Do Bigfoots that are Injured, or too old Hunt Dangerous?

[norseman]

Let’s leave the supernatural talk for the supernatural section please! Thanks!

 

👍

[Incorrigible1]

9 hours ago, Frisco85132 said:

Well if one accepts the ridiculous notion that Bigfoot is a "woopernatural" space monkey....then I think one should also accept the notion that they would dematerialize/vibrate to a different frequency of matter/jump into a portal/float off on an orb, or simply allow the projectile(s) to pass through them ala Kitty Whatzername from X-Men long before a bullet, slug, or load of buckshot hit them, so the choice of caliber is moot.

If, however, on the other hand, you are one who disregards the woopidity and accepts the very real possibility that they are, in fact, an apex predatory omnivore or an opportunistic omnivore with at least the ability to harvest mammal or pescatarian protein when it's convenient...then the possibility remains that they will ****** a hairless tool using ape such as a human if it is low risk high reward.  

As for a firearm, I carry a Glock 20 in 10mm with Buffalo Bore Big Game ammo when I am out in the field for ANY reason, whether I am hunting deer or fishing.  Less because I think Bigfoot is going to prey on me, though I allow for the possibility, but more for the very real possibility that a black bear with a ****** attitude and general disposition may want to nibble on my ass.  If "attacked" by a Bigfoot, the reality is that you're probably going to be dead before you knew an attack was coming because it's probably going to be from ambuscade and done by the Grand Master Gold Medalist Hide And Seek Champion of the world. 

BUT...the Ape Canyon account tells us that one was shot and fell into a gorge, and when the miners were allegedly attacked, they used their rifles and shotguns to drive the "Mountain Devils" away, so there is a presumption that guns DO have an effect on them and they won't "woo away on a moonbeam".  Hell, even if you believe Justin Smeja killed not one, but two mind ya, TWO of them....then...the possibility that guns work on them like any other biological critter remains.

Now, the bad news....the ONLY way that any firearm would be of ANY value is if you have at least a little warning, and even then, 99% of gun owners are barely competent to carry a gun and not shoot themselves in the foot on a range, let alone during an adrenaline dump facing a dangerous animal charge/attack.  Over 27 years as a police officer having to review literally hundreds of videos of person to person gun fights from stores, etc....the probability of emptying your gun concurrently with your bladder and bowels are about the same while missing every shot.  Sorry if the truth hurts...buuuuuut...there it is.  Most people survive because they were the luckiest and least incompetent combatant.

When in a dynamic critical incident, you will ALWAYS default to your level of training and as the extreme vast majority of gun owners don't get ANY training beyond MAYBE a hunter safety class, or a CCW class taught by Joe The Tactical Plumber, then the default will be "draw gun, **** pants, miss target, panic, empty magazine or cylinder, scream like a chick".  Generally lifelong hunters who don't get "buck fever" are exempt from this, trained competitive shooters, or prior military with combat arms/deployment MOS are fairly stress inoculated too, but it also depends upon keeping up with training.  I have been in several critical incidents during my career where other officers who were not "gun people" who placed a high value on training were next to useless in a gun fight, so I am not ******** on John Average Gun Carrier.  I am ******** on other cops too.

But....It's not ALL bad news even for the 99% who are a danger to their own feet in a high stress situation.  Based upon not only my own face to face encounter were I am convinced that the revelation of my pistol is what caused the one I was staring at to flee, there have been other encounters where the BF/SQ took off when the presence of a firearm was discovered...so I believe, based upon this, that a visible firearm probably has a deterrent effect.  So, if I were part of the 99%, I'd carry a 12 gauge shotgun or a big old hawg leg in a hip holster so it could be seen as a deterrent to a hungry, opportunistic BF/SQ.

 

 

Am enjoying retirement now, but I managed three different retail gun stores over the years. If you wish to make generalizations, I can state that all too frequently the firearms that came into the shops that were the most poorly maintained (dirty, worn parts, questionable functioning) were from our LEO customer base.

[Frisco85132]

5 minutes ago, Incorrigible1 said:

 

Am enjoying retirement now, but I managed three different retail gun stores over the years. If you wish to make generalizations, I can state that all too frequently the firearms that came into the shops that were the most poorly maintained (dirty, worn parts, questionable functioning) were from our LEO customer base.

