A Ground-Breaking Study Of An Unknown Language From Sierra Sounds

[Guest LittleFeat]

Does anyone know what happened to the book that was supposed to be released on the Sierra Sounds?

http://www.bigfootsounds.com/

[Guest LittleFeat]

The book was announced a few years back, but I haven't heard anything else recently about Scott Nelson studying the Sierra Sounds tapes.

Moderators, have you heard anything regarding the status of the book?

[Guest]

One would guess that since it cannot be proven that the Sierra Sounds were from Bigfoot, that Mr. Nelson cannot prove that Bigfoot has language.

[Guest LittleFeat]

John - Thanks for your reply.

That would seem to be the case because all information about the book ceased. I've read that Nelson developed a phonetic alphabet from his study of the Sierra Sounds tapes and has done some presentations about his study, but what about the book? Hmmm, kind of makes me wonder.

[Guest]

LittleFeat,

My understanding is that Scott Nelson is planning to publish his findings on the Sierra Sounds website.

Pteronarcyd

[Guest]

I was able to spend some time with Ron and Scott this last June at the OSS. What they are doing really is fascinating if you take the time to understand it. Not so easy if you just read some paper and have no basis for following what they experienced in the field or have no similar experiences of your own. I suspect that any delays in a book have to do with their trying to incorporate as many other recording conclusions from other researchers as they can.

I will also say that those who discount what they are doing probably have little direct experience with Sasquatch sounds and still likely from the old school big-ape crowd. Well, they are certainly more then some giant ape, and trying to reconstruct their language is cutting edge.

My take is that when they were out there on a ridge in the middle of the night high up in the Sierras where you know you are alone, and you are interacting with what you have already seen other evidence to validate your suspicions, there isn't much question for the researcher that its bigfoot. Maybe some 'won't' trust the researchers conclusions, but that's your loss to not explore more.

It really comes down to that some people won't accept they are more then just apes. They don't dare attribute complex language to the species, because that would violate this limited belief system. There are many elements surrounding Sasquatch and our not growing our knowledge base that seems to hinge on not openly considering they may be more then just an elusive giant ape. Getting past that blockage will allow the field to grow in many ways. But of course science may have trouble eventually getting around that issue too, but nobody said it would be easy.

Complex language is an amazing concept to consider. More power to Ron and Scott for what they are trying to piece together.

[Guest]

There you go again, with your assumptions. You know what happens when you assume, right? It doesn't matter to me if Bigfoot is a big dumb elusive ape, a psuedo hairy human with language who you enjoy a telepathic commune with, or a UFO driving, worm hole jumping, Chewbacca. I only require documentation or proof of any theory. PROVE IT.

I only want answers. I don't care what those answers are. Stop the talking and start the proving.

[Guest Spazmo]

There you go again, with your assumptions. You know what happens when you assume, right? It doesn't matter to me if Bigfoot is a big dumb elusive ape, a psuedo hairy human with language who you enjoy a telepathic commune with, or a UFO driving, worm hole jumping, Chewbacca. I only require documentation or proof of any theory. PROVE IT.

I only want answers. I don't care what those answers are. Stop the talking and start the proving.

JC, why can't PT discuss and/or speculate about the work of others? He is not obligated to provide you with proof, is he?

This is a Bigfoot Forum, where we come to talk about the subject. "Stop the talking and start the proving" is not what the forum is about, right?

[Guest]

Well JC, I'm not quite sure what answers you are looking for? There is little PROOF out there, you know that by now. But if you don't speculate at what they are, I doubt you will ever be able to connect the dots on pieces of evidence we do have.

EXACTLY what are you looking for proof of JC? You already know they exist. You've seen one right? According to the article, you've dealt with nightmares as a result of that encounter. Maybe you're being too strict with yourself? Maybe you should care what they are, because that might help you answer some of the questions you are really trying to answer? Even scientists often realize that not everything is in black and white. Jane Goodall even recognizes that telepathy probably exists even tho her peers came after her for that too. There's a lot of 'grey' area in our universe JC.

Proof always begins with a theory. Theories have to gel and ferment to grow and validate themselves. Demanding proof NOW will not make it form any faster. Theorizing is how we go through the process of elimination and work towards conclusions. That requires patience and open-mindedness.

