If You Believe In Bigfoot, Do You Believe He Is Closer To Humans Or Animals

[Guest MikeG]

Susi,

I have never heard it said before that a human isn't an animal, so forgive me............but I'm battling to understand what the problem is.

We are a primate, evolved from earlier primates which evolved from a co-ancestor of us and chimps. We are flesh and blood, as are all animals, and we have DNA controlling our cells like every other animal on the planet. All living things on the planet are divided into two basic groups.......animals and plants. There is no argument that we are a very special animal indeed, but, for the life of me, I can't see how we can be thought of as anything but an animal. We're certainly not a plant, and that is the only other choice.

60% of our DNA is the same as a fruit fly, and our DNA, and our bodies, are made up of exactly the same building blocks as every other animal on the planet. Our skeleton is built to the same basic design as that of a mouse, a bat, a dog, even an elephant and a whale. So are our brains, only ours have developed enormous faculties recently.

None of this in any way is putting humans down. We are wonderful and special and different........but we are still an animal.

Mike

[southernyahoo]

Something to consider Susi,

You were not born with all the atributes we consider human other than your biological makeup. You were born with the ability learn, through the process of culture. Animals like chimps can be taught many "human" abilities and even surpass us in some tasks. Conversely, in the case with ferral children living in isolation, humans don't develope so many "human" atributes naturally, they have to be nurtured. So the line between humans and animals isn't so sharp and defined or black and white but fuzzy and grey. Thats exactly where bigfoot stands IMO.

[Guest]

Southern yahoo- or it could be that as Richard Stubstad said in his hypothosis that we have developed our left brain more and the Sas have developed their right (side)of the brain more. ptangier

[Guest MikeG]

I think that left brain/ right brain thing has been shown to be a bit of ........erm.....wishful thinking........by brain scanning techniques.

Mike

[Guest]

Susi,

I have never heard it said before that a human isn't an animal, so forgive me............but I'm battling to understand what the problem is.

We are a primate, evolved from earlier primates which evolved from a co-ancestor of us and chimps. We are flesh and blood, as are all animals, and we have DNA controlling our cells like every other animal on the planet. All living things on the planet are divided into two basic groups.......animals and plants. There is no argument that we are a very special animal indeed, but, for the life of me, I can't see how we can be thought of as anything but an animal. We're certainly not a plant, and that is the only other choice.

60% of our DNA is the same as a fruit fly, and our DNA, and our bodies, are made up of exactly the same building blocks as every other animal on the planet. Our skeleton is built to the same basic design as that of a mouse, a bat, a dog, even an elephant and a whale. So are our brains, only ours have developed enormous faculties recently.

None of this in any way is putting humans down. We are wonderful and special and different........but we are still an animal.

Mike

Yes, Mike, We are the animal that talks, writes, has heart surgery and trained people who do it, we may be animals, but we are above all of the other animals. We are human animals, but we are first human.

I think that left brain/ right brain thing has been shown to be a bit of ........erm.....wishful thinking........by brain scanning techniques.

Mike

:wub: to you Mike!!

Thank you Sir..

[Guest]

Interesting viewpoints on here. Great to read.

I'll share a few of my thoughts too in a general way rather than quote some folks. First off. Any kind of animal or past human type creatures like neanderthal etc. have become extinct because they COULDN'T adapt their environment to their survival. Survival is the word missing here I think. If BF creatures exist, which I think they do. They have somehow adapted to their environment, and done so with our technology even interfering with their daily lives around them. According to my reading stories etc. on BF, these creatures blend in with their environment so well they can survive, and have survived hundreds to thousands of years maybe.

I think that the BF creature has more human qualities than ape. I think they do have a family structure and a moral code, and I think they do have some skills with tools and language. I think we as humans add our own feelings and human characteristics to animals activities and their reactions we see, that it is sometimes not true what we think we are looking at when an animal does something. We mis-interpret it. I also think that animals do feel grief, fear, excitement, and a few other emotions. But as far as creating things. No, they can't do that. That to me is a spiritual ability and creativity for the future. That is what I think we are anyway. A spiritual being, that can create things and adapt our environment to suit our survival. I think we are encroaching on BF woodlands, and that is why more are seen today than years ago. their land mass is shrinking fast.

