Somerset Posted July 15 Posted July 15 What's the possibility that the US government knowingly allows Bigfoot to harvest humans within government controlled forests, national parks etc ? Hidden in plain sight because as we know the missing are not recorded, is someone turning a blind eye as long as the harvesting (mainly) stays withing boundaries and acceptable numbers?
norseman Posted July 16 Admin Posted July 16 20 hours ago, Somerset said: What's the possibility that the US government knowingly allows Bigfoot to harvest humans within government controlled forests, national parks etc ? Hidden in plain sight because as we know the missing are not recorded, is someone turning a blind eye as long as the harvesting (mainly) stays withing boundaries and acceptable numbers? The Dennis Martin case is an eye opener. We cannot prove anything but there is definitely obstruction from the Park Service over missing people. Just asking for a missing person list as a tax payer and being told it would be one million dollars to compile the list? (Per Paulides testimony) Should tell us everything we need to know. And we have debated this before? But I personally see NO WAY with all of the surveillance apparatus of the many government agencies that a 800 lbs primate has never been detected. Research the Lovelock giants for more obstruction from the government. Or the Smithsonian's special status that does not require them to follow US law. Great place to hide the bodies!
Silverback Sax Posted July 22 Posted July 22 "Allows" is an interesting concept when discussing 8 to 12' bipedal farel human like forest beings. I suppose they allow the silver back gorilla at the zoo to eat first as well!
NorCalWitness Posted July 22 Posted July 22 On 7/16/2025 at 10:07 AM, norseman said: The Dennis Martin case is an eye opener. We cannot prove anything but there is definitely obstruction from the Park Service over missing people. Just asking for a missing person list as a tax payer and being told it would be one million dollars to compile the list? (Per Paulides testimony) Should tell us everything we need to know. And we have debated this before? But I personally see NO WAY with all of the surveillance apparatus of the many government agencies that a 800 lbs primate has never been detected. Research the Lovelock giants for more obstruction from the government. Or the Smithsonian's special status that does not require them to follow US law. Great place to hide the bodies! I don't trust a thing Paulides says. But, yes, the government 100% knows about the Sasquatch phenomenon. The Smithsonian is heavily invested in narrative control and are not to be trusted.
norseman Posted July 22 Admin Posted July 22 39 minutes ago, NorCalWitness said: I don't trust a thing Paulides says. But, yes, the government 100% knows about the Sasquatch phenomenon. The Smithsonian is heavily invested in narrative control and are not to be trusted. Don't read Paulides account of it then. There are others…. Agreed.
Pembo Posted Friday at 10:23 PM Posted Friday at 10:23 PM On 7/22/2025 at 7:26 PM, norseman said: Don't read Paulides account of it then. There are others…. Agreed. But Paulides is (as far as I know and I’m trying to find his own words to make sure) the only source of anything weird What do you consider an “eye opener”? This case seems to be held up as the flagship m411 case but there’s nothing to it as far as I can see from my own investigation
norseman Posted yesterday at 04:13 PM Admin Posted yesterday at 04:13 PM 17 hours ago, Pembo said: But Paulides is (as far as I know and I’m trying to find his own words to make sure) the only source of anything weird What do you consider an “eye opener”? This case seems to be held up as the flagship m411 case but there’s nothing to it as far as I can see from my own investigation As a firefighter of 17 years? I can read this report and see a lot of weird stuff in it. https://www.nps.gov/aboutus/foia/upload/1969_GRSM_DennisMartin_dissapearance_REDACTED.pdf https://vault.fbi.gov/dennis-martin/Dennis Martin Part 01 (Final)/view The FBI never called it a kidnapping. There was no evidence for it. Meaning there was no evidence a adult human packed Dennis out of the park. So that means according to the FBI that Dennis was still lost in the park. So you’re telling me there is nothing strange about 1000s of people searching for a 5 year old boy that had a five minute head start and cannot find him? Also notice that the Green Berets kept adding to their force. This wasn’t just a group that happened to be in the area. And when do Green Berets do civilian SAR missions anyhow?