[Guest]

JC, why can't PT discuss and/or speculate about the work of others? He is not obligated to provide you with proof, is he?

This is a Bigfoot Forum, where we come to talk about the subject. "Stop the talking and start the proving" is not what the forum is about, right?

Your right

[Guest]

Well JC, I'm not quite sure what answers you are looking for? There is little PROOF out there, you know that by now. But if you don't speculate at what they are, I doubt you will ever be able to connect the dots on pieces of evidence we do have.

EXACTLY what are you looking for proof of JC? You already know they exist. You've seen one right? According to the article, you've dealt with nightmares as a result of that encounter. Maybe you're being too strict with yourself? Maybe you should care what they are, because that might help you answer some of the questions you are really trying to answer? Even scientists often realize that not everything is in black and white. Jane Goodall even recognizes that telepathy probably exists even tho her peers came after her for that too. There's a lot of 'grey' area in our universe JC.

Proof always begins with a theory. Theories have to gel and ferment to grow and validate themselves. Demanding proof NOW will not make it form any faster. Theorizing is how we go through the process of elimination and work towards conclusions. That requires patience and open-mindedness.

Well JC, I'm not quite sure what answers you are looking for?

Scientific documentation of the species.

There is little PROOF out there, you know that by now. But if you don't speculate at what they are, I doubt you will ever be able to connect the dots on pieces of evidence we do have.

Speculate away, but don't come like it's fact and I will not call you on it.

EXACTLY what are you looking for proof of JC?

See above answer.

You already know they exist.

Who cares what I know?

You've seen one right?

Yes

According to the article, you've dealt with nightmares as a result of that encounter.

Correct

Maybe you're being too strict with yourself?

Always

Maybe you should care what they are, because that might help you answer some of the questions you are really trying to answer?

For the third time, I only have one question.

Even scientists often realize that not everything is in black and white.

The bad scientists.

Jane Goodall even recognizes that telepathy probably exists even tho her peers came after her for that too.

Why should I care what a primate expert thinks about telepathy?

There's a lot of 'grey' area in our universe JC.

But my world is black and white.

Proof always begins with a theory. Theories have to gel and ferment to grow and validate themselves.

No theories need to be presented in papers supported by evidence and submitted for peer review to be validated.

Demanding proof NOW will not make it form any faster.

Right.

Theorizing is how we go through the process of elimination and work towards conclusions. That requires patience and open-mindedness.

or just plain objective thought and good field work.

[Guest]

JC, I fear you are setting yourself up for finding no solution to the answers you want/need. Yeah your smart, have listened to all kinds of bigfooters, heard all the theories and stories. But why do I feel like you are fighting something? I feel somewhat uncomfortable raising your personal nightmare issue tho, but I guess I should ask, is that something you are comfortable talking about in an open forum? I wanted to respect your privacy in that respect. Obviously you've addressed such in the interview I read so maybe it isn't a concern for you?

I wonder about this because I wonder if you feel that documentation will resolve it? Assuming you still have them of course? If so, I doubt it will.

Please bare with me here... obviously you have a certain perspective about what constitutes 'research' and what is or isn't black and white. Take your below responses:

Even scientists often realize that not everything is in black and white.

The bad scientists.

There's a lot of 'grey' area in our universe JC.

But my world is black and white.

Eighty years ago it was blasphemy for a scientist to raise the concept of other dimensions. It would be tantamount to a scientist going over the edge and not considered good science. Einstein was one of the few who could get away with it. Back then, it was not black and white science either. But how many scientists subscribe to these concepts today? Now modern science believes there are as many as 11 different dimensions, something I find it difficult to fathom.

My point is, what may be grey area today, may be black and white tomorrow. That's just progress of our intellect. And all these eventually proven ideas DO begin with theories. And while 'other dimensions' are proven yet (at least to us), that's the paradigm of where modern science rests today. It began with one theory and has evolved and grown through the input of many. As I've made mention of before, one of the goals of the Hadron Supercollider IS to prove that these other dimensions do in fact exist. All based on a simple theory.

You don't get to prove things until you exhaust and work through theories JC. I assume you can agree with that? Many of the ones we are figuring out, are becoming tangible enough to draw patterns. At least when different researchers share and work together to test these ideas. That's what has to go into forming conclusions and eventually proof. I had assumed you as a researcher were part of this growth process? Or is it just ideas you can agree with that only you've experienced? Not everyone has the same experiences, but I don't omit individuals actual experiences out of hand. People viewing them as ape really is a theory that has less tangible support for it. The theories of them being human are coming about due to specific observations and yes, good field work. Just not field work you have participated in.

