MikeZimmer Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 I found this interesting critique of science. It is a long and slightly difficult article, but well worth reading. This should put science in a new light for folks who (like me),have long regarded science as the touchstone for critical understanding of the world. One possible take away idea - there are massive (and it seems to me, unsolvable) problems in the scientific enterprise, in all fields. Scientific Regress by William A. Wilson May 2016 See: http://www.firstthings.com/article/2016/05/scientific-regress Excerpt: "If science was unprepared for the influx of careerists, it was even less prepared for the blossoming of the Cult of Science. The Cult is related to the phenomenon described as “scientismâ€; both have a tendency to treat the body of scientific knowledge as a holy book or an a-religious revelation that offers simple and decisive resolutions to deep questions." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarArcher Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 I've seen this stuff first hand. And these guys will not only falsify data, but also do the inverse. They will ignore and turn from multiple, repeated results, as the results are not in line with the broadly accepted state of science in that particular area. A good friend was doing the impossible. All the time. To use an analogy, he was filling a 55-gallon drum from a four-ounce jar. At least that's what it appeared to be doing - when in truth the 55-gallon drum was being filled from the local environment, and the four ounce jar was just the trigger. No US engineering firms would test what he was doing. He paid a top German engineering firm to perform their own tests at great expense. They tested, tested again, over and over and over. They finally said he had "ghosts" in his equivalent of the 4-ounce jar. So he told them to go and buy their own equivalent of the four ounce jar - and they did. Test after tests, after test - over and again. The finally packed up their equipment, and when he asked for the results of the tests - told him "no way." Told him he was violating what conventional wisdom said was possible, and that they would never, ever say anything - lest they lose their prestige as a forensic engineering firm. The most costly manifestation of this practice is with our US Patent and Trademark Office. They alone, will determine what is possible, while holding onto conventional physics - and they'll disallow patents on things that may work as advertised, but violate classical physics. On other things that violate classical physics - they pick up the phone - and the invention is confiscated by the US Government. To even speak of it is to go to Federal prison. It's the same thought process in every single "scientific" field. It's worse than the Fifteenth Century C*tholic Church - some things are predetermined to be anathema, not to be discussed, not to be examined. Only the properly credentialed scientific high priests are allowed to refer to the texts - as in published - and outsiders are not allowed to encroach on their territory. They alone determine canon. They alone judge what is truth and what is not. It's a shame. This attitude costs humanity decades of advancement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Really? More anti-science. Look out for the Men in Black. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cryptic Megafauna Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 The anti science meme, it lives! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDL Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I don't find the USPTO to be that bad. I did actually have to go down and meet with the patent examiner before they issued my first one. Since then they've been approving the rest without any material objection. The guys that are screwed up are the ones who render the initial international opinion after the PCT filing. The idjit who reviewed my first one actually changed the title of my patent because he didn't believe I could do what I was doing. My US patents bear the original name, but all of the international patents are now titled as if they are a completely different technology. It hasn't prevented the international ones from being awarded, though. Another example is the international regulatory approval process. There's a smoke mask company that completely redefined the smoke escape mask, but the standardized tests for smoke escape masks are designed for a decades old technology and the test protocols don't work with the new. Imagine that you were the first person to make a helicopter and the regulatory people required you to pass a wind tunnel test designed for fixed wing airplanes and insisted that the rotors couldn't be rotated during the test. The test would show that you don't have enough lift to fly. That's the situation that these guys are in. For years they've been trying to get their European CE mark and can't, because the EU won't allow modification to the existing test standard and won't issue a new one. It's kept their tech, which is actually patented in the US and in Europe off of the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKH Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 LOL, +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 LOL, +1 Let me guess: You're not an ape, either. I've got news for you, pal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBorn Posted April 21, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 21, 2016 ct Really? More anti-science. Look out for the Men in Black. You need to get out more. Yes, there is what some could term anti-science. Ever hear of the Invention Secrecy Act of 1952? If you're a lawyer, you can find it codified in 35 U.S.C. Sections 181-188. And when the Men in Black come, you'll give up all data, notes, samples, and any other material to them, you'll be compelled to sign a Secrecy Agreement, vowing to never refer to the subject material to anyone at any time, for any purpose, and then you'll have to give the names of every person you've made aware of the technology in whole or in part, and they'll also be charged to sign a Secrecy Agreement. I used to have samples of the secrecy agreements - but a bright guy like you can probably find some on your own. Derision. It's not as clever as one might think. If this creature was to