Researcher, Hunter Or Socialite, What Are You?

[Guest tracker]

I participate in many Bigfoot forums in NA. One of the things I've noticed is how many members speak openly about hunting and killing all game and some predators on these sites. And there's lots of talkers and people who just like the science and also a few trolls. I guess it takes all types to keep a site up and running. How many of us have ponder some of these questions.

Are researchers and hunters just using each other to get an end result?

Are the hunters interested in the research just so they can understand more about their prey? Or are they truly converted into a researcher after they have gained more knowledge and understanding from these sites?

Have some researchers traded in their cameras for rifles to once and for all prove the myth and end the frustration?

How many are into this as an excuse to buy and use their toys? or to get dressed up like Rambo and go crashing through the woods?

How many are into this for the social aspect just to chat it up with others? Or enjoy camping with a twist? And hope they never really run into one, except from a safe distance?

Then there's the debaters or trolls who enjoy antagonizing others and never have set foot in the back country in search of Sasquatch. But love talking large because they have read a few books and are good at arguing.

Are you truly a researcher if you have more weapons than recording devices or vice versa?

What would you reach for first when your become scared during an encounter a weapon or a recording device?

Is it for the thrill of the hunt? or is it to be apart of something thats not mainstream, do you care one way or the other? Or is it just an ego boost?

Sure there's going to be some members with combo's but one will out weigh the others. Which one are you?

Edited October 29, 2010 by tracker

[Guest]

I think the terms "research" and "researcher" are far too widely used in this field. To me, this implies full time, fully sanctioned investigation of a subject by specific means and within recognized or mutually agreed upon parameters within the community of the study to a specific end, usually to benefit human-kind in general.

That pretty much rules out lay people running around the woods at night call blasting, recording sounds,and whatever else, then jealously sitting on anything signicant they might come up with as it might get the next guy closer to proving the critter up. And God forbid, release something that might inadvertently help someone in the pro-kill camp dump one, thereby putting all lay-"researchers" out of business.

It doesn't mean that if you do release something, it's on an internet forum, blog, or facebook to satisfy one's ego, or release info of a hoax in some lame-assed effort to make a few bucks before you get debunked. Clearly there is a money to be made as a "bigfoot expert", at least until such time as the critter is recognized and established science & game management experts take over.

I would classify myself as a hunter with an interest in the animal as a natural offshoot of my interest of the outdoors. In years past I made my share of field trips to snoop & poop in states/areas of reported activity with the sole goal of satisfying my personal interest and with an eye toward killing one if a chance encounter offered the opportunity. Now days time, personal committments, & money prevent me from doing many trips for this purpose, so I satisfy my interest by correspondence with buddies who have them in their states and who go out snooping & pooping, and by visiting places like the BFF.

My goal in killing one was primarily to pet it and say "wow"! because the thought of an unacknowledged & unclassified alpha predator like this running in the wild places kind of scares me a bit. After sufficient petting I would figure out how to bring it to public light for the good of all.

So being, I don't really see myself fitting into any of the catagories provided by the thread starter...

Edited October 29, 2010 by NDT

[Guest]

Then there's the debaters or trolls...love talking large because they have read a few books and are good at arguing.

Wow. Are you saying that good debaters who've educated themselves are the same as trolls?

I need clarification before I can answer your question. Thanks.

[Guest fenris]

You missed Enthusiast, researchers would imho need some kind of credentials. Beyond that I've always been dubious of Hunters wanting anything more than the glory of 'bagging" one, and the socialites, I have no real issue with until egos come into play. That raises the possibility of poser, there have been a few along the journey who claim to 'get into the field', however cooking smores around the campfire at basecamp isnt the same as getting out there and looking. That involves, like it or not, going into potentially difficult and getting bit up by bugs, or freezing your arse off, etc.

That doesnt make you a researcher but that's what looking involves and that is without getting into the whole how to properly interview a witness dynamic. As my previous poll had some suggestions tweaks (And I will get back to that btw), this one might as well.

[Guest Lesmore]

I participate in many Bigfoot forums in NA. One of the things I've noticed is how many members speak openly about hunting and killing all game and some predators on these sites. And there's lots of talkers and people who just like the science and also a few trolls. I guess it takes all types to keep a site up and running. How many of us have ponder some of these questions.

Are researchers and hunters just using each other to get an end result?

