Do You Believe The "jacko" Story?

[masterbarber]

No photos, no remains, I voted no. Maybe Tirademan could find another copy of this Newspaper from around the same time period to see if any photography was featured in it or how prevelant pictures are in it. Surely, they would have made some arrangements to photograpgh this one of a kind creature.

[Huntster]

Here are some comments on the JACKO story

Nineteenth Century skeptics/denialists.

Some things never change.

[Drew]

Nineteenth Century skeptics/denialists.

Some things never change.

Yep, some things never change.

[Guest]

.

Why would that be so certain? How big was Yale in 1882? How prevalent was photography in British Columbia in 1882? Are there any other photos from 1882 era Yale, BC, by a resident photographer?

...and nobody at the time was carrying a camera around with them like we do now. Photography was difficult. Are there any pics of the area at the time? If there are none or very few, then it stands to reason that photography might not have been easily available at that particular time and place.

Good points gentlemen, I hadn't thought of the posible rarity of a camera in such an out of the way place. Cameras back then were a far cry from what's available today. What do you think about the description of the creatures hair, forearm length, and great strength? Surely these details lend a bit of credibility to the story.

[Guest ChrisBFRPKY]

A few things I've always thought gave the story some credibility:

1. The description of Jacko: Gorilla like- long forearms, longer than a human being- covered in black hair.

2. extremely strong, breaks sticks by twisting them. (hmmm, now that seems kinda like something we've almost all come to accept.) Bigfoot creatures are likely to break sticks/limbs by twisting as there is ample evidence of this being an accepted behavior/action (accepted Bigfoot behavior among field researchers that is).

3. Jacko's vocalizations described as half bark half growl, very interesting.

4. The location rings true to me as well.

I think it's possible they did capture "something" and by the description I'd say matches pretty good with a youth Bigfoot creature, but the description comes really close to a chimpanzee as well. I've always considered "Jacko" was either a creature or a chimpanzee.

Chris B.

[Huntster]

What do you think about the description of the creatures hair, forearm length, and great strength? Surely these details lend a bit of credibility to the story.

Indeed, especially the long forearms and the twisting motion to break sticks.

Another thing that lent validity to the story was the liberal use of people's names, including the trainmen who captured the creature, and the "keeper" of the animal.

[Guest Lesmore]

About the newspaper:

About Yale:

Thus, Yale was only accessible to the Victoria newspaper via riverboat or the train during the rail construction period, and it was at least a 125 mile run by rail. And the "Daily Colonist" may not be either the "Times Colonist" or the "British Colonist" mentioned in the Vitoria Times Colonist history page. It may have been a small, competing newspaper that simply disappeared, and never had a photographer.

Yes....lot's of things to ponder, that's for sure. I'm not really sure what they found, or if they found anything, etc.

One possibility I wondered about when I first read the story of Jacko...many years ago, was whether Jacko...going by the size was whether Jacko was an escaped monkey, young chimp (don't know their size...either adult or while developing)...some kind of ape, not necessarily Bigfoot.

Trigger for this thought was the fact that the article listed the height and weight of this 'half man- half beast.

The fact that this creature was not identified as belonging to a a particular monkey or ape family, is perhaps not that unusual.

Gorillas were only known to science a short time before this incident.....so I'm not sure how many individuals in this frontier area would be familiar with say a Chimpanzee...or similar sized monkey or ape.

The story indicated that around 200 people flocked to see it. Interesting as that would indicate the human population, although not huge, had some substance in numbers....to draw this kind of number.

Some possibilities I've often wondered about, include....was the animal in question...Jacko... an escapee from a small traveling carnival or circus.

Or an unlikely pet, that had got too big and difficult to manage for it's owner, or maybe it was a shipwreck survivor...either the mascot of the ship, or more likely live cargo, earmarked for a carnival or circus and made it's way inland.

I don't think zoo's were that common back then and carnivals and circuses sort of filled the function of a zoo, albeit a traveling zoo, to small bergs throughout North America.

Remember PT Barnum's circus brought Jumbo the Elephant, etc...to America....might of been one of the first elephants over here. Of course P.T's circus was among the biggest in the world...but smaller circuses and carnivals would have smaller, exotic animals to draw the paying customer.

