One to Ten

[norseman]

7 hours ago, xspider1 said:

I wouldn't say that Roger and Bob tricked Patty.  I would say that their perseverance and skills combined good info. and a significant about of with luck just paid off that day.   

Sure. They had to put themselves in a position for success.

 

But call it what you like? Patty did not want to be seen and yet she was seen. Tricked, deceived, unaware, whatever….

 

And yes, I agree wholeheartedly with Twist. Forest creatures do not equate a horse to a human often. She probably thought Elk were approaching the creek or maybe she was completely unaware at all.

 

🤷‍♂️

[norseman]

1 hour ago, idlehour30 said:

It all depends on how you classify 'intelligence'.

 

Our idea of intelligence is heavily influenced by our love affair with technology. We shaped rocks to cut meat, put mankind on the lunar surface and now toy with driver-less cars and Artificial General Intelligence. What's our biggest ever achievement as a species? It's usually expressed through a technological lens. Except, we now rely too heavily on technology - so much so that skills and abilities we once possessed in abundance have evolutionarily withered and atrophied through obsolescence. Pick a random person off the city street, pop them in an environment without technology. I suspect a high percentage would not last more than a few weeks at most.

 

What if Homo Sapien Sapiens hadn't turned away from nature? What if evolution had greatly heightened and enhanced our senses, intuitions and abilities over a few million years instead of dulling them? Maybe a lot of Sasquatch supposed 'otherworldly' behaviour would actually just be our mundane every day reality. Putting a Sasquatch in a tower block in the middle of a big city - may be a decent premise for a 'snakes on a plane' sequel and probably wouldn't end well. But put an average human in a wild, natural environment - in terrain we might consider to be ordinarily impenetrable or inaccessible to us and the concept of intelligence gets flipped on its head. They could literally run rings around us, and we'd look pretty dumb.

 

Still - distant remnants of those skills are buried deep in us. Examples of lengthy and mostly undetected existence away from modern society do occur, like Ishi of the Yahi tribe - or perhaps Hiroo Onoda after WWII. But these are the exception rather than the rule. 

 

As for Patty - given the PGF is such a rare situation, I've always suspected that she might be impaired in some way - hard of hearing or with poor sight maybe. Some handicap that put her more at risk of discovery than usual. I've always quite liked how Cliff Barackman tells it - with Patty squatting on the hillside after discovery, looking down on the two men and watching and learning as she keenly observed them filming her tracks and pouring plaster. That's possibly the last time her tracks were ever found.

 

 

I think it goes much deeper than this. When white men first landed on this continent? Most of the inhabitants were living a Stone Age existence. 
 

And yet even they called Sasquatch the wild man of the woods. He was something different even from them. Something older, something even more primordial than the Indian. Sasquatch didn’t make tools, weapons, fire or even clothes. He wasn’t even on our trajectory 500,000 years ago. When the first stone tools were made. 
 

I don’t think Sasquatch needs intelligence to be the hide and seek champion. A Cougar is and has been the hide and seek champion of my life of spending time in the woods. Even making a loop in snow and finding Cougar tracks in your hour old tracks. And yet Sasquatch doesn’t leave many of those either….. So how much of it is intelligence? And how much of it is being a very rare species living in the vastness of North America. Sprinkle in some stealth and cunning? An intelligence certainly smarter than a feline? It makes good sense to me.

[Foxhill]

On 7/31/2024 at 4:21 PM, Somerset said:

On an intelligence scale of 1 to 10 man being a 10 what number would you give Bigfoot?

Somewhere on par with the great apes, any higher and they would be in charge and not us.

 But if it's a number game 0 since I don't believe they exist, but hey they're as intelligent as one wants to pretend, they are.

