georgerm Posted Wednesday at 04:01 PM Author Posted Wednesday at 04:01 PM On 1/4/2026 at 4:54 PM, MIB said: The first Native Americans did not bring Clovis technology with them. We know that there were settlements like Rimrock Draw cave in Oregon that predate Clovis by a good margin. I know a photographer from the dig. As of now they have solid dates to 18500 BP and there is a smattering of deeper material that hasn't been dated yet. The fossilized trackway at White Sands, NM goes back to about 23,000 BP. There are other sites being excavated that may prove older than either. Nothing, though, in the way of settlement residuals that exceed 30K years and certainly nothing matching the proposed / purported mammoth bones said by some to be human-affected dated to 130K years. For the moment, it looks like Clovis did not derive from Solutrean technology from Europe as proposed, it really was near-parallel development. If Clovis tech were descended from Solutrean tech, we have another problem because there is no DNA in any existent Native American population dating from the same rough time, none. This means that somehow the Asian-descended "Native" tribes would have had to have understood and adopted the Solutrean technology yet killed every single European -sourced person so that there is ZERO DNA passed along. If Clovis technology was imported, it was into a continent already peopled by those using other technologies. Possible. Also possible it was derived in place .. that improbable but not impossible parallel evolution idea. South America is a different puzzle. One piece interesting to me is the yam / sweet potato. Apparently it is indigenous to the south pacific islands. I is maybe reasonable that some could have washed up on South America and taken root, but if so, why do the south American natives use exactly the same word as the south pacific islanders for it? This points to earlier contact than we currently think possible. We could ask why the Olmec heads' features appear sub Saharan African. Coincidence of artistry or .. familiarity with people from continents that shouldn't theoretically have been able to contact each other. We have to be a bit cautious about timelines though. A friend years back was sure that South American and African people migrated back and forth overland before the mid Atlantic Ridge took over. Hah hah, missed by a couple hundred million years. Oops. read it once and thanks... will read it again and thanks for the details... "NM goes back to about 23,000 BP..." What does 23,000 bP stand for and how does it relate to the Clovis culture? 2
Incorrigible1 Posted Wednesday at 04:14 PM Posted Wednesday at 04:14 PM 1 minute ago, georgerm said: read it once and thanks... will read it again and thanks for the details... "NM goes back to about 23,000 BP..." What does 23,000 bP stand for and how does it relate to the Clovis culture? 23,000 Before Present (now). "Science" actively discouraged speculation of human activity in N America prior to approximately 13,000 Before Present (Clovis culture). Such speculation led to careers being damaged, and was suppressed. The confirmation that the White Sands fossil footprints at 23,000 BP helped dash the stranglehold of the "None Before Clovis" dogma. Real science freed to pursue discovery of prehistoric N American human activity. 1 1
MIB Posted Wednesday at 05:03 PM Moderator Posted Wednesday at 05:03 PM 2 hours ago, georgerm said: read it once and thanks... will read it again and thanks for the details... "NM goes back to about 23,000 BP..." What does 23,000 bP stand for and how does it relate to the Clovis culture? BP is "before present". (a quick edit: for "BP" time, year 0 is 1950, so 200BP would be 1750.) The earliest Clovis points date to about 13,000 years ago. Having sites in North America 10,000 years before Clovis nullifies the whole "Clovis first" paradigm. Along with that idea was populating North America through an ice free corridor in the Cordilleran ice sheet. There was no ice free corridor 23,000 years ago. This more or less forces the populating of N.A. to have been by boat along the coast following the "kelp highway" rather than overland. Most of the artifacts from that route are under hundreds of feet of seawater today since the melting of the continental glaciers has pushed sea levels up that much. There were at least 4 periods in the pleistocene where there was a Bering land bridge rather than open water but we don't have any generally accepted evidence of human occupation going back to those earlier 3 periods. For now, the suggested, speculative very early "stuff" (100K years BP) seems to stand alone with no supporting evidence and most likely is wishful thinking, not evidence of human occupation. Possibility of 30K years could be inferred though. The important part is that Clovis technology was NOT the earliest in North America, people were here before Clovis technology was developed. Most likely, also, since there were already people here, Clovis, despite having strong similarity to Solutrean technology, is probably a North American development. With people already here, there should be strong genetic connection if the technology were imported. 1 2
georgerm Posted 16 hours ago Author Posted 16 hours ago On 1/2/2026 at 12:48 PM, georgerm said: "So why? Well this is the million dollar question right? I think that part of the problem is that the government never wants to admit to something they have no control over. “Hey guys, kinda hard to admit this now but there is a 8 ft tall primate running around North America….sorry we never mentioned this,” Norseman. You are hitting the nail on the head and well put Norseman. Maybe the Smithsonian's biologist just don't want to deal with public news about a North American primate that is human and we can't catch it or prove it. We have voted to keep it as a mythical creature. A certain percentage of Sasquatch reports written by many responsible individuals shows bigfoot is benign and secretive. Seems like 90% of the reports are peaceable with some pebble throwing, tree knock, house slapping, making stick structures, leaving footprints, peeking in windows, forest howls and other indications of Sasquatch but no one can prove of its existence. In the northwest section for North American bigfoot reports I write about catching bigfoot observing our "sleep out" under the stars near 1980. My friend Bill and I cut short timber for fence post all day then slept on a tarp under the stars, near Prospect, Oregon. Bill and I were harvesting Yew Wood posts for a farmer that needed quality fence posts for his field. I now realize 'mind speak' woke me from a deep sleep. I have posted at least 3 reports of this happening during a camp-out from around 1980. Now the government has a bigger problem …....... not only with Sasquatch living in family clans in remote forest throughout the United State but oh....bye the way, we can't capture or kill it with some of America's most skillful or skookum hunters. Skookum is a Pacific Northwest Native American word for Forest People's skill at living in challenging environmental conditions. There is a field report from Canada stating a bigfoot was shot and killed near a village. I will try to find the report.
