I HAVE A PLAN PICKING AT THE BACK OF MY BRAIN...RE: SMALL GROUP (4 Total) MONTH LONG IN SITU STUDY

[Frisco85132]

I have an idea, that I am in the early stages of formulating into a plan.  I want to do a three week-to-month-long stationary study in northern Idaho or Washington state.  I'd like to invite a SMALL group of 2 or 3 experienced specialists to participate.  NOTE:  I plan to fund the endeavor out of my own pocket...food, fuel, associated fees, permits as needed, incidentals, et al.  

The experience I bring is being a VERY critical examiner of evidence from the perspective of a former police officer and homicide detective, and now attorney.  I dig evidence, and can examine it from all sides, and try just as hard to DISprove it as I will to prove it.  I am also a life long hunter and outdoorsman having been raised on a working cattle ranch in Arizona.  My limitation, however, is that both my knees and right hip have been replaced due to a line of duty injury, so venturing too far afield is not in the cards for me.  I would be the "in-camp" majordomo, and handle cooking, communications, physical security, and general monitoring of any gear that may need eyes on. 

The thought is that being in a camp, for an extended period of time with cooking, music, a TV playing movies (via satellite internet and DVD), the Sierra Sounds, recorded kids and women, and maybe even other primates would elicit curiosity or even a desire on the part of the Bigfoot in the area to want us gone from their territory and evoke harassment from them.  In other words, some form of contact that could be documented via any technology available.

My RV is an extended wheelbase FORD 3500 Diesel 4X4 that is capable of getting remote enough from other people that the chances of human harassment is mitigated to the greatest extent possible.  It has a generator, solar, and satellite internet.  I also have an 8 man, and 6 man, wall tents for sleeping and general usage.  Other necessary camping gear is also part of my kit (mess and Chuck boxes and tables, chairs, cots, etc.  I figure that if a group is going to be out there for an extended period of time, comfort, good food, warm beds, and a bit of personal space will be critical.
 

GOAL:  Gather, sustain, curate, and present evidence, both physical, and digital, of an extant relict hominem in North America.  Obviously, gathering a specimen would be the ideal, but I am a "no kill just to prove it exists" type and would prefer to find the unicorn of a body, or significant part of a body...everyone can dream, right?  Besides, I am NOT convinced that the chances of success in bringing out a specimen harvested via violence would be likely, let alone the chances of human survival after killing one would be likely either.  Secondarily, I want to use whatever is found to publish a book on the study, and possibly, make any footage into documentary segments for my planned YouTube channel.  Win or Lose, Succeed or Fail...I would like to bring this to fruition if for nothing more than the experience.

SO....the question is:  Am I nuts for thinking seriously about this?  Don't hold back, I am asking for opinions.
 

Edited April 27 by Frisco85132
Spelling

[7.62]

Nuts No?

 

Just sounds like a good camping trip 

[norseman]

11 hours ago, Frisco85132 said:

I have an idea, that I am in the early stages of formulating into a plan.  I want to do a three week-to-month-long stationary study in northern Idaho or Washington state.  I'd like to invite a SMALL group of 2 or 3 experienced specialists to participate.  NOTE:  I plan to fund the endeavor out of my own pocket...food, fuel, associated fees, permits as needed, incidentals, et al.  

The experience I bring is being a VERY critical examiner of evidence from the perspective of a former police officer and homicide detective, and now attorney.  I dig evidence, and can examine it from all sides, and try just as hard to DISprove it as I will to prove it.  I am also a life long hunter and outdoorsman having been raised on a working cattle ranch in Arizona.  My limitation, however, is that both my knees and right hip have been replaced due to a line of duty injury, so venturing too far afield is not in the cards for me.  I would be the "in-camp" majordomo, and handle cooking, communications, physical security, and general monitoring of any gear that may need eyes on. 

The thought is that being in a camp, for an extended period of time with cooking, music, a TV playing movies (via satellite internet and DVD), the Sierra Sounds, recorded kids and women, and maybe even other primates would elicit curiosity or even a desire on the part of the Bigfoot in the area to want us gone from their territory and evoke harassment from them.  In other words, some form of contact that could be documented via any technology available.

My RV is an extended wheelbase FORD 3500 Diesel 4X4 that is capable of getting remote enough from other people that the chances of human harassment is mitigated to the greatest extent possible.  It has a generator, solar, and satellite internet.  I also have an 8 man, and 6 man, wall tents for sleeping and general usage.  Other necessary camping gear is also part of my kit (mess and Chuck boxes and tables, chairs, cots, etc.  I figure that if a group is going to be out there for an extended period of time, comfort, good food, warm beds, and a bit of personal space will be critical.
 