You may be a black and white person, but finding the cause of something like prior (or existing) nightmares, isn't going to come from a black and white solution JC.

What do you feel that scientific documentation of the species will achieve for you in that respect?

Best wishes, I mean it.

Dave

[Guest]

While I have no doubt that Scott Nelson is a very talented and capable cryptolinguist, and is sincere about his findings, and that he has identified a form of language in these sounds... I have only one problem. The sounds in the Sierra Sounds CD have not yet been proven to be made by a BF, yet... ahh, that I know of anyway.

I've heard some amateur recordings from the field, that also have the "samurai chatter" like mumbles, and have found that fascinating, and comparable to the Sierra Sounds CD. For now... it's real interesting, and something exciting to talk and think about.

Forming some kind of a BF alphabet and language.. is jumping the gun a bit, IMO. Kind of like putting the cart before the horse...so to speak. That's what concerns me about this mystery, the most... is maybe never getting to know for sure, what this thing can do , and if anyone's recordings or stories might have come from it's vocal chords.

I'd say, you would have to.. have a live one, and witness the sounds coming from it. This seems like an impossible feat (to me) to accomplish now.. as did men walking the moon, and watching a movie from the back seat of his car, probably seem to my grandfather.

[Guest]

JC, I fear you are setting yourself up for finding no solution to the answers you want/need. Yeah your smart, have listened to all kinds of bigfooters, heard all the theories and stories. But why do I feel like you are fighting something? I feel somewhat uncomfortable raising your personal nightmare issue tho, but I guess I should ask, is that something you are comfortable talking about in an open forum? I wanted to respect your privacy in that respect. Obviously you've addressed such in the interview I read so maybe it isn't a concern for you?

I wonder about this because I wonder if you feel that documentation will resolve it? Assuming you still have them of course? If so, I doubt it will.

Please bare with me here... obviously you have a certain perspective about what constitutes 'research' and what is or isn't black and white. Take your below responses:

Eighty years ago it was blasphemy for a scientist to raise the concept of other dimensions. It would be tantamount to a scientist going over the edge and not considered good science. Einstein was one of the few who could get away with it. Back then, it was not black and white science either. But how many scientists subscribe to these concepts today? Now modern science believes there are as many as 11 different dimensions, something I find it difficult to fathom.

My point is, what may be grey area today, may be black and white tomorrow. That's just progress of our intellect. And all these eventually proven ideas DO begin with theories. And while 'other dimensions' are proven yet (at least to us), that's the paradigm of where modern science rests today. It began with one theory and has evolved and grown through the input of many. As I've made mention of before, one of the goals of the Hadron Supercollider IS to prove that these other dimensions do in fact exist. All based on a simple theory.

You don't get to prove things until you exhaust and work through theories JC. I assume you can agree with that? Many of the ones we are figuring out, are becoming tangible enough to draw patterns. At least when different researchers share and work together to test these ideas. That's what has to go into forming conclusions and eventually proof. I had assumed you as a researcher were part of this growth process? Or is it just ideas you can agree with that only you've experienced? Not everyone has the same experiences, but I don't omit individuals actual experiences out of hand. People viewing them as ape really is a theory that has less tangible support for it. The theories of them being human are coming about due to specific observations and yes, good field work. Just not field work you have participated in.

You may be a black and white person, but finding the cause of something like prior (or existing) nightmares, isn't going to come from a black and white solution JC.

What do you feel that scientific documentation of the species will achieve for you in that respect?

Best wishes, I mean it.

Dave

JC, I fear you are setting yourself up for finding no solution to the answers you want/need.

Me too.

Yeah your smart,

That's debatable, ask my ex.

have listened to all kinds of bigfooters,heard all the theories and stories.

Yes, everyone from Janice Carter to Dr. Meldrum.

But why do I feel like you are fighting something?

I am fighting for the truth. I am fighting to get the job done.

I feel somewhat uncomfortable raising your personal nightmare issue tho, but I guess I should ask, is that something you are comfortable talking about in an open forum? I wanted to respect your privacy in that respect. Obviously you've addressed such in the interview I read so maybe it isn't a concern for you?