I think that there are many that are self appointed 'researchers', who take themselves far too seriously when it comes to 'debating' and seem quick to brand others who don't share their particular belief. Many who tout themselves as researchers, I would not classify as researchers, they don't have the academic background or the necessary professional discipline.

However it doesn't necessarily take academic background. I think this quality can also be substituted if an individual has a combination of self taught research skills, has done a number of readings from a variety of sources, knows how to 'weigh' evidence' and view things with a balanced perspective. Also it is critical that the individual, is able to regard issues with an open mind and not just assemble a number of thoughts, that always lead to self fulfilling prophecies.

Are the hunters interested in the research just so they can understand more about their prey? Or are they truly converted into a researcher after they have gained more knowledge and understanding from these sites?

Have some researchers traded in their cameras for rifles to once and for all prove the myth and end the frustration?I don't agree with shooting a Bigfoot, if this beast truly exists.

Unless you are in a situation where you are defending your life, or the life of others, I cannot see any justification for shooting a BF. Again all this is predicated on whether such an animal exists.

I have been an outdoorsman for many years and have always used camera equipment. I don't, nor have I ever used point and shooter style cameras, I have always used 35mm SLR's or digital DSLR's with telephoto lens.

I know how to use firearms and I'm not anti-gun. However I cannot support untrained or indifferently trained and undisciplined individuals who go into the forests ...ready to shoot at anything that moves and have a shoot first, ask no questions later attitude.

These individuals are not 'hunters' .

My father taught me from an early age in the care and use of firearms. He was a Sergeant-Major in the Canadian Armed Forces during WW 11 and one of his duties was as a weapons instructor for troops.

He prioritized responsibility in weapons handling.

I read a lot about individuals clamoring for their rights, when it comes to many things, weapons included.

Very rarely do I read about individuals also addressing their responsibilities when it comes to many things, guns included.

I realize I was fortunate to have the father I did. Another thing he taught me, was that in a democracy we have rights.

But he also taught, that in addition, we have responsibilities and one of those responsibilities, is to ensure that our 'rights' don't infringe on the rights of others.

In my 60 odd years on this planet, I feel that there needs to be more concern about responsibilities, on a variety of issues...including weapon handling.

How many are into this as an excuse to buy and use their toys? or to get dressed up like Rambo and go crashing through the woods?

When I read some of the 'bench racing' stories among the 'Rambo' set, that seem to unfurl at many sites, it's enough to curl my toes.

I want to avoid these individuals in the forests. As a result of reading posts, also watching these individuals in action, I clearly understand why the colour... hunting orange for vests, hats and yes...'hunting orange' toilet paper has become necessary.

How many are into this for the social aspect just to chat it up with others? Or enjoy camping with a twist? And hope they never really run into one, except from a safe distance?

Then there's the debaters or trolls who enjoy antagonizing others and never have set foot in the back country in search of Sasquatch. But love talking large because they have read a few books and are good at arguing.

Are you truly a researcher if you have more weapons than recording devices or vice versa?

What would you reach for first when your become scared during an encounter a weapon or a recording device?

Is it for the thrill of the hunt? or is it to be apart of something thats not mainstream, do you care one way or the other? Or is it just an ego boost?

Sure there's going to be some members with combo's but one will out weigh the others. Which one are you?

I don't fit any of these descriptions.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Lesmore

[Guest tracker]

Hey, WTb1

Good catch i meant to say debaters and trolls. I tried to give a good cross section but if there's some other types go ahead add them in to your post if it fits your personal

NDT you sound like a hunter? and I agree the term researcher should only apply to someone that only wants to study them.

In earlier days hunters(pro kill) and researchers (conservationist) didn't mix to well, to say the least. Now we meet in forums and swap info sometimes. The grey area between the two types has widen considerably.

Someone in another post, I think in the thread After you kill one than what or something like that? Mention those two cowardly hunters who claim to have wounded one and left it screaming in pain and didn't have the courage to go into the tree line and finish it off. Instead they bolted for their truck in fear and left it where it lay bleeding out. Was their intention from the begining to kill it not just scare it away. They were tough enough to bring weapons to back up their courage. I guess their balls must of fallen off after it's first scream of pain? What did they think it was going to be like shooting a black bear? If the story was true, I would gladly hunt down those two limp pricks myself and make them one way or another finish what they started. F'''king amateurs. Pls excuse my french but reports like that calls for such language.

Anyways I could use some help locating that report for dicussion in this thread. That got me thinking about the real reasons every walk of life is into this subject. thanks.