Pembo Posted yesterday at 09:13 PM Posted yesterday at 09:13 PM (edited) Thank you for your reply Firefighting is a noble career and I'm sure that you've made a lot of people's lives better and safer, but I don't see how that's relevant to this particular discussion. I should say, I'm from the UK and nothing in our fire service's experience would necessarily be relevant but I accept that your services are different so I may be wrong. You seem to accept that there wasn't a kidnapping ( I say "seem" because it looks like your paragraph may be a case of "even if you accept this is true, how do you explain this?" and I don't want to put words in your mouth or suggest you accept/concede something that you don't). That said, I disagree completely with your evaluation. You say 'you're telling me there is nothing strange about 1000s of people searching for a 5 year old boy that had a five minute head start and cannot find him?' but that's not what happened. He went missing at 4:30pm. His father and a few other people started searching for him within 3-5 minutes (the details are sketchy). They were searching in terrain that, outside the field and off the trail, which is the terrain he went missing, is reported as being dense forest ('so thick is the green growth of trees that a squirrel could go from Gatlinburg to Cherokee, N.C some 30 miles over the mountain, without ever having to touch ground' - The Tennessean 6.20.1969), ('[Dennis] became separated after plunging into the thick tangle of forest and underbrush, home of black bears, wild hogs, and snakes' - Kingsport Times 6.16.1969) He wasn't reported missing to the Rangers for 4 hours, at 8:28pm. Some few people (no reports I have found state a firm number) searched during the night, during which there was significant rainfall. The first actual, co-ordinated search started at 5am the next day. According to the NPS report, this consisted of somewhere between 50 and 80 people (it's not clear whether 'leaders' were included in the count of searchers or were additional). In any event, some 12+ hours after he went missing, fewer than 100 people were looking for him (assume the higher number of 80 and add in family, who let's assume weren't counted as 'searchers' by the NPS). This is a million miles away from 1000s looking for him within 5 minutes. Assume he could move a conservative 1mph, over 12 hours, that would give a potential search area of 452m2. Slightly smaller than Los Angeles City limits, but covered in dense forest, rivers, caves and crevices. It would be a minor miracle if they did find him! The number of searchers for 6.16.1969 was approx 300, 6.17.1969 was 365 etc. The only day over 1,000 was 6.21.1969, a full week after his disappearance. As for the Green Berets - from the NPS report '[Ranger Mike] Myers also contacted U.S. Forest Service District Ranger on the Nantahala, who in turn made contact with Col. Kinney, commanding the Special Forces troops in that area. Col. Kinney requested and obtained permission from the Third Army Headquarters at Ft Benning, Georgia, to transfer 40 Special Forces to the search area. - 6.15.1969 I can't see anything suggesting that the Green Berets 'kept adding to their force.' They seem to have added 22 men on 6.18.1969, although I admit the seem to have had 71 by 6.25.1969 33 left the search on 6.25.1969 with the remaining 38 leaving the next day. It is mentioned in the NPS report and news papers that they were 'in the area' and familiar with the type of terrain in the area due to having been deployed in Vietnam. I understand that Green Berets don't get involved in SAR on a regular basis, but if they're available, and if this, as was obviously the case, caught the public imagination, why not? Are you willing to suggest why you think the Green Berets were involved? Absent another, better, theory, I don't see why the logical reason put forth shouldn't be accepted. Edited yesterday at 09:16 PM by Pembo left out a number from original 1
norseman Posted yesterday at 11:26 PM Admin Posted yesterday at 11:26 PM 1 hour ago, Pembo said: Thank you for your reply Firefighting is a noble career and I'm sure that you've made a lot of people's lives better and safer, but I don't see how that's relevant to this particular discussion. I should say, I'm from the UK and nothing in our fire service's experience would necessarily be relevant but I accept that your services are different so I may be wrong. You seem to accept that there wasn't a kidnapping ( I say "seem" because it looks like your paragraph may be a case of "even if you accept this is true, how do you explain this?" and I don't want to put words in your mouth or suggest you accept/concede something that you don't). That said, I disagree completely with your evaluation. You say 'you're telling me there is nothing strange about 1000s of people searching for a 5 year old boy that had a five minute head start and cannot find him?' but that's not what happened. He went missing at 4:30pm. His father and a few other people started searching for him