No, I don't want to talk about that here.

I wonder about this because I wonder if you feel that documentation will resolve it?

No I don't feel that will resolve it.

Assuming you still have them of course? If so, I doubt it will.

Yes, I still have them and I agree.

Please bare with me here... obviously you have a certain perspective about what constitutes 'research' and what is or isn't black and white. Take your below responses:

Quote

Even scientists often realize that not everything is in black and white.

The bad scientists.

There's a lot of 'grey' area in our universe JC.

But my world is black and white.

Eighty years ago it was blasphemy for a scientist to raise the concept of other dimensions. It would be tantamount to a scientist going over the edge and not considered good science. Einstein was one of the few who could get away with it. Back then, it was not black and white science either. But how many scientists subscribe to these concepts today? Now modern science believes there are as many as 11 different dimensions, something I find it difficult to fathom.

My point is, what may be grey area today, may be black and white tomorrow. That's just progress of our intellect. And all these eventually proven ideas DO begin with theories. And while 'other dimensions' are proven yet (at least to us), that's the paradigm of where modern science rests today. It began with one theory and has evolved and grown through the input of many. As I've made mention of before, one of the goals of the Hadron Supercollider IS to prove that these other dimensions do in fact exist. All based on a simple theory.

You don't get to prove things until you exhaust and work through theories JC. I assume you can agree with that? Many of the ones we are figuring out, are becoming tangible enough to draw patterns. At least when different researchers share and work together to test these ideas. That's what has to go into forming conclusions and eventually proof. I had assumed you as a researcher were part of this growth process? Or is it just ideas you can agree with that only you've experienced? Not everyone has the same experiences, but I don't omit individuals actual experiences out of hand. People viewing them as ape really is a theory that has less tangible support for it. The theories of them being human are coming about due to specific observations and yes, good field work. Just not field work you have participated in.

I don't care what the technique entails as long as it brings results. I will try anything, and don't think I have not tried many things. So far no luck...

You may be a black and white person, but finding the cause of something like prior (or existing) nightmares, isn't going to come from a black and white solution JC.

What do you feel that scientific documentation of the species will achieve for you in that respect?

See above answer.

Best wishes, I mean it.

You too

Dave

Edited November 26, 2010 by JohnCartwright

[Guest]

JC, why can't PT discuss and/or speculate about the work of others? He is not obligated to provide you with proof, is he?

This is a Bigfoot Forum, where we come to talk about the subject. "Stop the talking and start the proving" is not what the forum is about, right?

Spazmo, allow me to step in here as a member and not a MOD.

You are correct that this forum is for the discussion of bigfoot/sasquatch, and we want members to feel free to tell their stories and recount their experiences.

As a member, I do not like for another member here to belittle other members with an attitude that, because they "claim" to have an experience with a bigfoot-like creature, that somehow makes them more knowledgeable concerning these creatures than the rest of us.

Making statements such as:..... "I will also say that those who discount what they are doing probably have little direct experience with Sasquatch sounds and still likely from the old school big-ape crowd.".....is a posting boldness that will only bring them derision from other members, especially those that have had experiences different from the ones that member had.

As a member that has had his own experiences with bigfoot-like creatures, I do not appreciate another member posting statements that, in affect are saying, I don't know anything about the creatures I came in contact with and that essentially I must be mistaken in what I witnessed for myself.

The creatures that I have come in contact with do not look human, they look like an ape. Another member has no business on this forum telling me, or anybody else, that what I saw wasn't an apelike creature, and that I am wrong from considering them an ape.

If the creatures that the other member claims to have seen look more human to him, then good for him. It is not my place to tell him that he is wrong in what he saw.

Personally, I feel Mr. Cartwright's frustration. And I would hope that our members, that claim to have had an experience with a bigfoot-like creature, would understand that they don't know anymore about these creatures than the rest of us.

Now, back to topic. I will really be glad when we can get the old forum threads posted for posterity here. There was already some outstanding discussion of the Sierra Sounds.

I don't believe that Scott's Nelson's attempts to formulate a phonetic alphabet from the Sierra Sounds is "ground breaking" and won't be worth more than the paper it is written on. But if he can sell a book from it, more power to him.