Bonehead74 Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) Yes. Mostly. So, what's your point? Sasfooty, What do you think Hoosierfoot is off about, or alternately, what part(s) of his post do you agree with? Edited November 25, 2011 by Bonehead74
Guest Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 I think the point was that he would like to spark some kind of discussion, and that if you think he's off he would like to hear why you disagree. Pretty much. I like a discussion that challenges people's beliefs, opinions, and experiences. I don't have a problem if someone disagrees with me, or tries to change my thinking. She will disagree that they do not interact with humans. And that's fine, it's her opinion.
Sasfooty Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Sasfooty, What do you think Hoosierfoot is off about, or alternately, what part(s) of his post do you agree with? Well, "IMO", he's completely off on 1, 3, 5, & 6. Probably, mostly right on 2. And 4, I think they can definitely survive getting shot, but they can be killed, too.
Bonehead74 Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) Thanks Sasfooty! Do you care to elaborate anymore? I'd understand if not. I'm especially interested in #5. Edited November 25, 2011 by Bonehead74
Guest Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 If you take something like the Sierra Shootings as an example, there was one surviving Bigfoot that witnessed the destructive power of firearms. If the Sierra Shootings happened anywhere near the Sierra Sounds, then it may be possible that the surviving little one was able to communicate how the other 2 ended up dead. The child may have also led another adult back to the scene and the carnage could have been shown and described. So it may be possible they know a little about guns. Also, if they spend anytime at all trailing hunters (I've read reports that they have hijacked deer kills almost immediately), they probably have gotten a sense of what people are in the woods to do. I don't have any numbers as far as the percentage of what types of activity are done in the woods (hiking, camping, hunting, etc,) but I would imagine they have watched a lot of people discharging weapons for various reasons.
Sasfooty Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Thanks Sasfooty! Do you care to elaborate anymore? I'd understand if not. I'm especially interested in #5. 5. Bigfoot doesnt use fire because it doesn't need it/ doesn't want to be detected. I believe they are unable to harness and use it, not that they dont want it. Hoosierfoot thinks they are unable to use fire, & I think they don't need it, but may use it occasionally, in hidden locations, for certain reasons. Then, there's the cigarette thing.....
Guest LissingMinx Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Turkey poisoning is hellish! I'm just too fat and lazy to dig up the original study, and can't recall a detail or two, but I'll share anyway. They set a few chimps up in a room with a ladder and hung some bananas out of reach. First the group learned to move the ladder to reach the bananas. Then they changed out a few members. The new members were quickly "taught" to move the ladder by the original members. Then they started making climbing the ladder "dangerous". I can't recall now if it involved a small shock or a bucket of cold water in this study...anyway, they all quickly learned to avoid the ladder and ignore the hanging bananas. Switch out a few members. The original members would stop the new members from climbing the ladder. Then they switched out the last of the original members. Only chimps that had never been shocked (or doused) remained when they added yet another few new members. The chimps that had been "taught" to ignore the ladder, without having to see or experience the "danger" kept the newest members from climbing the ladder. They had no idea why it was dangerous, but made sure everyone knew it was...Chimps... As for cameras, I have always hated cameras. I don't know why. I just know when they're pointing at me, I want to hide. We were driving one night when I saw a fox sitting right on the shoulder of the road so I pulled over and right up next to it. It was literally a few feet from my truck and just sat there, scratching. Hubby leaned across me to watch him, too. He ignored us, completely. So I told hubby, grab the camera, no one will believe this...as soon as the camera was pointed at him he jumped up and bolted like his tail was on fire... Dunno why, but got no problem with believing they avoid cameras, traps and anything resembling a weapon. Here's a tip to remember when out hiking...if it looks like a human tried to hide it, you're best avoiding it.
Guest Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 In a nutshell, I think we give them too much credit for being "smarter" than we know. When actually, they are more "sly" is the case. I assume the ones that have seen a gun used are more scared of the loud bang than anything else. There is the one video of a dad and kids target shooting, and the as the kid shoots, a squatch in the background takes off running. Like it was watching them, and had the bejeezus scared out of it when the gun went off. Can someone familiar with it post a link possibly? I'm technically challenged on my phone, and not sure how to do it.
Sasfooty Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 I think "we" don't give them near enough credit...or give ourselves way too much. If they are so dull witted, & "we" so intelligent, why haven't "we" been able to even prove that they exist? 1
Bonehead74 Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Hoosierfoot thinks they are unable to use fire, & I think they don't need it, but may use it occasionally, in hidden locations, for certain reasons. Then, there's the cigarette thing..... Thanks. If I remember correctly, you've not claimed to see a sasquatch smoking, but instead smelled cigarette smoke when you believed them to be around, yes? I know your mention of it above was sort of tongue-in-cheek, but I'm still curious.