GOAL:  Gather, sustain, curate, and present evidence, both physical, and digital, of an extant relict hominem in North America.  Obviously, gathering a specimen would be the ideal, but I am a "no kill just to prove it exists" type and would prefer to find the unicorn of a body, or significant part of a body...everyone can dream, right?  Besides, I am NOT convinced that the chances of success in bringing out a specimen harvested via violence would be likely, let alone the chances of human survival after killing one would be likely either.  Secondarily, I want to use whatever is found to publish a book on the study, and possibly, make any footage into documentary segments for my planned YouTube channel.  Win or Lose, Succeed or Fail...I would like to bring this to fruition if for nothing more than the experience.

SO....the question is:  Am I nuts for thinking seriously about this?  Don't hold back, I am asking for opinions.
 

I am very much pro kill. I feel that most of Bigfoot researchers fail because they simply do not understand the demand science places on discovery of new species. That’s why they invest all of their time and effort in to dental resin and audio recorders. Which the end result is all their evidence ending up in the dustbin of cryptid curiosity and not biological discoveries.

 

Certainly time is something very few have. Most of us only commit to weekend forays because of other commitments. A month long study has a higher chance of success. But only if the end goal is physical evidence. Now finding a dead one is great. But what are the chances of that? We have discussed and debated DNA from a trackway or other trace evidence. And I am all for having as many fishing lines in the water as possible. But most people do not have the money or the connections to have a library of samples tested from a month long study.

 

Which leaves us with shooting one. As unpopular as this is with many? It’s cheap. It’s reliable. It’s readily available. And by looking at the number of sightings over the past 20 years? It’s the most under utilized. It’s also absolutely going to produce results. And it doesn’t even require a whole body. One foot or one hand would be sufficient to prove the species real. 
 

If this rolls the stomach or is seen as too big of a risk? The only other offensive option would be an air gun with a biopsy dart. You shoot the animal and retrieve the dart. The flesh core is stored safely inside. While not a whole foot representing thousands of DNA samples? It should be sufficient to at least pass the torch off to real scientists. And then they can decide how to proceed into the future.

 

You mentioned North Idaho. That’s my backyard. I did find an elk femur broken and the marrow extracted close to north Idaho and would gladly share the location with you. In private if you prefer? 

 

 

[Frisco85132]

I would BE very pro kill, had I not been eye to eye with one at a distance of slightly less than ten yards on November 13th, 1993.  I am not convinced that a creature of that size, muscle density, presumed strength, and more importantly capability of rage at being injured would be stopped immediately, even by a large caliber bullet unless the shot was delivered directly to the central nervous system.  Additionally, the possibility of one or more other creatures attacking makes the tactical situation even more unsure.  I would absolutely use lethal force in defense of myself and others, but I don't want to be the one to necessarily "start the war".  Still, there IS that part of me that believes that if given the right circumstances I might just take that shot...but I AM conflicted, so I keep 9 of my 10 toes in the "no kill" camp.

Still, I am dubious that with the density of the creature's body, most hunting rounds even the 7mm Mag, 300 Win Mag, or 338 Win Mag would have the necessary penetration to assure an immediate CNS stop.  Yes, you could get into exotics but within the realm of common rounds and platforms, the deck is stacked against you.  I believe, based upon decades of training, experience, and several on-duty lethal Force encounters, that exsanguination, rather than immediate trauma will be the most likely scenario in which the creature would be killed, and that in the interim, it would do a LOT of damage to the shooter.  I agree with Krantz that killing one WILL be the best way to prove it's existence to the so-called scientific community, I am just extremely doubtful of the practicality of it being successfully completed.  

This is why my thinking has shifted into the collection of multiple pieces of physical and digital evidence within the context of a single study trip.

I would be happy to share a couple of files.  I have a similar find on my property in northern Arizona where I found two tracks, and a torn up elk carcass with snapped off legs, and a shredded hide.  It was NOT a mountain lion or bear kill.

[7.62]

29 minutes ago, Frisco85132 said:

I would BE very pro kill, had I not been eye to eye with one at a distance of slightly less than ten yards on November 13th, 1993.  I am not convinced that a creature of that size, muscle density, presumed strength, and more importantly capability of rage at being injured would be stopped immediately, even by a large caliber bullet unless the shot was delivered directly to the central nervous system.  Additionally, the possibility of one or more other creatures attacking makes the tactical situation even more unsure.  I would absolutely use lethal force in defense of myself and others, but I don't want to be the one to necessarily "start the war".  Still, there IS that part of me that believes that if given the right circumstances I might just take that shot...but I AM conflicted, so I keep 9 of my 10 toes in the "no kill" camp.