[Twist]

21 hours ago, norseman said:

I don’t think Sasquatch needs intelligence to be the hide and seek champion. A Cougar is and has been the hide and seek champion of my life of spending time in the woods. Even making a loop in snow and finding Cougar tracks in your hour old tracks. And yet Sasquatch doesn’t leave many of those either….. So how much of it is intelligence? And how much of it is being a very rare species living in the vastness of North America. Sprinkle in some stealth and cunning? An intelligence certainly smarter than a feline? It makes good sense to me.

 

Survival instincts and survival intelligence are very different and should not be confused.   One is pre-programmed, the other is pre-planned.    Nature vs. nurture  for lack of a better analogy.  

[NorCalWitness]

On 8/8/2024 at 7:56 PM, norseman said:

I think it goes much deeper than this. When white men first landed on this continent? Most of the inhabitants were living a Stone Age existence. 
 

And yet even they called Sasquatch the wild man of the woods. He was something different even from them. Something older, something even more primordial than the Indian. Sasquatch didn’t make tools, weapons, fire or even clothes. He wasn’t even on our trajectory 500,000 years ago. When the first stone tools were made. 
 

I don’t think Sasquatch needs intelligence to be the hide and seek champion. A Cougar is and has been the hide and seek champion of my life of spending time in the woods. Even making a loop in snow and finding Cougar tracks in your hour old tracks. And yet Sasquatch doesn’t leave many of those either….. So how much of it is intelligence? And how much of it is being a very rare species living in the vastness of North America. Sprinkle in some stealth and cunning? An intelligence certainly smarter than a feline? It makes good sense to me.

There are a lot of cougars mounted in people's man caves. There are no sasquatch. Not the same thing at all. 

[norseman]

1 hour ago, NorCalWitness said:

There are a lot of cougars mounted in people's man caves. There are no sasquatch. Not the same thing at all. 

That you know of……

 

No it’s not the same thing. Only similar. 
 

We know about many extent archaic species of hominids by only teeth and small bone parts. Denisovans it’s a pinkie finger bone.

 

Whats sitting on a museum shelf somewhere?

 

Anyhow. The point I was trying to make is that a feline such as a cougar is super stealthy without the intelligence of a Homo Sapien. Most of those Cougar ended up on the wall not because of humans but because of hounds.
 

 

 

 

 

[NorCalWitness]

32 minutes ago, norseman said:

That you know of……

 

No it’s not the same thing. Only similar. 
 

We know about many extent archaic species of hominids by only teeth and small bone parts. Denisovans it’s a pinkie finger bone.

 

Whats sitting on a museum shelf somewhere?

 

Anyhow. The point I was trying to make is that a feline such as a cougar is super stealthy without the intelligence of a Homo Sapien. Most of those Cougar ended up on the wall not because of humans but because of hounds.
 

 

 

 

 

Any cougar that is on a wall is because of humans. Not because of hounds. Because the humans trained the hounds and took them out hunting. People have tried the same with Sasquatch, still not any of them mounted for all to see anywhere. Cougars are tiny compared to a sasquatch. They also get cougars on trail cams all the time. But not the big fellas. 

[norseman]

7 minutes ago, NorCalWitness said:

Any cougar that is on a wall is because of humans. Not because of hounds. Because the humans trained the hounds and took them out hunting. People have tried the same with Sasquatch, still not any of them mounted for all to see anywhere. Cougars are tiny compared to a sasquatch. They also get cougars on trail cams all the time. But not the big fellas. 

 

And why is that NorCal? Have you ever trained hounds? Do you have any Sasquatch scent I can soak on my drag to train my hounds? No.

 

And the people that have supposedly tried with Sasquatch end up with a cowering dog that won’t track. I have no idea how they train a search and rescue dog to track on a leash.
 

But with redbones, blue ticks, etc you train them on a drag with the scent of the animal you’re targeting, when they are puppies. And if they run anything else? They are punished. It’s called breaking them from running trash. So you don’t start out on a Cougar track and then end up running a deer for 30 miles. Because somewhere in the chase a deer crossed the Cougar track.