within 3-5 minutes (the details are sketchy). They were searching in terrain that, outside the field and off the trail, which is the terrain he went missing, is reported as being dense forest ('so thick is the green growth of trees that a squirrel could go from Gatlinburg to Cherokee, N.C some 30 miles over the mountain, without ever having to touch ground' - The Tennessean 6.20.1969), ('[Dennis] became separated after plunging into the thick tangle of forest and underbrush, home of black bears, wild hogs, and snakes' - Kingsport Times 6.16.1969) He wasn't reported missing to the Rangers for 4 hours, at 8:28pm. Some few people (no reports I have found state a firm number) searched during the night, during which there was significant rainfall. The first actual, co-ordinated search started at 5am the next day. According to the NPS report, this consisted of somewhere between 50 and 80 people (it's not clear whether 'leaders' were included in the count of searchers or were additional). In any event, some 12+ hours after he went missing, fewer than 100 people were looking for him (assume the higher number of 80 and add in family, who let's assume weren't counted as 'searchers' by the NPS). This is a million miles away from 1000s looking for him within 5 minutes. Assume he could move a conservative 1mph, over 12 hours, that would give a potential search area of 452m2. Slightly smaller than Los Angeles City limits, but covered in dense forest, rivers, caves and crevices. It would be a minor miracle if they did find him! The number of searchers for 6.16.1969 was approx 300, 6.17.1969 was 365 etc. The only day over 1,000 was 6.21.1969, a full week after his disappearance. As for the Green Berets - from the NPS report '[Ranger Mike] Myers also contacted U.S. Forest Service District Ranger on the Nantahala, who in turn made contact with Col. Kinney, commanding the Special Forces troops in that area. Col. Kinney requested and obtained permission from the Third Army Headquarters at Ft Benning, Georgia, to transfer 40 Special Forces to the search area. - 6.15.1969 I can't see anything suggesting that the Green Berets 'kept adding to their force.' They seem to have added 22 men on 6.18.1969, although I admit the seem to have had 71 by 6.25.1969 33 left the search on 6.25.1969 with the remaining 38 leaving the next day. It is mentioned in the NPS report and news papers that they were 'in the area' and familiar with the type of terrain in the area due to having been deployed in Vietnam. I understand that Green Berets don't get involved in SAR on a regular basis, but if they're available, and if this, as was obviously the case, caught the public imagination, why not? Are you willing to suggest why you think the Green Berets were involved? Absent another, better, theory, I don't see why the logical reason put forth shouldn't be accepted. Firefighters were apart of the SARS mission. It’s relevant to me because I never had Green Berets ever show up to ANY emergency I was dispatched to in 17 years. It’s not my evaluation. Thats the FBI’s evaluation. He was not kidnapped. (My opinion was that he was kidnapped. But not by someone who operates conventionally) It is in the report that Green Berets kept adding to their numbers. Which seems odd if they were “just in the area”. And it’s amazing to me that they haven’t been “available” since that specific search. They are constantly training out of Ft. Bragg. How many missing people are there in the SE US? Yes, It’s odd. Why would you include armed soldiers in a SAR search? Because you need shooters. There is a threat. If Dennis was just lost? And as many people searched for him? They would have found him. Maybe they would not have found him alive, but they would have found his body.
Pembo Posted 22 hours ago Posted 22 hours ago Thanks for the reply. I hate to not reply fully but there’s something I wanted to quickly check. - you say the green berets were there because of a threat but what threat specifically do you believe was there? Any sources for those threats would be great. any sources for the green berets being armed above and beyond the rangers? I’ve read (but can’t confirm without diving deep back in) that it was sidearms identical to nps rangers
norseman Posted 22 hours ago Admin Posted 22 hours ago 23 minutes ago, Pembo said: Thanks for the reply. I hate to not reply fully but there’s something I wanted to quickly check. - you say the green berets were there because of a threat but what threat specifically do you believe was there? Any sources for those threats would be great. any sources for the green berets being armed above and beyond the rangers? I’ve read (but can’t confirm without diving deep back in) that it was sidearms identical to nps rangers What was the only lead? Harold Key reported a scream and a mangy human carrying something through the woods. 5 - 7 miles away from the point of disappearance. The FBI dismissed this report. My theory is that we are dealing with something akin to the Kari Swenson story, or a Claude Dallas type.