I don't know. We in all probability never will know.

As a result, I voted I don't know.

Possible that it was a young Bigfoot, if BF, does exist...or at least did exist many years ago.

After all....although I'm a skeptic....I'm of the open minded variety.

Les

Edited November 16, 2010 by Lesmore

[Guest]

Ships do not carry cargo for free. A bill of lading or receipt of some type should have been written to the community. Either the City, Court, Province or other Jurisdiction would have to pay to ship this cargo to London. The record of such shipment could be buried somewhere in archives. Also, since the cargo perished and was buried at sea ( tossed overboard ) I'd think some notification would be due the shipper of the cargo as well as the intended recipient.

[BobbyO]

Where are its bones? Any proof of its existence other than in print?

Great questions form the " otherside " looking for answers from 120 plus Years ago..

Wasn't the feeling that the creature died on route to London & got buried at Sea ??

If so, there's your answer for your first question River & second what do you want as an answer for your second, a youtube Vid ??

[Huntster]

Yes....lot's of things to ponder, that's for sure. I'm not really sure what they found, or if they found anything, etc.

One possibility I wondered about when I first read the story of Jacko...many years ago, was whether Jacko...going by the size was whether Jacko was an escaped monkey, young chimp (don't know their size...either adult or while developing)...some kind of ape, not necessarily Bigfoot.

Food for thought:

So what about bringing a live gorilla back from Africa? After Charles Darwin published On the Origin of Species in 1859, the public clamoured to see these mysterious primates. But gorillas proved fragile in human hands, and appeared particularly vulnerable to pulmonary ailments. The few that reached Europe almost invariably died shortly after their arrival. America, with its even longer sea voyage, failed to get hold of a live gorilla until 1897, and that one died four days after landfall. The misery of captured gorillas was so apparent, and their mortality rate so appalling, that in 1908 the London Zoo finally refused to buy them; a decision that would stand until 1932.

Victorian showmen had fewer scruples. They knew that a gorilla meant money, whether it was genuine or not, and so they happily showed off any ape they could get their hands on as a "gorilla". But in one of the great odd twists of ape history, it seems one live gorilla had already toured England without anyone realising it.

In 1855, a strange sort of chimpanzee was kept by George W. Wombwell’s famous travelling menagerie. "Jenny" survived a few months before dying of pneumonia in Scarborough in March 1856. The dead creature was promptly sold to Charles Waterton, an eccentric naturalist-***-taxidermist. Waterton was fond of creating fanciful "nondescripts" from assemblages of animal parts, and so Jenny’s skin was altered and stuffed to form a hideous horned simian sculpture titled – for Waterton was an ardent Catholic – Martin Luther After His Fall.

But what the menagerie had been touring with was not a chimpanzee at all. Later examination revealed that Jenny was a juvenile gorilla. The remains of the first gorilla to live outside Africa now survive only as a bizarre taxidermic joke in the Waterton Collection at the Wakefield Museum in Yorkshire. It would be decades before any other gorilla survived in Britain for as long as Jenny had. And so it was that squalling babies, runny-nosed urchins and exasperated mothers unwittingly witnessed the world’s rarest captive animal, and for a few pence on English village greens were granted a sight denied to the most respected men of science.

The problem with that thought is that Jenny had been acquired by the P.T. Barnum of England through unknown means, and Jacko was said to be found unconscious on a railroad track in British Columbia, and lost at sea on his way to become what Jenny had become; a side show attraction, and all along, and in both cases, "the most respected men of science" were completely ignorant of or careless about the situation.

I don't think zoo's were that common back then and carnivals and circuses sort of filled the function of a zoo, albeit a traveling zoo, to small bergs throughout North America.

Remember PT Barnum's circus brought Jumbo the Elephant, etc...to America....might of been one of the first elephants over here. Of course P.T's circus was among the biggest in the world...but smaller circuses and carnivals would have smaller, exotic animals to draw the paying customer.