georgerm Posted 15 hours ago Author Posted 15 hours ago 16 minutes ago, georgerm said: There is a field report from Canada stating a bigfoot was shot and killed near a village. I will try to find the report. Geographical Index > Canada > Manitoba > Report # 9552 Report # 9552 (Class A) Submitted by witness on Saturday, October 16, 2004. Moose hunter shoots "bigfoot" to death (Show Printer-friendly Version) YEAR: 1941 SEASON: Fall MONTH: November DATE: 16 PROVINCE: Manitoba COUNTRY: Canada LOCATION DETAILS: Approximately 15 miles west of Gypsumville, just southeast of Basket Lake. NEAREST TOWN: Gypsumville NEAREST ROAD: #328 OBSERVED: This report is submitted by BFRO member, Curt Nelson, and is based on two visits to and many phone conversations with the witness. The body of the report can be seen below. OTHER WITNESSES: No TIME AND CONDITIONS: Mid day Clear conditions Patchy snow on the ground ENVIRONMENT: Thick bush Follow-up investigation report: At the beginning of May of 2003 I took a trip into Manitoba to stay with a man with whom I’d been in telephone contact on and off for about a year. He was interested in sasquatch. Sasquatch in Manitoba, Canada, that province above western Minnesota and eastern North Dakota, which stretches north along Hudson Bay where polar bears make their living. It’s hundreds of miles of bush laced through with lakes – including the giants: Lakes Winnipeg, Manitoba, and Winnipegosis. In the winter it’s no place to be without a good plan, for keeping warm and fed and out of trouble, and the means to carry it out. Manitoba’s position in the upper middle of the North American land mass is too far from any reasonably warm winter grounds to imagine it as anything but the year-round home for animals found there, including sasquatch. The man, “Peter,” had become interested in sasquatch because he told me he knew for certain they are real, and that they live there in Manitoba. He knew this for sure, he said, because he had a chance to look at one up close, after he’d shot and killed it: he flipped its hand over with the toe of his boot to have a look at its palm. It was very large and there were five fingers – one a thumb, like a man’s hand, he said. The following account of the event came mainly from two visits I had with Peter: first in early May of 2003 when I stayed with him for three days, and in September of that year when he put me up again for two days. We also talked about the shooting incident several times by phone, before and since my visits. The word-for-word questions and Peter’s answers presented here were mostly from the May visit; we sat together in his home where he lives alone now. I taped our conversation. The reader will note a leading tendency in my questions. The prior discussions, I believe, are the cause of this. It happened the first week of November, 1941, 62 years ago, when Peter was 17 years old. He’d gone hunting for moose with two friends around Basket Lake, a small lake about 15 miles west of Gypsumville, the town near where Peter grew up and has always lived. The two friends hunted the east side of Basket Lake; Peter wanted to go to the west side, which he knew was good for moose and elk. There was patchy snow on the ground and Peter found ambling moose tracks criss-crossing the area, indicating feeding animals.