And?  What's your point?  If you read what I wrote, you would also see that I included LEOs in my statement.  I speak from experience as a 27 year police veteran and actual shooter with over 30 years in USPSA, IDPA, ISPC, 3Gun, and PPC.  Armorer, custom gun builder and trainer at not one, but two academies.  So, I am not speaking from inexperience or ignorance.  Yay, you got to put your two cents in.  Add another five bucks and you can get yourself a latte...but the fact remains that the extreme vast majority of gun owners are woefully ignorant of their safe handling, let alone competent to mount a defense in a dynamic critical incident.  I am 110% PRO 2A and don't even believe any state or municipality has the authority to regulate ownership or carry...in a free society the burden lies on the citizen, but the fact remains that people simply make the choice NOT to get training, choose NOT to practice what they learned in training, and make the choice NOT to gain any level of competence.

How many post critical incident videos have you had to professionally evaluate for either prosecution or defense?  How many dynamic critical incidents have YOU been involved in?  How many times have you had to sit through tens of dozens of hours of post critical incident testimony or deposition?  How many times have you sat in a courtroom as an expert witness, or as a consulting attorney for other attorneys in self defense cases?  And finally, how many books have YOU written on self defense law, techniques, and post critical incident survival that have been court recognized and accepted? (For me, so far it's TWO of those).  How many CLEs (Continuing Legal Education) have YOU written and delivered to other attorneys after you retired from LE and went to law school?  (For me....nearly a dozen written with ten times that delivered).  So yay....you ran a gun shop.  Good goobledy goo for you, but don't pretend doing your chicken dance from behind a retail counter and not on the range or in a courtroom and dropping a faux anecdote about poorly maintained weapons coming from LEOs is anything less than mouth waddling because of personal hubris.

[BC witness]

Careful, Frisco85132, that's an attack on the poster, not on the argument. 

[Incorrigible1]

3 hours ago, Frisco85132 said:

And?  What's your point?  If you read what I wrote, you would also see that I included LEOs in my statement.  I speak from experience as a 27 year police veteran and actual shooter with over 30 years in USPSA, IDPA, ISPC, 3Gun, and PPC.  Armorer, custom gun builder and trainer at not one, but two academies.  So, I am not speaking from inexperience or ignorance.  Yay, you got to put your two cents in.  Add another five bucks and you can get yourself a latte...but the fact remains that the extreme vast majority of gun owners are woefully ignorant of their safe handling, let alone competent to mount a defense in a dynamic critical incident.  I am 110% PRO 2A and don't even believe any state or municipality has the authority to regulate ownership or carry...in a free society the burden lies on the citizen, but the fact remains that people simply make the choice NOT to get training, choose NOT to practice what they learned in training, and make the choice NOT to gain any level of competence.

How many post critical incident videos have you had to professionally evaluate for either prosecution or defense?  How many dynamic critical incidents have YOU been involved in?  How many times have you had to sit through tens of dozens of hours of post critical incident testimony or deposition?  How many times have you sat in a courtroom as an expert witness, or as a consulting attorney for other attorneys in self defense cases?  And finally, how many books have YOU written on self defense law, techniques, and post critical incident survival that have been court recognized and accepted? (For me, so far it's TWO of those).  How many CLEs (Continuing Legal Education) have YOU written and delivered to other attorneys after you retired from LE and went to law school?  (For me....nearly a dozen written with ten times that delivered).  So yay....you ran a gun shop.  Good goobledy goo for you, but don't pretend doing your chicken dance from behind a retail counter and not on the range or in a courtroom and dropping a faux anecdote about poorly maintained weapons coming from LEOs is anything less than mouth waddling because of personal hubris.

 

Whoa, loose cannon detected.

[Huntster]

1 hour ago, Incorrigible1 said:

Whoa, loose cannon detected.

He might have been a cop in San Francisco. In that case, frustration should be expected. Maybe his avatar should have been Dirty Harry Callahan?

[Incorrigible1]

20 minutes ago, Huntster said:

He might have been a cop in San Francisco. In that case, frustration should be expected. Maybe his avatar should have been Dirty Harry Callahan?

 

Won't work. Callahan had charisma. 

[norseman]

As gun owners? We are all family here and should not be fighting amongst ourselves. 
 

Frisco’s statement reminds me of the Kehoe brothers shoot out with Ohio SP. No one was hit.

 

It stands out because the Kehoe brothers were from north of Colville Wa. Brainwashed kids living in the woods. Either way real stress is tough to simulate. I was on the fire dept for 17 years and was a training officer and training certainly helps. But no one and I mean no one actually knows how they are gonna react in a life and death situation until it happens to them. Some get back in the saddle and some don’t.