I studied the real Grizzly Adams, who lived and operated during this precise era. He caught and tamed grizzly bears in the West, and entertained California gold seekers during the gold rush, and eventually sold his "show" to P.T. Barnum as he was literally dying from the wounds the bears had inflicted upon him.

Yes, this was fairly common then, and I suppose it's possible that Jacko was a gorilla, or even a chimp.

But I doubt it (at 127 lbs and <4' tall). Call me a skeptic............

[Guest Lesmore]

Food for thought:

It is interesting information. Reminds me of the Coelecanth, which of course was thought to have died out many years before, until a scientist discovered one at a fish market in Madagascar, in 1938.

We do live in a big world and not every corner and alley has been thoroughly explored.

The problem with that thought is that Jenny had been acquired by the P.T. Barnum of England through unknown means, and Jacko was said to be found unconscious on a railroad track in British Columbia, and lost at sea on his way to become what Jenny had become; a side show attraction, and all along, and in both cases, "the most respected men of science" were completely ignorant of or careless about the situation.

I studied the real Grizzly Adams, who lived and operated during this precise era. He caught and tamed grizzly bears in the West, and entertained California gold seekers during the gold rush, and eventually sold his "show" to P.T. Barnum as he was literally dying from the wounds the bears had inflicted upon him.

Yes, this was fairly common then, and I suppose it's possible that Jacko was a gorilla, or even a chimp.

But I doubt it (at 127 lbs and <4' tall). Call me a skeptic............

I found this link which provides some average weight / height that different members of the ape family attain. Height is not too difficult to match...weight more difficult. Although I suppose the weight of Jacko may either be reflective of whether he/she was emaciated or heavy...depending on what ape he/she may have been, assuming he/she wasn't Bigfoot.

However there is lingering doubt on my part that Jacko was a BF....mostly because in the ensuing (many) years....not much has been found to confirm the BF existence.

But that doesn't mean that a BF didn't / doesn't exist, or that Jacko perhaps was a young BF.

I'm not saying there isn't a BF, just saying so far I'm not...completely... convinced, based on all information to date.

In the end, I really don't know and I think many are in a similar boat, as I.

Les

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CC8QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fanthro.palomar.edu%2Fprimate%2Fprim_7.htm&rct=j&q=apes%20size%20weight&ei=u1bjTLfPDMrPngffl8zWDg&usg=AFQjCNEfnOdk9TlbuLXzdddf3f7sy2AYOw&cad=rja

Edited November 17, 2010 by Lesmore

[Guest]

No offense intended, but I'm a tad surprised that the posters on this topic (excluding Drew) don't seem to realize that the "Jacko" story has been dismissed (if not debunked) by prominent Bigfoot advocates. To quote Loren Coleman's conclusion: "Unfortunately, a whole new generation of hominologists, Saquatch searchers, and Bigfoot researchers are growing up thinking that the Jacko story is an ironclad cornerstone of the field, a foundation piece of history proving that Sasquatch are real. But in reality Jacko seems to be a local rumor brought to the level of a news story that eventually evolved into a modern fable."

(BIGFOOT! The True Story of Apes in America; page 42).

[MagniAesir]

I have no reason not to believe the story.

Indeed, one of the realities I always considered about this story was that the news reports mentioned the possibility that the creature may have been a "gorilla", and that gorillas had only been "discovered" less than 25 years before, and that Yale, BC, was about as remote a location as one might find in 1882. Nobody there had ever seen a gorilla before.

Hunster

Yale wasn't all that remote, it was the jumping off point of prospectors getting off paddle wheelers.

Yale, BC was once the largest city north of San Francisco and west of Chicago. The gold rush boomtown has now dwindled in population but the history remains. Originally established as a trading post for the Hudson's Bay Company, it grew with the gold rush and became the main terminal for one of the largest stern wheeler routes in North America.

You are right though I doubt many of the people living in or passing through Yale had seen a gorilla.

Today Yale is about a 2 hour drive from Vancouver (non-rush hour traffic)

[MagniAesir]

http://historicyale.ca/

Here is a picture of old Yale

[Guest Kerchak]

http://historicyale.ca/

Here is a picture of old Yale

Proof.

That's Jacko, second on the left in the hat.