MIB Posted 15 hours ago Moderator Posted 15 hours ago 20 minutes ago, georgerm said: I think that part of the problem is that the government never wants to admit to something they have no control over. Not sure that isn't a Norseman quote, the way stuff was imbedded within imbedded within .. etc .. it may be wrongly attributed. The point, though, is there is another thing to consider. At this point if gov't admits they have been covering up bigfoot, we should ask what else they have been covering up. Not merely UFOs, but all manner of things currently being written off as conspiracy nonsense might have to be re-evaluated as truly being gov't coverup, not citizen mistake. That might be a can of worms big enough to justify continuing to pretend bigfoot does not exist. Said another way, if there truly is a bigfoot coverup, it is the coverup that is being hidden, bigfoot is merely collateral damage. MIB
georgerm Posted 15 hours ago Author Posted 15 hours ago 5 minutes ago, georgerm said: Geographical Index > Canada > Manitoba > Report # 9552 Report # 9552 (Class A) Submitted by witness on Saturday, October 16, 2004. Moose hunter shoots "bigfoot" to death (Show Printer-friendly Version) YEAR: 1941 SEASON: Fall MONTH: November DATE: 16 PROVINCE: Manitoba COUNTRY: Canada LOCATION DETAILS: Approximately 15 miles west of Gypsumville, just southeast of Basket Lake. NEAREST TOWN: Gypsumville NEAREST ROAD: #328 OBSERVED: This report is submitted by BFRO member, Curt Nelson, and is based on two visits to and many phone conversations with the witness. The body of the report can be seen below. OTHER WITNESSES: No TIME AND CONDITIONS: Mid day Clear conditions Patchy snow on the ground ENVIRONMENT: Thick bush Follow-up investigation report: At the beginning of May of 2003 I took a trip into Manitoba to stay with a man with whom I’d been in telephone contact on and off for about a year. He was interested in sasquatch. Sasquatch in Manitoba, Canada, that province above western Minnesota and eastern North Dakota, which stretches north along Hudson Bay where polar bears make their living. It’s hundreds of miles of bush laced through with lakes – including the giants: Lakes Winnipeg, Manitoba, and Winnipegosis. In the winter it’s no place to be without a good plan, for keeping warm and fed and out of trouble, and the means to carry it out. Manitoba’s position in the upper middle of the North American land mass is too far from any reasonably warm winter grounds to imagine it as anything but the year-round home for animals found there, including sasquatch. The man, “Peter,” had become interested in sasquatch because he told me he knew for certain they are real, and that they live there in Manitoba. He knew this for sure, he said, because he had a chance to look at one up close, after he’d shot and killed it: he flipped its hand over with the toe of his boot to have a look at its palm. It was very large and there were five fingers – one a thumb, like a man’s hand, he said. The following account of the event came mainly from two visits I had with Peter: first in early May of 2003 when I stayed with him for three days, and in September of that year when he put me up again for two days. We also talked about the shooting incident several times by phone, before and since my visits. The word-for-word questions and Peter’s answers presented here were mostly from the May visit; we sat together in his home where he lives alone now. I taped our conversation. The reader will note a leading tendency in my questions. The prior discussions, I believe, are the cause of this. It happened the first week of November, 1941, 62 years ago, when Peter was 17 years old. He’d gone hunting for moose with two friends around Basket Lake, a small lake about 15 miles west of Gypsumville, the town near where Peter grew up and has always lived. The two friends hunted the east side of Basket Lake; Peter wanted to go to the west side, which he knew was good for moose and elk. There was patchy snow on the ground and Peter found ambling moose tracks criss-crossing the area, indicating feeding animals. To get there, go to BFRO and find the Canada section. Now go to Manitoba and scroll down to Report # 9552. read the whole report here.
norseman Posted 12 hours ago Admin Posted 12 hours ago This may really throw North America history books a curve ball. 1
Huntster Posted 2 hours ago Posted 2 hours ago 12 hours ago, MIB said: ..........At this point if gov't admits they have been covering up bigfoot, we should ask what else they have been covering up. Not merely UFOs, but all manner of things currently being written off as conspiracy nonsense might have to be re-evaluated as truly being gov't coverup, not citizen mistake. That might be a can of worms big enough to justify continuing to pretend bigfoot does not exist.......... First, the policy of discouraging discovery can be pinned on dead guys...........policymakers who decided this decades (up to a century or more) ago. Those who finally disclose end up heroes. Secondly, yes, there are piles of issues that government keeps close to its vest. This is both wise and expected, and they can defend those decisions, even if you or I as individuals disagree strongly. Thirdly, yes, disclosure itself is a can of worms that supports continued silence, especially if they think they have morality on their side...........or can make a reasonable stretch toward that defense. Finally, I have actually come to believe that ignorance of these creatures by the vast majority of people IS the wise policy. Do you want to destroy something? Let everybody know it exists. People will screw it up pronto. Guaranteed.
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