Trogluddite Posted 5 hours ago Posted 5 hours ago 23 hours ago, norseman said: As a firefighter of 17 years? I can read this report and see a lot of weird stuff in it. Trying to reply (w/o getting banned ) from this point above, forward. I agree with thanking you for the firefighting, particularly if it was the woodland type. Tough jobs require tough men and women and I'm sure the sacrifice can be significant even in the day-to-day stuff it takes to train, prepare, and do the mundane, let alone when the mundane suddenly becomes deadly. ... a search for a 5 year old boy that had a five minute head start and cannot find him? Yep. Happens more than you'd like to think. Somewhere in all the threads here is a story that led me to join a woodlands S&R group. It was a very young child (5 years old or less) kid who walked away from the family campground in some flat, open scrubland out west and disappeared. He wasn't left alone all that long either; never found. Also, the "five minutes" could very easily been 10-15 minutes or longer; dad probably didn't start a stopwatch on the boys. From the attached AAR - the father began calling and looking for Dennis (who was 7 years old, but developmentally delayed to some degree). That's now a discouraged search behavior. Children, particularly young children, hear an adult calling their name and interpret it as they've done something wrong and may get punished, so they hide harder. The thousands of persons searching didn't hit the ground right away. Over the weekend, when search efforts were not as large, local papers report that the area was "drenched by rain" and that temperatures were in the 50s and 60s, which could easily place a person at risk of near hypothermia. A small child could easily crawl under a log to escape the rain and become so muddy as to be near invisible. The papers also report that the area is "laced" with numerous streams. In the middle of the night, in a drenching downpour (2-3" in one night), a small child could easily slip or be swept into a creek and lodged in a deadfall, etc. Another article stated that Dennis got separated (another child) in thick growth and underbrush. Even adults have been known to become disoriented under these conditions (see the case of the woman who disappeared on the Appalachian Trail in Maine). The area had The FBI never called it a kidnapping. Nothing unusual about that. The person who heard a scream, saw the scruffy human, and a car parked so to be partially hidden came forward almost a month later. There was far too little information to consider that to be a credible claim or to support categorizing the the situation (for the FBI or an LEO) as a kidnapping. They would probably keep that option open in the background, though. And when do Green Berets do civilian SAR missions anyhow? The Green Berets were not called out to do a SAR mission. The first mention of military assistance to civilian authorities (a fairly routine matter for large posts) was over the weekend when helicopters from Fort Benning carried state Park Rangers in flights over the area. (NOTE: "rangers" are mentioned several time, but the appear to be state park rangers or rangers-in-training, not U.S. Army Rangers.) The adult woman who disappeared from the AT in Maine and whose remains were found a year later had SEAL trainees searching for her. Apparently, the AT runs near a Navy SERE training facility there and SEALS and others at the base went out in their spare time and kept an eye out when doing training. There are probably more examples than this, but they don't garner the same intensive news coverage. The first mention of Green Berets joining the search comes on the Tuesday after Dennis' disappearance and specifies that they were on maneuvers in nearby western North Carolina. Hilly terrain, humidity, and downpours at any time? Sounds like near perfect training for southeast Asia. Have to search nearly impenetrable terrain for a small target (Dennis Martin). Sounds like perfect training for southeast Asia. Do your best to find a lost kid and reunite him with his family? H**** yeah, there's nothing more red-blooded American than doing this. we're in. I would also note that in the late 1960s, things like this were likely less tied up in regulations and lawyers (darned lawyers). The Green Berets on maneuvers had weapons? I don't see any in this pic from the time, but I'd be shocked if they didn't. Usually, if you're in the field, you take your assigned weapon everywhere - including the head. But even if they had weapons, that doesn't mean that they had live ammo. Rant over. From here on out, I'll just link back to this post. 00-Dennis Martin Case Study_SG.pdf
norseman Posted 1 hour ago Admin Posted 1 hour ago 3 hours ago, Trogluddite said: Trying to reply (w/o getting banned ) from this point above, forward. I agree with thanking you for the firefighting, particularly if it was the woodland type. Tough jobs require tough men and women and I'm sure the sacrifice can be significant even in the day-to-day stuff it takes to train, prepare, and do the mundane, let alone when the mundane suddenly becomes deadly. ... a search for a 5 year old boy that had a five minute head start and cannot find him? Yep. Happens more than you'd like to think. Somewhere in all the threads here is a story that led me to join a woodlands S&R group. It was a very young child (5 years old or less) kid who walked away from the family campground in some flat, open scrubland out west and disappeared. He wasn't left alone all that long either; never found. Also, the "five minutes" could very easily been 10-15 minutes or longer; dad probably didn't start a stopwatch on the boys. From the attached AAR - the father began calling and looking for Dennis (who was 7 years old, but developmentally delayed to some degree). That's now a discouraged search behavior. Children, particularly young children, hear an adult calling their name and interpret it as they've done something wrong and may get punished, so they hide harder. The thousands of persons searching didn't hit the ground right away. Over the weekend, when search efforts were not as large, local papers report that the area was "drenched by rain" and that temperatures were in the 50s and 60s, which could easily place a person