Still, I am dubious that with the density of the creature's body, most hunting rounds even the 7mm Mag, 300 Win Mag, or 338 Win Mag would have the necessary penetration to assure an immediate CNS stop.  Yes, you could get into exotics but within the realm of common rounds and platforms, the deck is stacked against you.  I believe, based upon decades of training, experience, and several on-duty lethal Force encounters, that exsanguination, rather than immediate trauma will be the most likely scenario in which the creature would be killed, and that in the interim, it would do a LOT of damage to the shooter.  I agree with Krantz that killing one WILL be the best way to prove it's existence to the so-called scientific community, I am just extremely doubtful of the practicality of it being successfully completed.  

This is why my thinking has shifted into the collection of multiple pieces of physical and digital evidence within the context of a single study trip.

I would be happy to share a couple of files.  I have a similar find on my property in northern Arizona where I found two tracks, and a torn up elk carcass with snapped off legs, and a shredded hide.  It was NOT a mountain lion or bear kill.

Dude  if they are real they will go down with center mass hits with any of those calibers . 

 

There's no  guarantee on any dangerous game the animal will go down immediately being Bigfoot or grizzly 

Grizzlies have had their hearts exploded by a bullet  and still ran 100 yards .  I  would feel more than comfortable with a AR10 .308 as a rifle as my primary rifle if a bigfoot hunt was the objective .  I'm a no kill guy though and have posted that several times . I like the idea of darting one though if you could get close enough 

[Frisco85132]

It would go down....EVENTUALLY....

As I mentioned, the most likely COD would be bleeding out.  Unless a solid Central Nervous System hit turned the OFF switch immediately, there is going to be some very tense moments involved in trying to take one.  Just saying...but I have seen humans take multiple Central mass hits from a 7.62 and stay in the fight long enough to kill, maim, and injure, until they bled out.  Just betting the odds, I am saying that a clean RIGHT NOW drop would be highly unlikely.

When I am traveling, I have a Glock 20 in 10mm, and a my beloved FAL in 7.62, and very probably my Remington 1100 Tactical.  I feel like the 7.62 is marginal at best, but the 25 round mags, do provide a very efficient ballistic payload, a long with sustained fire capability with efficient mag changes if necessary.  But this is all conjecture and supposition based on comparitive lethality between known big game animals and predators juxtaposed with an extremely large bipedal hominem that could weigh in as much as 800-1000lbs.

Yes, darting one would be great in theory, but it still brings us back to getting it out or getting blood, hair, saliva, etc, properly documented before its pals decided to take umbrage with the fact that their buddy is down, and a group of hairless, tool using apes, are messing with it.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but I look at the whole thing from all sides, and ask..."What's the worst that can happen" and plan for that. 

[Frisco85132]

8 hours ago, 7.62 said:

Nuts No?

 

Just sounds like a good camping trip 

Which is what it would most likely end up being....but, I am definitely down for it.

[norseman]

1 hour ago, Frisco85132 said:

It would go down....EVENTUALLY....

As I mentioned, the most likely COD would be bleeding out.  Unless a solid Central Nervous System hit turned the OFF switch immediately, there is going to be some very tense moments involved in trying to take one.  Just saying...but I have seen humans take multiple Central mass hits from a 7.62 and stay in the fight long enough to kill, maim, and injure, until they bled out.  Just betting the odds, I am saying that a clean RIGHT NOW drop would be highly unlikely.

When I am traveling, I have a Glock 20 in 10mm, and a my beloved FAL in 7.62, and very probably my Remington 1100 Tactical.  I feel like the 7.62 is marginal at best, but the 25 round mags, do provide a very efficient ballistic payload, a long with sustained fire capability with efficient mag changes if necessary.  But this is all conjecture and supposition based on comparitive lethality between known big game animals and predators juxtaposed with an extremely large bipedal hominem that could weigh in as much as 800-1000lbs.

Yes, darting one would be great in theory, but it still brings us back to getting it out or getting blood, hair, saliva, etc, properly documented before its pals decided to take umbrage with the fact that their buddy is down, and a group of hairless, tool using apes, are messing with it.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but I look at the whole thing from all sides, and ask..."What's the worst that can happen" and plan for that. 

With a biopsy dart? You’re not touching the animal. You shoot it. The dart falls out. When it’s safe? You go retrieve it from the ground.

 

People need to do only what they are comfortable with. Hunting dangerous game is dangerous as you know. If I see one? I am shooting. After that? I will spend the rest of my life protecting the species. But we must get the species recognized to science. Thats what is important.

 

My fear with a biopsy dart is it getting hung up in a tree or a branch. We really don’t get a lot of long clear views in the Pac NW. Or something will go wrong with the DNA sample. And science will take type specimens anyhow after you prove the species real as a layman with a biopsy dart…. 