Edited October 29, 2010 by tracker

[Guest]

I don't think I'm a mainstream bigfoot person at all. I'm one of the few that knows it is real and am deathly afraid of it. I live vicariously through those that actually have the nerve to go out and look for it. Any opinion I have is based on what I've read; reports, books, and related subjects, or have been told by the witnesses that I know. I consider myself a bigfoot fan with a healthy dose of respect for the creature, whatever he may turn out to be.

[Guest Yeti1974]

I'm a 1. researcher/fan, 2. who wants to watch more closely about evidence when it comes in, 3. who has zero ego (and is quite smug about it) and 4. who is very much against the "Bigfoot is a scary monster who will eat me" attitude, feeling that it negatively impacts the cause.

[norseman]

I live in squatch country. I live about 20 miles down river from Bossburg, Washington.

I never go out "in search" of a Sasquatch.

I go out in search of cougar, bear, deer and elk.....and hopefully some day I draw a moose tag. I also fish, scout new areas, cut firewood, ski, have panned for gold before and just generally make the forest my home as much as possible.

As you can imagine as a hunter, I try not to miss much "trace evidence" that animals leave behind. And I'm fair at tracking game, and have recovered a animal after two days of tracking. I don't track men, and I'm not involved in law enforcement in anyway although I have several books on the subject.

But if I did cut the tracks of a squatch, I would make a effort to track it, and possibly collect a type specimen. If I for some reason didn't have a gun, I'd probably take a picture of it, but would have ZERO faith that it would prove anything to anybody. I think pictures, video, foot casts, hair samples, etc of good standing and reputation are numerous and ultimately inconclusive.

So from my standpoint I really don't understand the mindset of non kill "researchers" spending all of their time and energy collecting evidence that science has already rejected. If it's your hobby and something you love and enjoy? Hey, it's a free country and more power to you.

And I've read many stories of people's interaction with them and know all of the supposed behavior associated with them. I.e. They stink, they whoop, they tree knock, they like water estuaries, they throw things etc.

Most of my observing "researcher" footage, leaves me doubting most of these peoples stories. I saw one you tube video that was obviously a deer kill, that the "researcher" claimed was a scene in which a squatch had given himself a hair cut with a broken bottle. Because there were no bones in the area, and a bottle right there, it's rather obvious right? Ummm no. But if you don't see winter deer kill scenes often, I guess if you believe in sasquatch it would make perfect sense.

Or another one is what I call forest divots. They find a squatch sized impression in the ground with no track way and it's immediately a squatch track. You know its so old it's full of pine needles and no toe marks and there is only ONE.

Or pine cone tossing....I've seen guys video tape pine cones dropping out of the forest CANOPY and think that a squatch is throwing pine cones at them. Unless a 800 lbs animal is directly above you (more like a 1 lbs squirrel) dropping cones on your head? What do you think that might be? And do you see evidence of a 800 lbs animal going up any of these trees? If you have never treed anything with hounds it might not occur to you that animals leave trace evidence of going up a tree the same way as walking on the ground. A 800 lbs animal is not going to climb a tree without evidence, and in the case of bears, that animal is too big to climb trees in the first place. The risk of falling is too great, because evergreen branches are too brittle (with the possible exception of a Ponderosa pine) and to sparse down low along the bole.

These are just specific examples of misidentifying what is going on, from my perspective. Although I'm sure there are many "researchers" out there that are very good, and very competent.

As far as this story about two hunters shooting one and then running away? I highly doubt this story is true. All I can say is that if I was in that situation and felt threatened enough that I needed to make a hasty retreat? I would at least have the spot marked on a map, gps, etc. So that I could go back, with LE agents, whatever. But I would make a very very hard push to collect SOMETHING off of the type specimen before retreating out of the area.

[Guest TooRisky]

He also missed the guys and gals that do this for a fun hobby... I consider myself a serious hobbyist though do call myself a researcher...

[Guest midnightwalker1]

I am like a guy who enjoys visiting a foreign country because he finds the people fascinating. Only these people also leave me in awe and often teach me a new twist to the mystery as I visit more often. I started as a researcher (just curious of this enigma) and have ended up more into the experience. I also get a kick at visiting other people's areas and making connections with their sas while they experience stuff they've never experienced OR they change their mind entirely about who the forest people actually are. The latter is where I get most of my passion and excitement but certainly I enjoy my core areas and groups of forest folks.