at risk of near hypothermia. A small child could easily crawl under a log to escape the rain and become so muddy as to be near invisible. The papers also report that the area is "laced" with numerous streams. In the middle of the night, in a drenching downpour (2-3" in one night), a small child could easily slip or be swept into a creek and lodged in a deadfall, etc. Another article stated that Dennis got separated (another child) in thick growth and underbrush. Even adults have been known to become disoriented under these conditions (see the case of the woman who disappeared on the Appalachian Trail in Maine). The area had The FBI never called it a kidnapping. Nothing unusual about that. The person who heard a scream, saw the scruffy human, and a car parked so to be partially hidden came forward almost a month later. There was far too little information to consider that to be a credible claim or to support categorizing the the situation (for the FBI or an LEO) as a kidnapping. They would probably keep that option open in the background, though. And when do Green Berets do civilian SAR missions anyhow? The Green Berets were not called out to do a SAR mission. The first mention of military assistance to civilian authorities (a fairly routine matter for large posts) was over the weekend when helicopters from Fort Benning carried state Park Rangers in flights over the area. (NOTE: "rangers" are mentioned several time, but the appear to be state park rangers or rangers-in-training, not U.S. Army Rangers.) The adult woman who disappeared from the AT in Maine and whose remains were found a year later had SEAL trainees searching for her. Apparently, the AT runs near a Navy SERE training facility there and SEALS and others at the base went out in their spare time and kept an eye out when doing training. There are probably more examples than this, but they don't garner the same intensive news coverage. The first mention of Green Berets joining the search comes on the Tuesday after Dennis' disappearance and specifies that they were on maneuvers in nearby western North Carolina. Hilly terrain, humidity, and downpours at any time? Sounds like near perfect training for southeast Asia. Have to search nearly impenetrable terrain for a small target (Dennis Martin). Sounds like perfect training for southeast Asia. Do your best to find a lost kid and reunite him with his family? H**** yeah, there's nothing more red-blooded American than doing this. we're in. I would also note that in the late 1960s, things like this were likely less tied up in regulations and lawyers (darned lawyers). The Green Berets on maneuvers had weapons? I don't see any in this pic from the time, but I'd be shocked if they didn't. Usually, if you're in the field, you take your assigned weapon everywhere - including the head. But even if they had weapons, that doesn't mean that they had live ammo. Rant over. From here on out, I'll just link back to this post. 00-Dennis Martin Case Study_SG.pdf 391.44 kB · 0 downloads Not going to ban someone for speaking their mind!🙂↔️ I had read they were armed. But you are right. I don’t see any weapons in that photo.🤷♂️ The number of cases in which a child (dead or alive) is never recovered is extremely low. It sucks you lost a child. But thank you for your service!👍 I think the reason the Dennis Martin case is high profile is because it had strange elements to it. The Keys family lead that never was followed up on (it’s super creepy in and of itself) The Green Berets participation in the SAR mission. And the fact that they never found a body or a piece of clothing. It’s strange IMHO.
Trogluddite Posted 29 minutes ago Posted 29 minutes ago (edited) ^^ All good. Not saying that there aren't unusual aspects, but Bigfoot would be about #37 on my list of explanations. Also, when I started writing, I was in a "high hover" ready to spit vinegar and chicklets on everything. I calmed myself down as I typed! Also wanted to throw in that there's a difference between missing children who get lost in the city or abducted by estranged parents, etc., and kids/young adults that go missing in the woods. In eastern New York, there are at least 2 20-year-old cases of adults missing in relatively confined areas who have never been found. One of these got featured in the first 4-1-1- book. In another case a missing teenager was recovered (found deceased) 2-3 months after his disappearance. And in yet another case, a missing adult was found about six months after his disappearance in an area that had been searched by drones, yet when the snow melted and the leaves blew away six months later, there he was. These four cases were all in relatively tiny areas; finding a missing adult in the woods is hard, finding a missing child is that much harder. Edited 20 minutes ago by Trogluddite
norseman Posted 12 minutes ago Admin Posted 12 minutes ago 12 minutes ago, Trogluddite said: ^^ All good. Not saying that there aren't unusual aspects, but Bigfoot would be about #37 on my list of explanations. Also, when I started writing, I was in a "high hover" ready to spit vinegar and chicklets on everything. I calmed myself down as I typed! Also wanted to throw in that there's a difference between missing children who get lost in the city or abducted by estranged parents, etc., and kids/young adults that go missing in the woods. In eastern New York, there are at least 2 20-year-old cases of adults missing in relatively confined areas who have never been found. One of these got featured in the first 4-1-1- book. In another case a missing teenager was recovered (found deceased) 2-3 months after his disappearance. And in yet another case, a missing adult was found about six months after his disappearance in an area that had been searched by drones, yet when the snow melted and the leaves blew away six months later, there he was. These four cases were all in relatively tiny areas; finding a missing adult in the woods is hard, finding a missing child is that much harder. No worries. I don’t rule Bigfoot out. But Occam’s razor would favor a human as being responsible. But I think the Key family testimony is alarming and the lynchpin to the case. I really wish I could find more just about what they saw.
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