on the stage as well.

[Drew]

"The foot for example, is one of the most humanlike aspects of Homo naledi"

 

"A very humanlike foot anatomy"

 

"Made for long distance and effective walking"

 

-John Hawks in the presentation linked in the previous post.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Drew

[Guest DWA]

Well, there you are.  The Narrative has been:  the things having that walking adaptation had huge brains.  Well...maybe not so much.

[Drew]

Right.

Brain smaller than other Homo, but legs more like sapiens.

 

But still burying their dead, and with arms and shoulders for climbing, and hands for tool use.