I have no qualms about discussing things that are taboo in the "bigfoot world" as long as they happened to me and I am certain So many people say "You're going to say that in public? People will laugh at you." I can honestly give a darn about what other people think as long as I know that I am being truthful and not embellishing. When I do things in this fashion, I can defend my claims with confidence. Bottom line is this crap isn't going to make you rich and I don't include it in the equation of my going out there in the middle of the night to visit with the forest folks. I do it because it's enjoyable.

As for folks that like to slam others, I can generally see right through them. When you know what it takes, you can see right through those that don't have it. Simple as that. I have lots of friends that have what it takes and they know that I am solid in the field and a very loyal friend. I don't need to impress the world. I just stay true to my word, my faith, my family and my friends. Does that make me a researcher? Nope. I guess I traded in my camera and recorder (for the most part) so I can learn more while I am out amongst these enigmatic people

Edited October 29, 2010 by midnightwalker1

[Guest LittleFeat]

midnight - Fortunately or unfortunately, the BF community looks at everyone interested in unraveling the mystery as a "researcher". We all use different approaches and some are arm-chair researchers either by choice of because they can no longer get out in the field. I happen to use an approach similar to yours, but I have not had nearly the same amount of success as you. I've always backpacked, hiked and camped to recharge my batteries. Connecting with nature is my most powerful reason for entering the woods and I try not to alter that in anyway. I've never carried more than a small knife, bear bells and bear spray into the woods because I think that someone who has a weapon presents themselves in a different way - I like to look as vulnerable as possible while I go about my business. I also minimize the electronics that bring with me to just my SPOT, GPS and cell phone for emergency situations - no cameras, trailcams, etc, because I don't really give a hoot about proving anything to anyone. My approach is based on Robert Morgan's suggestions and I have a lot better time relaxing in the woods than stalking around looking for evidence. Can I PM you to discuss a few things?

[Guest midnightwalker1]

midnight - Fortunately or unfortunately, the BF community looks at everyone interested in unraveling the mystery as a "researcher". We all use different approaches and some are arm-chair researchers either by choice of because they can no longer get out in the field. I happen to use an approach similar to yours, but I have not had nearly the same amount of success as you. I've always backpacked, hiked and camped to recharge my batteries. Connecting with nature is my most powerful reason for entering the woods and I try not to alter that in anyway. I've never carried more than a small knife, bear bells and bear spray into the woods because I think that someone who has a weapon presents themselves in a different way - I like to look as vulnerable as possible while I go about my business. I also minimize the electronics that bring with me to just my SPOT, GPS and cell phone for emergency situations - no cameras, trailcams, etc, because I don't really give a hoot about proving anything to anyone. My approach is based on Robert Morgan's suggestions and I have a lot better time relaxing in the woods than stalking around looking for evidence. Can I PM you to discuss a few things?

Sure.

[gigantor]

I grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere. Fished, milked cows, rode horses and mules, drove tractors, setup irrigation pipes, hunted squirrels and hares and deer and wild pigs, etc. I know the woods well, spent a lot of time in them and never encountered anything like a BF or any sign of it.

Then I moved to the city (after college) and I'm out of action. However, I do get to "debunk" the claims of BF sightings within my range. There are people claiming BF sightings in/around Fort Meade, MD!!! I think I've debunked these successfully (if only the old BFF threads were available). I could do so again though.

So, am I a researcher? No. Am I a hunter? not anymore. Am I an enthusiast? perhaps.

I still go out with my girl on camping and hiking trips, but I'm restricted by her willingness.

I think what I am is a hopeful skeptic, I don't believe BF exists but hope to be proven wrong. I keep hanging around hoping someone will produce a "slab monkey" one of these days. Until then, I try to keep people honest by challenging the most outrageous claims.

Edited October 30, 2010 by gigantor

[Guest TooRisky]

I am like a lot or "researchers"... We are not hell bent for leather charging into the woods with nothing but finding, recording, and proving this species exist's... On the contrary I consider it a great camping, bonding with dear friends and if we find some evidence a bonus type outing... We have had some fantastic experiences Mojo and I, hell we have laughed hard at some of our experiences that I would not trade for any thing, and shook our heads in the wonder and awe at others and there have been quite a few....

I have always said you cannot explain fully what happens in the field, ya just have to get out there and live it... Find a fun/serious/active group and you will have the time of your life...

Edited October 30, 2010 by TooRisky