JDL Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) Good post. I think it is a combination of instinctive and learned behaviors. My cats have never seen a snake, but are terrified of anything that even roughly resembles a snake. The contribution of the learned behavior component will be proportional to the intelligence of the species assuming that as intelligence increases, the capacity to teach and learn also increases. Humans have been pointing things at bigfoot for thousands of years, all the way back to spears and stone knives. A bigfoot does not have to understand what a firearm is or what it does to avoid it, it simply needs to understand that the person using it is a member of a dangerous species. The same goes for emplaced objects such as cameras. A trailcam is, fundamentally, a trap - and we've also used traps for thousands of years. Again, understanding of the function isn't necessary - just that we put it there for some reason, and that we are dangerous. To a fox, cars aren't something that humans operate or control. They're just big ants going back and forth in a line. They don't appear to notice a fox any more than a jetliner does. Now the humans inside are something else. What they're doing inside the car to begin with is incomprehensible, but as long as they are inside, they're relatively harmless, just like the ones who look out the windows of their den. If they point something at you, though, it's time to go. It would be interesting to know if a fox who has never encountered a human takes off when an object is directed towards it. If a fox who has never had the opportunity to learn or be taught such a behavior turns and runs, then we have to consider if its behavior is instinctive, and what that says about the past. If a squatch has learned to smoke, then it has learned some mastery of fire, unless it is consistently stealing lit cigarettes. Edited November 25, 2011 by JDL
Guest Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 I agree with painthorse that whenever any animal spots you, and you change movement or anything is when they seem to bolt. Example: I farm in Indiana. When working a field, i stir up the mice and little critters out there when I desroy their home with tillage. So about every night when the tractor is out there, coyotes and an occasional fox will come right up to the last pass if the tractor and wait on the critters I stir up. They will be out there for hours at a time. But, they take off quickly if I throttle down, stop, basically any change of action of the tractor. I've also had that experience with red tailed hawks. They will fly right abovee and come down and nail a mouse, snake, or rabbit during the daytime. Pretty cool!
Guest Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 (edited) Well you just opened a big ol can o worms for sure. You seem to have two file drawers--true and false. I have two cabinets labelled I saw or heard it, and I read it. In each there are drawers called true, false, maybe, I dunno, and thinking about it. I agree with 2 and 4, at least I think I do. I know they have awesome camouflage that may have given rise to this idea. I also know there may be other creatures that are shape shifters. Although that seems really far out to me. But I promise, I get pictures of weird stuff that's so weird I only share with a few. I am not the only one getting these images, by any means. I don't know if this weird stuff is BF or something else. My jury is still out on this one. Does BF know what guns are? Personally, I wouldn't try it, but here is what you do to find out for sure: Go to a surefire-squatchy area, and walk around without a gun for thirty minutes. Then go get a gun, and walk around 30 more minutes to see if you get a different result.* Cameras: If you were in his territory, one was watching you, you betchya. BF probably does not know what cameras are for, but probably saw you put it up and leave it there. Humans rig up a contraption in the woods and leave it there, BF stays away. Fur trapping and poisoned bait taught that lesson. Your "easy fix" has been tried and didn't work. Realityghost for one. I think they might not like fire for the reason you gave--they instinctively hide and that makes sense--or maybe because it burns up all the cover or burns you if you let it get away from you. I don't know if that is why or even if they maybe do use fire. Human interaction: I don't know about Ostman or other individual cases, per se, but in general it is possible. They throw rocks at ya, that's interaction. They howl, whoop, knock, clack rocks, etc., if you do, sometimes. I believe I have had them return whistles, and of course my one that said hello. So I think it is very possible, that it likely happens, but as for individual cases, it's a case by case thing there. * Would you do that, KNOWING squatches were around? If you might not, I vote you DO think they know what guns are. Edited November 25, 2011 by Kings Canyon
Sasfooty Posted November 25, 2011 Posted November 25, 2011 Thanks. If I remember correctly, you've not claimed to see a sasquatch smoking, but instead smelled cigarette smoke when you believed them to be around, yes? I know your mention of it above was sort of tongue-in-cheek, but I'm still curious. No, I have never seen one smoking, although I have a friend who smelled the smoke & saw a cigarette glowing, about 8 feet high, one night when they were at his place. I only smelled the smoke, but didn't see anything, although they were definitely here at the time. It happened to me twice.
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