A BF creature creating anything for the future besides babies? I don't think so. I think they are in the now time only and days are just another one they wait for to happen. To think of the future, I don't think that a BF is capable of it as I have never heard of a BF planting crops or harvesting them and storing them for the future. That is what I think separates us from the creatures of the earth. We create the future and can think about tomorrow. We can build a home, and create technology to help us survive easier from the elements and adapt. Yes.... Our high tech technology has been used to destroy others instead of helping them. That to me is non-survival for mankind as a whole, and we are in danger as we speak, because there are enough bombs on this planet to destroy every last one of us today.

I also see that with the advanced technology in today's age, our spiritual awareness is faltering, and that is the cause of the destruction of mankind. The moral codes we once had are long gone. No manners, no consideration for others, it is a materialistic world that this has become and who has what, is what really matters to some. But, the subject is still, 'Is BF an animal or a man'.

I think, from some stories I have read and heard, they are sometimes more of mankind as a whole than we are, and maybe that is what we were supposed to be at one time, a BF... and we evolved out of it somehow. Who knows.... But, that is my opinion.

Edited January 30, 2012 by gail

[Guest HucksterFoot]

I also think that animals do feel grief, fear, excitement, and a few other emotions. But as far as creating things. No, they can't do that.

So, Bowerbirds don't count? ..and this is just one of many examples. :]

None of this in any way is putting humans down. We are wonderful and special and different........but we are still an animal.

Anthropocentric comes to mind. :]

[Guest MikeG]

So, Bowerbirds don't count? ..and this is just one of many examples. :]

Bowerbirds......great example......... I would use them as a response to anyone who said animals don't do art. The incredible builders for me are termites.

Anthropocentric comes to mind. :]

I hope you have read my other comments in the thread? I'd be rather surprised to have them, or my view in general, described as anthropocentric.

Mike

Edited January 30, 2012 by MikeG

[Guest HucksterFoot]

Bowerbirds......great example......... I would use them as a response to anyone who said animals don't do art. The incredible builders for me are termites.

Susi, None of this in any way is putting humans down. We are wonderful and special and different........but we are still an animal.

Anthropocentric comes to mind. :]

I hope you have read my other comments in the thread? I'd be rather surprised to have them, or my view in general, described as anthropocentric.

Mike

It wasn't directed at your view. You don't come across as exaggerating the differences between us and others to point out how wonderful, special and separate we are.

Edited January 30, 2012 by HucksterFoot

[Guest]

Susi,

I have never heard it said before that a human isn't an animal, so forgive me............but I'm battling to understand what the problem is.

We are a primate, evolved from earlier primates which evolved from a co-ancestor of us and chimps. We are flesh and blood, as are all animals, and we have DNA controlling our cells like every other animal on the planet. All living things on the planet are divided into two basic groups.......animals and plants. There is no argument that we are a very special animal indeed, but, for the life of me, I can't see how we can be thought of as anything but an animal. We're certainly not a plant, and that is the only other choice.

60% of our DNA is the same as a fruit fly, and our DNA, and our bodies, are made up of exactly the same building blocks as every other animal on the planet. Our skeleton is built to the same basic design as that of a mouse, a bat, a dog, even an elephant and a whale. So are our brains, only ours have developed enormous faculties recently.

None of this in any way is putting humans down. We are wonderful and special and different........but we are still an animal.

Mike

Mike, I don't believe that we human's evolved, we were always here and we were human from the beginning, otherwise, show me the other soon to be humans? We may have looked small and scrawny but we had a brain that could achieve greatness.

Animals do not have that ability.

Edited to add:Animals will *never* have that ability.

