The Bigfoot harvest.

[Somerset]

16 minutes ago, NorCalWitness said:

1. the missing are recorded. if they weren't, you wouldn't know about them. 

2. no, the government doesn't have a deal with Sasquatch to allow them to take humans. This is insane and doesn't deserve any further explanation. 

1, show me the list of missing people from US government land.

2, show me the list of missing people that no-body knows are missing.

3, I obviously don't mean there's been a sit down and a deal agreed , didn't you understand that? I bet there's a level of missing persons the government tolerate (that it recognises as BF involvement) on government land, it's widely believed the government know they exist. to keep the whole truth quiet then they would have no choice but to except certain behaviour.............to a point.

 

Have another go.   

Edited yesterday at 10:08 PM by Somerset

[norseman]

1 hour ago, NorCalWitness said:

1. the missing are recorded. if they weren't, you wouldn't know about them. 

2. no, the government doesn't have a deal with Sasquatch to allow them to take humans. This is insane and doesn't deserve any further explanation. 

 

1) Then when I ask for a missing person list from the Park Service? It should be an easy thing to produce, no? And you certainly don’t see missing person posters inside a park….do you? I never have. I suppose that would be very bad for business? Paulides had to dig to get to a list. 

 

2) Not sure how you would make a “deal” with a Sasquatch. You’re not sitting down on a buffalo robe with mirrors and trinkets in order for them to agree to sign a treaty with the U.S. government.

 

3) If we believe that Sasquatch exists? Then I am not sure how we can write off any missing persons case. What do Native Americans say about Sasquatch kidnapping people? What does our own modern accounts say about Sasquatch kidnapping people? Albert Ostman anyone? Further? Native Americans claim Sasquatch was a cannibal. Bart Schleyer was undressed with his clothes found inside out before he was eaten. Odd behavior? The guy was a Bear biologist. Yah that’s odd.

We can complain about facts and who is right or wrong. But there is ZERO chance that the Federal government with its military and alphabet agencies and the trillions of dollars spent does NOT know about this species. Absolutely ZERO! 
 

So if a troupe of 800lbs hominids are roaming your park and you know about it? And someone goes missing? And there is evidence that they may have been taken by a predator? And you stay silent? I would say you’re complicit in the crime that is happening under your watch…. No deal necessary.

 

[Huntster]

3 hours ago, Somerset said:

1, show me the list of missing people from US government land......... 

 

Here's a published list of missing persons from the Alaska State Troopers. I don't think this differentiates what lands they became missing from, and I believe that this list is incomplete for many reasons (like the formally missing person is presumed dead).

 

Quote

.........2, show me the list of missing people that no-body knows are missing.........

 

If nobody knows that a person is missing, the person is not legally missing,

[Huntster]

1 hour ago, norseman said:

1) Then when I ask for a missing person list from the Park Service?........

 

I think the primary law enforcement agency on missing persons is the most local authority, ie county sheriff. In the case of the feds taking a case, it's likely due to evidence that the missing person has crossed state lines, and in that case the agency would be the FBI, not the Park Service or other federal land manager.

 

Quote

........2) Not sure how you would make a “deal” with a Sasquatch.........

 

Thank you. You're catching on (I think........). This is the precise reason why, if sasquatches are of the genus Homo, the government does NOT want them "discovered", because they would have human rights that would complicate a whole bunch more than just federal land management.

[Pembo]

20 hours ago, norseman said:

 

3) If we believe that Sasquatch exists? Then I am not sure how we can write off any missing persons case. What do Native Americans say about Sasquatch kidnapping people? What does our own modern accounts say about Sasquatch kidnapping people? Albert Ostman anyone? Further? Native Americans claim Sasquatch was a cannibal. Bart Schleyer was undressed with his clothes found inside out before he was eaten. Odd behavior? The guy was a Bear biologist. Yah that’s odd.

 

 

Ostman - seems a very far fetched story and not really in line with many if any reports of sasquatch (if they were cannibals, why not eat him but rather sort of befriend him and share his snuff?)

 

Schleyer - I hate to go there again, but is there any evidence for the 'pants standing up, bones in them, but the clothes untouched' narrative other than the thoroughly unreliable Paulides? Genuine question, not trying to be awkward, I've done a bit of research and found only reports (from before the M411 books came out) providing details that make no mention that such bones were found and that specifically state that the pants were ripped and torn. I'm genuinely looking for cases where there's something to them without Paulides' embellishments but they seem very thin on the ground. For instance, the Schleyer case seems to be a case of natural death followed by scavengers, unusual sure, but it happens.  

 

20 hours ago, norseman said:

We can complain about facts and who is right or wrong. But there is ZERO chance that the Federal government with its military and alphabet agencies and the trillions of dollars spent does NOT know about this species. Absolutely ZERO! 

 

It surely depends on how much of the military and agencies' time and how much of the government's trillions are directed towards the pursuit of confirming the existence of Bigfoot. If they directed all their resources towards finding bigfoot, we'd no doubt have a definitive answer in short order, one way or another. However, it probably suits them to leave things as they are, in which case, they wouldn't direct resources that way. 

 

I'm not sure if the government would involve themselves in trying to establish the existence of any animal anyway, other than potentially providing research grants (which seem, on the state and federal level, available more for study of already established animals rather than establishing the existence of new species). 

 

As I've mentioned before, I don't think anyone could consider the government to 'know' conclusively of bigfoot's existence without a body anyway, in much the same way as science wouldn't consider the species proven without one. pictures, thermals, footprints, anecdotal evidence from individual government employees etc could easily be dismissed as insufficiently conclusive in the same way as they currently are by science generally. 