 

 

 

[norseman]

I think a guy could make one with a crossbow and a aluminum arrow and maybe a foam ball.

 

 

[7.62]

59 minutes ago, norseman said:

With a biopsy dart? You’re not touching the animal. You shoot it. The dart falls out. When it’s safe? You go retrieve it from the ground.

 

People need to do only what they are comfortable with. Hunting dangerous game is dangerous as you know. If I see one? I am shooting. After that? I will spend the rest of my life protecting the species. But we must get the species recognized to science. Thats what is important.

 

My fear with a biopsy dart is it getting hung up in a tree or a branch. We really don’t get a lot of long clear views in the Pac NW. Or something will go wrong with the DNA sample. And science will take type specimens anyhow after you prove the species real as a layman with a biopsy dart…. 

 

 

 

I like that idea a lot and would like to see it modified somehow where you could install inside a high power air rifle where you could get 75 or even 100 yard range that's accurate and effective . That's about the minimum distance I would want to be daring a Bigfoot 

Edited April 28 by 7.62

[7.62]

2 hours ago, Frisco85132 said:

It would go down....EVENTUALLY....

As I mentioned, the most likely COD would be bleeding out.  Unless a solid Central Nervous System hit turned the OFF switch immediately, there is going to be some very tense moments involved in trying to take one.  Just saying...but I have seen humans take multiple Central mass hits from a 7.62 and stay in the fight long enough to kill, maim, and injure, until they bled out.  Just betting the odds, I am saying that a clean RIGHT NOW drop would be highly unlikely.

When I am traveling, I have a Glock 20 in 10mm, and a my beloved FAL in 7.62, and very probably my Remington 1100 Tactical.  I feel like the 7.62 is marginal at best, but the 25 round mags, do provide a very efficient ballistic payload, a long with sustained fire capability with efficient mag changes if necessary.  But this is all conjecture and supposition based on comparitive lethality between known big game animals and predators juxtaposed with an extremely large bipedal hominem that could weigh in as much as 800-1000lbs.

Yes, darting one would be great in theory, but it still brings us back to getting it out or getting blood, hair, saliva, etc, properly documented before its pals decided to take umbrage with the fact that their buddy is down, and a group of hairless, tool using apes, are messing with it.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but I look at the whole thing from all sides, and ask..."What's the worst that can happen" and plan for that. 

I'm not all taking it as argumentative . I'm like you and can't see my self killing one unless my life or someone else life is in danger from one . I actually think trying to hunt one is kind of nuts anyways . I don't see my self  getting the drop on one but If my goal was to hunt one it would be from the campsite where possibly one might get curious enough to come and take a look at it from a far . Pick the right camp site where there is some field of view and install a thermal scope on my Barrett on a tripod . I think one hit center mass it's not going far .

Edited April 28 by 7.62

[norseman]

1 hour ago, 7.62 said:

I like that idea a lot and would like to see it modified somehow where you could install inside a high power air rifle where you could get 75 or even 100 yard range that's accurate and effective . That's about the minimum distance I would want to be daring a Bigfoot 

 Crossbows are there.

 

Just leave the tip insert out so it’s just aluminum tube. Sharpen the edge. And drill a hole through a small foam ball and glue it 2 inches back from the end of the shaft. That will limit penetration.
 

It’s essentially a biopsy dart.

 

[norseman]

Easy to get aluminum crossbow bolts.

 

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/1019838584?pid=227156&utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Archery+-+Arrows%2C+Bolts+and+Components&utm_content=227156&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwxLKxBhA7EiwAXO0R0GvErb_T6LZmwArmxiqHkD_IygCBfNJts_U_LkdcroN-Aow6pRdlfhoC3qYQAvD_BwE

[Huntster]

20 hours ago, Frisco85132 said:

.........The thought is that being in a camp, for an extended period of time with cooking, music, a TV playing movies (via satellite internet and DVD), the Sierra Sounds, recorded kids and women, and maybe even other primates would elicit curiosity or even a desire on the part of the Bigfoot in the area to want us gone from their territory and evoke harassment from them.  In other words, some form of contact that could be documented via any technology available..........
 

.........GOAL:  Gather, sustain, curate, and present evidence, both physical, and digital, of an extant relict hominem in North America.  Obviously, gathering a specimen would be the ideal, but I am a "no kill just to prove it exists" type.......

 

........Don't hold back........

 

So return contact with 225 grains @ 2850 fps isn't approved?

[Huntster]

7 hours ago, 7.62 said:

.........Grizzlies have had their hearts exploded by a bullet  and still ran 100 yards....... 

 

As long as they're running away, let them run. They'll die.