 

Also? The game is to tree the animal your chasing. Most black bears, most cougar, most raccoon when stressed and chased? Tree. If they turn and fight depending on how far the chase is and how big the animal is? You could have a lot of dead dogs. Thats why running Grizzly Bear never worked well. Cuz a Griz wouldn’t tree. If you can get there with a gun quick? So be it. But if your dogs are two hours in front of you? Your probably gonna lose all your dogs.

 

What does the size of the animal have to do with tracking?

 

They also get Sasquatch on trail cameras, and iPhones and 16mm film. Nobody believes any of it.

 

 

[NorCalWitness]

1 hour ago, norseman said:

 

And why is that NorCal? Have you ever trained hounds? Do you have any Sasquatch scent I can soak on my drag to train my hounds? No.

 

And the people that have supposedly tried with Sasquatch end up with a cowering dog that won’t track. I have no idea how they train a search and rescue dog to track on a leash.
 

But with redbones, blue ticks, etc you train them on a drag with the scent of the animal you’re targeting, when they are puppies. And if they run anything else? They are punished. It’s called breaking them from running trash. So you don’t start out on a Cougar track and then end up running a deer for 30 miles. Because somewhere in the chase a deer crossed the Cougar track.

 

Also? The game is to tree the animal your chasing. Most black bears, most cougar, most raccoon when stressed and chased? Tree. If they turn and fight depending on how far the chase is and how big the animal is? You could have a lot of dead dogs. Thats why running Grizzly Bear never worked well. Cuz a Griz wouldn’t tree. If you can get there with a gun quick? So be it. But if your dogs are two hours in front of you? Your probably gonna lose all your dogs.

 

What does the size of the animal have to do with tracking?

 

They also get Sasquatch on trail cameras, and iPhones and 16mm film. Nobody believes any of it.

 

 

People saying that a cougar is as elusive as a sasquatch are out of their minds. It's not even close. You've proven nothing except that you love typing overly verbose answers on a forum and that you have far too much free time on your hands. 

[Huntster]

2 minutes ago, NorCalWitness said:

People saying that a cougar is as elusive as a sasquatch are out of their minds. It's not even close............

I think they are..........but there are also more cougars out there.

[norseman]

4 minutes ago, NorCalWitness said:

People saying that a cougar is as elusive as a sasquatch are out of their minds. It's not even close. You've proven nothing except that you love typing overly verbose answers on a forum and that you have far too much free time on your hands. 

You responded to me. I am sorry you have NO CLUE about what your talking about concerning hound hunting or cougar hunting or anything else.

 

🤷‍♂️

[Incorrigible1]

5 minutes ago, NorCalWitness said:

People saying that a cougar is as elusive as a sasquatch are out of their minds. It's not even close. You've proven nothing except that you love typing overly verbose answers on a forum and that you have far too much free time on your hands. 

 

Did somebody piss in your Wheaties this morning?

 

Jeez, lighten up.

[NorCalWitness]

3 minutes ago, Huntster said:

I think they are..........but there are also more cougars out there.

 

2 minutes ago, norseman said:

You responded to me. I am sorry you have NO CLUE about what your talking about concerning hound hunting or cougar hunting or anything else.

 

🤷‍♂️

How do you hunt in clown shoes and a wig? I'd love to know. 

[norseman]

1 minute ago, NorCalWitness said:

 

 

3 minutes ago, NorCalWitness said:

 

How do you hunt in clown shoes and a wig? I'd love to know. 

Name one of the best hound collars on the market….. I will wait.

[NorCalWitness]

21 minutes ago, norseman said:

 

Name one of the best hound collars on the market….. I will wait.

To be honest, I think you are a complete psychopath who wants to shoot and kill something that countless people have described as nearly human. You can keep stroking your gun barrel to the idea of hunting one of these creatures, but you won't ever get a single shot on one because they are far smarter than you give them credit for. Thats a good thing in my book. Your ego is involved that that is preventing you from knowledge. You have a long way to go and I doubt you will get there. Hard to teach an old dog new tricks. Best of luck.