Edited January 30, 2012 by SweetSusiq

[Guest]

If I've said this before someone let me know ''oldtimers'' has set in

The biggest problem I'm seeing with them being ''human'' is the cultural bias we have. It wasn't till the Eastern European migration to America their existance was denied and declared ''impossible''.

Eastern Europe, had no problems with the Almasty/Almas, the Native inhabitants here didn't have a problem with it. Somewhere in Western Europe there seems to be where the ''disconnect'' is.

From the Urals east to Vietnam large hairy bipedal creatures are taken for granted, and were here in North America as well.

So I'm going to propose we have a Euro-centric cultural bias that is both irrational and nonsensical.

[Guest]

Bigfoot has been here also, and they were originally Bigfoot, but science named their remains that have been discovered something else,and one day we will probably find out that something thought extinct isn't.

If I've said this before someone let me know ''oldtimers'' has set in

The biggest problem I'm seeing with them being ''human'' is the cultural bias we have. It wasn't till the Eastern European migration to America their existance was denied and declared ''impossible''.

Eastern Europe, had no problems with the Almasty/Almas, the Native inhabitants here didn't have a problem with it. Somewhere in Western Europe there seems to be where the ''disconnect'' is.

From the Urals east to Vietnam large hairy bipedal creatures are taken for granted, and were here in North America as well.

So I'm going to propose we have a Euro-centric cultural bias that is both irrational and nonsensical.

Simply :Yes!

[Guest HucksterFoot]

Um, okay. Please don't take offense, but after reading that entire paragraph, I'm not sure what you're trying to say exactly. Sounds like it was quoted from a spiritual book of some sort. As I said earlier, whether we humans like it or not, nature IS nature. And as hard as we try to see the compassion in it, if a bleeding baby bird falls from a nest and a hungry jackal happens upon that baby bird...you know he's going to kill it for food! There is no "but" or "maybe" about it. To me, that is not compassion. That is animal law - which is lawless-ness.

It's called reality; it's not evil, it is something we would also do if we wanted to survive. There is no "but" or "maybe" about it - we consume other animals.

Again, what does "right" or "wrong" have to do with it? Animals, and that includes the human omnivore species, kill other animals for needed nutrition to survive. Do you think evil, right or wrong is why a shark tries to eat you?

Animals have no concept of "right" and "wrong", therefore they just don't care who (or what) they kill.

Well, I can't imagine how pack animals manage to succeed then.

No punishments exist for their wrongs. So how can they know what is wrong?

I suggest you look into the social codes of conduct of social pack animals e.g., wolves and coyotes.

Animals are very unpredictable sometimes. Why would an orca whale try to drown his trainer one day? After years of being with that trainer. Why would a chimpanzee tear the face of his beloved owner after she too, raised him since he was a baby?

You should investigate why, instead of drawing conclusions based on lack of knowledge. People and other animals can be very unpredictable and act erratically; especially when enclosed in an unnatural, restrictive and sometimes abusive environment.

Animals don't reason like we do. They just DO, like impulsive teenagers (only much less intelligent) who act without thinking of the consequences.

So, now you're saying animals can be like humans? At least like some.

When I say we are superior, that is simply a fact. Speaking in terms of brain power, we are the dominant species on this planet. We could wipe out every species if we so desired. What other animal (not insect plague, but animal) could do that? Animals cannot begin to imagine how complex a human is. And THAT is what I mean when I say we are superior. Intellectually and in most other ways aside from physical, YES. Humans are superior. I think many people would agree with me.

Superior? Like your question "Mixture of both? That kind of superior?

[Guest]

It's called reality; it's not evil, it is something we would also do if we wanted to survive. There is no "but" or "maybe" about it - we consume other animals.

Again, what does "right" or "wrong" have to do with it? Animals, and that includes the human omnivore species, kill other animals for needed nutrition to survive. Do you think evil, right or wrong is why a shark tries to eat you?...I suggest you look into the social codes of conduct of social pack animals e.g., wolves and coyotes...You should investigate why, instead of drawing conclusions based on lack of knowledge. People and other animals can be very unpredictable and act erratically; especially when enclosed in an unnatural, restrictive and sometimes abusive environment...