 

 

[Huntster]

11 minutes ago, Incorrigible1 said:

.........Callahan had charisma. 

Like the elevator scene in Sudden Impact?

 

He was scary.

[georgerm]

6 hours ago, norseman said:

Let’s leave the supernatural talk for the supernatural section please! Thanks!

 

👍

Who is this for?

[norseman]

1 hour ago, georgerm said:

Who is this for?

This whole thread.

[Madison5716]

Back to the original question. 

 

NorthWind and I once investigated a sighting location at a lake camp. A (presumably) old sasquatch with a limp was seen dumpster diving numerous times. 

 

I'd guess scavenging, eating roadkill and pets kept outside would be much easier than taking a human.

 

I would bet they have an idea, that if one of us goes missing, multitudes more will show up searching, which bodes ill for them. And, yes, I do think they are that intelligent. 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Madison5716

[georgerm]

15 hours ago, Frisco85132 said:

Well if one accepts the ridiculous notion that Bigfoot is a "woopernatural" space monkey....then I think one should also accept the notion that they would dematerialize/vibrate to a different frequency of matter/jump into a portal/float off on an orb, or simply allow the projectile(s) to pass through them ala Kitty Whatzername from X-Men long before a bullet, slug, or load of buckshot hit them, so the choice of caliber is moot.

If, however, on the other hand, you are one who disregards the woopidity and accepts the very real possibility that they are, in fact, an apex predatory omnivore or an opportunistic omnivore with at least the ability to harvest mammal or pescatarian protein when it's convenient...then the possibility remains that they will ****** a hairless tool using ape such as a human if it is low risk high reward.  

As for a firearm, I carry a Glock 20 in 10mm with Buffalo Bore Big Game ammo when I am out in the field for ANY reason, whether I am hunting deer or fishing.  Less because I think Bigfoot is going to prey on me, though I allow for the possibility, but more for the very real possibility that a black bear with a ****** attitude and general disposition may want to nibble on my ass.  If "attacked" by a Bigfoot, the reality is that you're probably going to be dead before you knew an attack was coming because it's probably going to be from ambuscade and done by the Grand Master Gold Medalist Hide And Seek Champion of the world. 

BUT...the Ape Canyon account tells us that one was shot and fell into a gorge, and when the miners were allegedly attacked, they used their rifles and shotguns to drive the "Mountain Devils" away, so there is a presumption that guns DO have an effect on them and they won't "woo away on a moonbeam".  Hell, even if you believe Justin Smeja killed not one, but two mind ya, TWO of them....then...the possibility that guns work on them like any other biological critter remains.

Now, the bad news....the ONLY way that any firearm would be of ANY value is if you have at least a little warning, and even then, 99% of gun owners are barely competent to carry a gun and not shoot themselves in the foot on a range, let alone during an adrenaline dump facing a dangerous animal charge/attack.  Over 27 years as a police officer having to review literally hundreds of videos of person to person gun fights from stores, etc....the probability of emptying your gun concurrently with your bladder and bowels are about the same while missing every shot.  Sorry if the truth hurts...buuuuuut...there it is.  Most people survive because they were the luckiest and least incompetent combatant.

When in a dynamic critical incident, you will ALWAYS default to your level of training and as the extreme vast majority of gun owners don't get ANY training beyond MAYBE a hunter safety class, or a CCW class taught by Joe The Tactical Plumber, then the default will be "draw gun, **** pants, miss target, panic, empty magazine or cylinder, scream like a chick".  Generally lifelong hunters who don't get "buck fever" are exempt from this, trained competitive shooters, or prior military with combat arms/deployment MOS are fairly stress inoculated too, but it also depends upon keeping up with training.  I have been in several critical incidents during my career where other officers who were not "gun people" who placed a high value on training were next to useless in a gun fight, so I am not ******** on John Average Gun Carrier.  I am ******** on other cops too.

But....It's not ALL bad news even for the 99% who are a danger to their own feet in a high stress situation.  Based upon not only my own face to face encounter were I am convinced that the revelation of my pistol is what caused the one I was staring at to flee, there have been other encounters where the BF/SQ took off when the presence of a firearm was discovered...so I believe, based upon this, that a visible firearm probably has a deterrent effect.  So, if I were part of the 99%, I'd carry a 12 gauge shotgun or a big old hawg leg in a hip holster so it could be seen as a deterrent to a hungry, opportunistic BF/SQ.