 

I'm not saying that I'm concrete in any of the above opinions, I'm very willing to be proven wrong, how else do we learn and progress. But the above is where I've landed based on my current knowledge and consideration. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Pembo
to add last paragraph

[Huntster]

11 minutes ago, Pembo said:

Ostman - seems a very far fetched story........

 

Yes, it does.

 

Quote

.........and not really in line with many if any reports of sasquatch........

 

No, that isn't accurate at all. Sasquatches stealing women and children is an old story among the aboriginal people. The story of Muchalat Harry, an indigenous man of the same era as Ostman, also exists.

 

Quote

.........(if they were cannibals, why not eat him but rather sort of befriend him and share his snuff?)........

 

I'm not going to deny that sasquatches are cannibals or not, because I don't know, but chimps and Homo sapiens are (and Neanderthals accused of) ............sometimes. Therefore, I would speculate that if sasquatches exist, they might be cannibals............sometimes. But the kidnappings might happen for other reasons. Ostman himself (I believe) opined that he may have been brought as a suitor for the young female. 

[Pembo]

5 minutes ago, Huntster said:

No, that isn't accurate at all. Sasquatches stealing women and children is an old story among the aboriginal people. The story of Muchalat Harry, an indigenous man of the same era as Ostman, also exists.

Fair enough. I was thinking more about recent reports rather than historical, nearing 100 yrs old, but I should have been more clear - there may be more recent ones that I haven't come across. 

 

14 minutes ago, Huntster said:

I'm not going to deny that sasquatches are cannibals or not, because I don't know, but chimps and Homo sapiens are (and Neanderthals accused of) ............sometimes. Therefore, I would speculate that if sasquatches exist, they might be cannibals............sometimes. But the kidnappings might happen for other reasons. Ostman himself (I believe) opined that he may have been brought as a suitor for the young female. 

I agree to a degree. If they exist, there's a chance they could be cannibal sometimes. But assuming that they exist, assuming that they are cannibals and assuming that they are responsible for disappearances that can be explained by mundane, proven existence, is too much for me. I guess I need to see something in these stories that cannot be explained by natural occurrences before considering the unproven. 

 

Another point that occurs to me that isn't necessarily relevant to this discussion is - 'what would you consider 'cannibal' for a sasquatch? Chimps eating chimps - cannibal. Humans eating humans - cannibal. Sasquatch theoretically eating humans? Not so clear, given that a cannibal is an animal that consumes the flesh of it's own species.  

[Huntster]

6 minutes ago, Pembo said:

.......I was thinking more about recent reports rather than historical, nearing 100 yrs old, but I should have been more clear - there may be more recent ones that I haven't come across..........

 

It's interesting and suspicious that most kidnapping reports are a century or more of age. I did read one from an anthropologist who studied the Koyukon natives in Alaska and who interviewed a Koyukon man who claimed that a female "woodsman" followed him around for days before finally rushing him. He claimed to kill it with his knife. He believed that it brought him bad luck in life later, and that she wanted to "make love to him". 

 

I have to wonder how the sudden technological explosion has impressed sasquatches. Native Americans no longer shoot bows and arrows. For the past 150 years (not long, really) they shoot pretty powerful rifles like the European invaders. That might have changed some sasquatch habits.............

 

Quote

.........assuming that they exist, assuming that they are cannibals and assuming that they are responsible for disappearances that can be explained by mundane, proven existence, is too much for me. I guess I need to see something in these stories that cannot be explained by natural occurrences before considering the unproven..........

 

I understand. I don't much think about the weeds at this point unless it's brought up. But sometimes, after discussions like this, I tend to accept some basic common sense likelihoods. 

 

Quote

.........Another point that occurs to me that isn't necessarily relevant to this discussion is - 'what would you consider 'cannibal' for a sasquatch? Chimps eating chimps - cannibal. Humans eating humans - cannibal. Sasquatch theoretically eating humans? Not so clear, given that a cannibal is an animal that consumes the flesh of it's own species.  

 

Good point. I wasn't clear. 

 

If a Sasquatch eats a homo sapien, is it a cannibal? I really can't say except to ask another question:

 

If a Neanderthal ate a Cro Magnan, was it cannibalistic?

 

I ask that because I believe that sasquatches are a human species.

 

 

 

[Pembo]

32 minutes ago, Huntster said:

If a Sasquatch eats a homo sapien, is it a cannibal? I really can't say except to ask another question:

 

If a Neanderthal ate a Cro Magnan, was it cannibalistic?

 

I ask that because I believe that sasquatches are a human species.

I don't have any answers. It's certainly interesting to consider though. 

 

It's another thing that we can only confirm with species verification, in turn leading to verifiable DNA (from an actual body, whether living or dead, rather than hair or EDNA that nobody saw being left at the scene). In turn this would confirm the level of proximity to homo sapiens, at which point discussions regarding 'human' rights vs animal conservation, cannibalism, possible interbreeding etc can potentially be settled. 

[Huntster]

25 minutes ago, Pembo said:

..........It's another thing that we can only confirm with species verification, in turn leading to verifiable DNA (from an actual body, whether living or dead, rather than hair or EDNA that nobody saw being left at the scene). In turn this would confirm the level of proximity to homo sapiens, at which point discussions regarding 'human' rights vs animal conservation, cannibalism, possible interbreeding etc can potentially be settled. 

 

This has happened exactly once that we know of: 

 

Zana of Abkhazia.

 

The village she was taken and kept by believed she was an Almas, and it is very understandable why they believed that. She matched the description perfectly.

 

Two genetic studies confirmed that she was homo sapien, and so was definitively a feral human. 

 

The second peer reviewed genetic study (Margaryan) actually included a statement regarding the morality of what happened to her and referenced her human rights.

 

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9744565/