HucksterFoot, some good responses to TwighlightFan's comments. You responded in a sense for me (as TF's comments were a response to mine) and in a sense the way I would have responded so thank you. My earlier discussions with TF taught me that trying to evoke deeper thought was not really going to go anywhere and this is why I had not myself responded to TF

Since I am now slightly involved in a post responding to Twighlight Fans response to my earlier posts, Ill continue just a teeny bit....

Twighlight Fan, as you have gained your perspective on animals in the wild from wildlife documentaries focused on animals killing each other (and these are far from a comprehensive or well rounded view of life in the wild) it would seem to me that the only thing to open your mind would be to go live in a wildlife sanctury as a volunteer. There you will begin to see the amazing consciousness of other beings, see how all creatures can be creative, heroic, compassionate, responsible, caring and have deep loving bonds (not exclusive to humans) - and you will also see how humans who have thought themselves above all life, have been so destructive.

Each creature has something unique which individualises them from others. All these individual traits are needed to make a fullfilling world. I would think the unique capability of humans or perhaps humanoids, is reflection. Humans (human animals) hold on to what they believe to be static memories of past incidence and project past fears or hopes etc into the present and the future rather than just being in the present. This is perhaps our uniqueness. As for creativity yes we are magnificently creative but have you ever seen the wonder of a spiders web? Why cant you imagine the spider taking joy in its creation?

Now I am aware you will answer with the same, you saw it on a documentary and thats how it is mentality. I am aware that if a person doesnt naturally feel questions about the deeper life of other creatures or the nature of equal importance for all life, then it is not likely they are going to see the wonder of life too soon. Still, perhaps it will sit in the back of your mind that another human is telling you this is not a world of survival of the fittest, it is a world of intricate and universal cooperation.

Each being needs the other to survive, the only way for comprehensive fullfillment in this world is for each to sponsor and care for all life. All animals know this innately however humans are able to try to override that which they instinctively know. Non human animals are fully aware that to kill everything is to kill themselves. Indigenous communities of humans throughout the world were fully aware that to kill everything they would kill themselves. All beings come into this world knowing that they need all others for their existance and knowing they are deeply connected to all. Nothing is born an enemy to something else. If though a child is born and then taught that it has to be superior to something else to have meaning, it will look for any means to think itself superior. Only humans teach their children they only have meaning due to ticking of a list of certain merits - everything else knows the grace of its being. Only humans teach their children that there are the superior and the inferior and then go about raising the child to be accepted within some heirachy of superiority or indeed inferiority. Nature is a symphony of consciousness all equal and all vital to the harmony of being. Nothing is less or more than the other.

The unique trait for human animals seems to be the use of reflection (though obviously many dont use this deeply ) - but this doesnt make humans superior. Once you have respect for all life you see that each type of conciousness is essential to fullfill us. You talk of humans being superior because we could kill everything (someone else said that too), yet killing everything is actually a madness - why does the ability to kill everything make something superior? How is it in the 21st century there are humans who think the sword is mightier than the pen?

Edited January 31, 2012 by Encounter

[Guest MikeG]

Only humans teach their children they only have meaning due to ticking of a list of certain merits - everything else knows the grace of its being. Only humans teach their children that there are the superior and the inferior and then go about raising the child to be accepted within some heirachy of superiority or indeed inferiority. Nature is a symphony of consciousness all equal and all vital to the harmony of being. Nothing is less or more than the other.

Sorry........me again!

This is, if I'm reading it right, a misrepresentation of how nature is. Most communal animals are extremely hierarchical. "Pecking order" comes from birds, and who gets first go at the food, but all social animals do the same to some extent. Every single male spotted hyaena is lower in the hierachy of a clan than every single female, for instance. Every single monkey, baboon, chimp etc is very aware of where it sits in the scheme of things, who it it superior to, and who it is inferior to.

I apologise if I have missed your point, but if I haven't, be very careful of assigning charqacteristics to animals which they don't actually have.

Mike