 

Totally amazing and accurate writing that keeps the reader interested and motivated to read more. I can see why you are an attorney 'cause you have a great way with words. I'm very glad that you survived your years as a policeman because that is one of the most dangerous positions you can get. It helps to be good with a semi automatic pistol such as 40, 9mm or 45. I have a semi auto 40 that's a nice small pistol that I can carry under my arm with a shoulder holster and it's comfortable on a hike. I would like to ask a question because I've been shooting my 40 for quite awhile, and it seems like the type of pistol that you have to practice over and over to be accurate with it otherwise the short pistol seems to throw the bullet somewhere. If researching by listening to pod cast since I'm 78 and becoming less mobile. Bigfoot most of the time I am not afraid of because I believe many bigfoots are curious towards people. They know we are similar to them but possibly 1 out of 20 and hopefully 1 out of 50 are not friendly and can be very hostile towards a person. Did you know that Daniel Boone had a run in with a Bigfoot that was hostile and with his muzzleloader gun he was able to kill since he was such a good shot knew where to place the bullet which is probably between the Bigfoot Eyes.

 

I am no newbie when it comes to guns since when I was 10 years old my dad took us duck hunting and I shot a 410 single shot for a number of years before I got to graduate up to uh pump 20 Guage. I graduated to a semi auto 12 Guage that I have in my closet loaded for any kind of intruder. I keep a 38 in the living room in case we have an intruder banging on our weak door. I intend fortify the door some somehow. I have a bolt action 3030 that I use for deer and small black bear. I used to have a 270 with a scope until on one expedition up above the Rogue River in southern Oregon it caused a near impending bear attack. Near a place called Agnes Oregon, I was deer hunting and was charged by a black bear. I quickly brought my 270 up to my shoulder and was not able to see the bear because it was so close it was blurry in the scope. Well by chance when the bear saw me bring up the gun, it made a sharp left turn and ran up a old Douglas fir tree. It ran up thid dead fir tree about 20 feet, and I thought it was looking back at me and thinking of bailing out of the tree. I visualized it coming back at me so I shot it dead. It fell out of the tree with a big thump when it hit the ground dead as a door nail. I couldn't see the bear in the scope, so I just pointed the gun at shoulder blades and shot it with the 270. It was not the kind of situation that I was expecting but thank God I reacted to it in the right way. On the Rogue River there were 5 or 6 black bears in a 30 mile streach of river. None of them seemed hostile, but this one bear that charged me was intent on doing damage. It was really furious at me for being at this location. I learned a good lesson from that bear and now I have the skin that I tanned. I put it on the back of my fold out chair that makes a comfortable bear cushion. Well, enough for tall tales and Frisco it sounds like you've had your close calls and I'm glad you are still with us.

're still with us. And you are very welcome to the forum so just try to get your feet on the ground and try to find out about some of the other members and what they've been doing. Just settle down and you have made a big impact on us. Welcome aboard. We are thinking of having a summer campout with tents, trailers, and cooks tent sometime this summer near NORSEMAN'S home. We may need to rent a small circus tent. Some of our members are game hunters, some retired game hunters,them are professional hunters and some of them are couch Bigfoot explorers.

[Huntster]

10 minutes ago, georgerm said:

.........We may need to rent a small circus tent...........

 

 

[georgerm]

3 hours ago, Madison5716 said:

Back to the original question. 

 

NorthWind and I once investigated a sighting location at a lake camp. A (presumably) old sasquatch with a limp was seen dumpster diving numerous times.     Now that's really sad to hear, and I hope there was enough food in the dumpster to keep it alive. Somebody should go up there and check that dumpster out and put some food out.

 

I'd guess scavenging, eating roadkill and pets kept outside would be much easier than taking a human.  Yes but lets not discount Sassy. Depends on if the lone human is where no other people are located so the squatch can ****** with no witnesses. A 350 pound squatch can take a 250 pound fit human quite easily I would think. Sassy probably knows taking one of two or three in a hiking party amounts to loads of searchers.

 

I would bet they have an idea, that if one of us goes missing, multitudes more will show up searching, which bodes ill for them. And, yes, I do think they are that intelligent. If one of their clan snatches a hiker the clan leader probably knows a search parties will follow and might last for a week. They might evacuate the area knowing choppers and searchers might arrive.