BobbyO Posted July 25, 2014 SSR Team Posted July 25, 2014 I think wood knocks could be a simplistic way of intelligent animals to communicate, like Humans and Sasquatches.
Guest Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) I have found consistantly that a single woodknock is often done as humans arrive "notification" somewhere near them and also a single knock right after the humans leave an area as a possible "all clear". Leaving behind a recorder and driving off can catch this as well as dropping off someone in the dark and driving away. Last year I was with some folks at a spot behind a dam and had left my dome lights and all others off for a good time and a fella that was fishing came up tp where we were parked and drove off after dark with his lod pick up hitting the long dam road up and I actually predicted a single departure knock and just about as I counted down 3-2-1- a knock went off ! So how is that for repeatable a testable idea or hypothesis ? "The Engima of Wood Knocks" Edited July 25, 2014 by GEARMAN
southernyahoo Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 You do learn alot from audio survielance. The intel you get on an area when the living things there think you have left and can no longer perceive their activities is quite illuminating. You might even surreptitiously record someone elses encounter hey Gearman?
SWWASAS Posted July 25, 2014 BFF Patron Posted July 25, 2014 I have noticed when I arrive at an active area and slam my truck door, sometimes I get a single knock in return. I know people that knock but I choose not to do something that I really do not know the meaning for. The single knock could be "hey I heard you, this is where I am". In their case I do not think they need any more than that. If they know your direction, they can move in to investigate or move away as it suits them. Since one of my goals is daylight photography, I choose not to announce I am present in an area by making any more sound than I have to just moving around. So I don't knock. Once detected by BF, I really do not think I have any chance of photography. Once they know a human is in the area, then their top priority seems to be avoidance or careful surveillance. At one point when I thought the locals were buddies, I figured they would eventually show themselves but since the last couple of encounters have been intimidation events, I have given up on that. It seems they know me better than I know them. Perhaps they feel hunted. Maybe it is time to find another research area and start over with a new clan.
LeafTalker Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 SWWASSP, it saddens me to hear you might give up on this particular bunch.... My guess is that the intimidation tactics are related to your use of the camera, and that, if you stopped using the camera -- even just temporarily -- you would see a change in behavior. Wouldn't that be an interesting experiment, to see if they get friendlier again, when you leave the camera behind? You don't have to abandon the camera forever, but it would be a good basic litmus test of your true relationship with them. It would tell you something about their true feelings about you. Isn't it worth knowing that? Their true feelings? And then, when you knew how they really felt, you could re-evaluate/re-think the camera thing from a position of greater knowledge. If they continued to be grumpy, that would certainly affirm that starting over with another clan might be a good plan. If they stop being grumpy, well, then, that's an interesting situation, isn't it? If they stop being grumpy at that point, it might be worth thinking longer and harder about ways of working with them that pleased you both. I don't think you're ever going to find a bunch of BF who are publicity hounds. They're all going to get turned off by the camera, at some point. So the real question becomes, who likes you enough to possibly start overlooking this behavior of yours? This gang might be that gang. I think they really like you. Not all BF like all people. The connections you've made might be really precious, and worth a little extra thinking to preserve. Just my thoughts. 1
SWWASAS Posted July 27, 2014 BFF Patron Posted July 27, 2014 Leaftalker: I never have a camera in view so if the BF know I have it, they can read my mind and that is another issue. So I don't think the camera has anything to do with it. The last encounter, the zapping one, was the last contact I had with them. The area that happened had just been clear cut and I think that might be why it happened. If a human is present frequently in an area, then suddenly it is clear cut, then they might think I had something to do with it. I have found no prints or anything that leads me to believe that they are even there any more. There is so little cover any more because of the logging, that I think they have moved out of the area. Last year in July there were a lot of elk tracks, so that was probably something that kept the BF in the area. This year I am lucky to find one elk track when I go into the same area. Last year the same trail looked like an elk freeway because there were so many tracks. So without cover and prey I think they would likely move further out. So I don't know what is going on, but certainly if I am not finding any sign they are still around then I need to find another location. Maybe I will look at Google Earth and see where I would move if I were forced out of an area. I was quite surprised that they were that close in to begin with. I think it perhaps ancestral grounds or something that took a lot to drive them off. The reason I even started doing field work in the area was that in the late 1990s there were many reports of vocalizations from the mountain and a smattering of road crossing sighting reports. That led to a footprint find and me working the surrounding area.