be found out this server would be confiscated according to this act , if it involves national security or defense. http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/invention/35usc17.html (Invention Secrecy Act of 1951) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Great, more Men in Black nonsense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarArcher Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Great, more Men in Black nonsense. I suppose you think a County Constable confiscates all lab notes, computers, all components, all elements, and all research material as well as the inventions that are forcibly taken under the 35 U.S.C. Sections 181-188 - and then compel one to sign the non-disclosure agreement, and compels everyone who knows or was in any manner exposed to either the invention or research to likewise sign non-disclosure agreements upon the penalty of federal incarceration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDL Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) Got reprimanded one day. Not because I talked about classified information I had access to, but because I put two and two together from unclassified information and proposed that the technologies could be combined to achieve a totally different effect. Turned out that it had already been developed and weaponized and was being held in reserve for a major war. This was right after Desert Storm and the technology hasn't "debuted" yet. There's plenty of tech out there that we don't know about yet. At another point agreed to perform a demonstration of our technology at Bethesda Naval Hospital and they tried to force us into a Cooperative Research and Development Agreement with a 3rd party foundation. We refused when we learned that the CRADA would give the government full and free use of our tech without compensation. During discussions, the government attorney kindly offered to license our own technology back to us. I don't think that there are men in black either, but I do know that there are laws in place that allow the government to wrest control of technology from private citizens based on a number of codified justifications that aren't common knowledge - and there are people in every agency that are willing to exercise those laws when they see advantage in doing so. It's no different from a rights perspective than the use/misuse of imminent domain, or the EPA or DOI taking land away from private citizens for various reasons. Edited April 21, 2016 by JDL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted April 21, 2016 Admin Share Posted April 21, 2016 ct Really? More anti-science. Look out for the Men in Black. You need to get out more. Yes, there is what some could term anti-science. Ever hear of the Invention Secrecy Act of 1952? If you're a lawyer, you can find it codified in 35 U.S.C. Sections 181-188. And when the Men in Black come, you'll give up all data, notes, samples, and any other material to them, you'll be compelled to sign a Secrecy Agreement, vowing to never refer to the subject material to anyone at any time, for any purpose, and then you'll have to give the names of every person you've made aware of the technology in whole or in part, and they'll also be charged to sign a Secrecy Agreement. I used to have samples of the secrecy agreements - but a bright guy like you can probably find some on your own. Derision. It's not as clever as one might think. If this creature was to be found out this server would be confiscated according to this act , if it involves national security or defense. http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/invention/35usc17.html (Invention Secrecy Act of 1951) Your link is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBorn Posted April 21, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 21, 2016 (edited) http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/invention/35usc17.html This should work as long as no one add nothing to the link from stopping the link from working. People do need to see this . since finding this creature might involve national security or defense. But even worse that this can be used to stop the truth. the old link had this added at the end %C2%A0 of the link so that the link would not work. http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/invention/35usc17.html%C2%A0 again Hackers. adding this %C2%A0 at the end of the link causes a redirect. Edited April 21, 2016 by ShadowBorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 "If science was unprepared for the influx of careerists, it was even less prepared for the blossoming of the Cult of Science. The Cult is related to the phenomenon described as “scientismâ€; both have a tendency to treat the body of scientific knowledge as a holy book or an a-religious revelation that offers simple and decisive resolutions to deep questions." I'm gonna read this. But that quote, right there. I have started to believe that we should actually start reserving the title "scientist" for people who actually show, in all questions put to them, the ability to sternly and unwaveringly apply the scientific method. (One major marker: "I/we don't know.") I'm starting to become convinced that most scientists aren't, when it comes to either the unknown or anything outside their narrow field of study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWWASAS Posted April 21, 2016 BFF Patron Share Posted April 21, 2016 To be quite honest it would serve a cover up government (if that is going on) better to just let this site run than pull the plug on it. The Forum has a herd of ardent debunkers (presumably private individuals but do we really know who they are?) at work every day trying to invalidate any argument for existence, and when they feel they are losing an argument they resort to personal attacks. We have some people on the fringes that even proponents do not accept because of the mention of portals, dimension shifting, and other pretty far out stuff which is very useful to debunkers. Shutting down a site would be the worst thing an agency involved in coverup could do because it would prove involvement. Letting the forum run is safer and allows use of misinformation techniques such agencies prefer to use because the benefits of deniability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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