LeafTalker Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 An "elk freeway"! LOL. I don't think they associate you with the clear-cutting. I'm sure they were around to witness the clear-cutting -- but hidden, of course -- so my wager would be that they know you had nothing to do with it. (And yes, they can read your mind.) But if you're getting the sense they've moved on (and what you've observed about the area makes that seem like a logical conclusion), I guess that makes the whole camera thing moot. I hope you have good luck with another area, if you decide to do that Google Earth thing! Keep us posted.
clubbedfoot Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 Woods knocks could be more complicated than appear to the untrained ear....e.g., more akin to Morse code.... 1
SWWASAS Posted July 28, 2014 BFF Patron Posted July 28, 2014 The number of knocks is significant for sure. Beyond that I don't see how any information other than position and presence could be transmitted in a single knock. More information requires more knocks than a single one. The infra sound thing may also be used. When I detected it, I was getting two pulses close together repeated every 15 or 20 seconds for several minutes. SInce the BF had me under surveillance it was not being used for any sort of sonar locating purpose so it had to be communication of some sort. Possibly a warning for other BF in the area that humans cannot normally hear. So much we don't know because we need to document and compare encounter data to determine patterns and try to relate that to behavior.
Guest Crowlogic Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) Growing up I had lots of woodland around me. In the spring when the sap would begin rising back into the trees the woods would be alive with assorted snap crackle and pops. Some of the more dramatic ones could sound like firearm or fireworks. Now consider tree A giving off a loud pop then a ways off tree B giving off a pop and a person can believe that the pop from nearby tree A has been answered by further off tree B. Easy if desired to attribute it to BF. However the reality is that two trees were simply coming back to life from the winter. These sap rising pops could be heard at a rate of about 10 a minute at the peak of the sap rising. All of us who grew up there knew exactly what was going on, no mystery at all. Edited July 30, 2014 by Crowlogic
SWWASAS Posted July 30, 2014 BFF Patron Posted July 30, 2014 I hear tree noises all the time too. Single knocks can be anything, trees falling over, branches breaking off, etc. But the likelihood of a single knock answered by two knocks from a different location makes it less probable it is a natural occurrence. Given all the humans in the woods doing knocks now, I would be far more inclined to think it human than anything now after Finding BF popularized the practice of knocking. That is one reason I have never done it. The other reason is that if BF does not know where I am, I really do not want to give my location away.
LeafTalker Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Your biology lesson is fascinating, Crowlogic. So I guess the sap just keeps rising all year long, is that right? During the summer, the fall, and the winter, too? When all the other wood knocks are happening?
BobbyO Posted July 31, 2014 SSR Team Posted July 31, 2014 Growing up I had lots of woodland around me. In the spring when the sap would begin rising back into the trees the woods would be alive with assorted snap crackle and pops. Some of the more dramatic ones could sound like firearm or fireworks. Now consider tree A giving off a loud pop then a ways off tree B giving off a pop and a person can believe that the pop from nearby tree A has been answered by further off tree B. Easy if desired to attribute it to BF. However the reality is that two trees were simply coming back to life from the winter. These sap rising pops could be heard at a rate of about 10 a minute at the peak of the sap rising. All of us who grew up there knew exactly what was going on, no mystery at all. If they make the knocking sounds when coming back to life from winter, that would make it being Spring right ? WA State via the SSR. 39 reports of wood knocking. 18% in Spring, 28% in Summer, 38% in Fall, 15% in Winter.
BobbyO Posted July 31, 2014 SSR Team Posted July 31, 2014 Got to admit I'm not sure about that Crow Logic the more I think about it.. "No mystery at all as the reality was the trees popping coming back from winter" would mean that Spring should have at least the highest % of reports if not all, but it hasn't and isn't anywhere near close to being.
BobbyO Posted August 19, 2014 SSR Team Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) I've wondered for a few years that wood knocks may not always be wood knocks and thought they could be hand claps, which isn't uncommon in the primate world where comms are concerned. http://news.softpedia.com/news/Female-Gorillas-Clap-Hands-to-Control-the-Group-111181.shtml Edited August 19, 2014 by BobbyO
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