Guest RayG Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 If necessity is the mother of invention... That leaves language as a necessity. In order to hunt cooperatively language would be very helpful. In this case I think they developed language in order to hunt. Why would it be necessary for them to develop language in order to hunt? Wouldn't they be at the top of the food chain? Able to run as fast or faster than any elk or deer, stronger than any bear, and supposedly so smart, us poor humans haven't a chance of tracking them or bagging one? So no, I don't see why language would be more preferable to shelter, tools, or warmth. RayG
Guest OntarioSquatch Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 I remember Dr. Ketchum said they chatter with each other. Smeja reported the same thing. So did Albert Ostman...
Guest RayG Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 So do monkeys. Dogs bark at one another. Hyenas cackle. Elephants trumpet. Lions roar. Doesn't mean any of them a structured language. RayG
bipedalist Posted July 29, 2012 BFF Patron Posted July 29, 2012 ...and open cans of beans, but they haven't figured out how to make a lean-to? They can make a helluva good bean burrito though RayG, you just don't want to share that campfire: Like they say, why rub two sticks together when you can just let 'er rip! http://youtu.be/nyVsHNEBeBk
Guest Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 I can say for certain that Nelson wasn't just transcribing sounds, but was definitely trying to translate them. I heard it myself and it was getting so deep that I had to turn off the show because I could not believe what I was hearing. It was a while back when I just started looking deeper into things. I came across a Blogtalk show with Alex the Midnight Walker, some lady, and Mr. Nelson was a guest. They started playing all of these garbled voices that were not the Sierra Sounds, but sounds that Alex MNW had "recorded" himself. To me they sounded like a slowed down synthesizer and absolutely super-fantastically fake. So they were saying that these creatures were repeating certain phrases and they were possibly words like "food" and "more" and I cringed so much I had to turn it off. If I hadn't seen one of these things with my own eyes, and thought this was all that was out there in the way of evidence, my username might be something like SuperSkeptic right now. I guess to be generous, I would just say that a lot of work needs to be done in this field yet.
bipedalist Posted July 29, 2012 BFF Patron Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) And yet, Samurai is real. Might not be "ready for primetime" ala Finding Bigfoot (but it SHOULD be)..... but science and any researcher with their salt that gets close enought will not argue the point. You don't need a Ph.D., Ed.D. in reading to figure it out, a J.D. to deliberate it and definitely don't need a Ph.D. in linguistics to find it out, just a little intensive field time. Edited July 29, 2012 by bipedalist
southernyahoo Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Why would it be necessary for them to develop language in order to hunt? Wouldn't they be at the top of the food chain? Able to run as fast or faster than any elk or deer, stronger than any bear, and supposedly so smart, us poor humans haven't a chance of tracking them or bagging one? So no, I don't see why language would be more preferable to shelter, tools, or warmth. RayG I think of language as an adaptation. I also think mimicry is hard wired into the aquisition of language. You've raised 11 kids Ray, and you probably watched each one of them learn to mimic a word before they knew it's meaning and use. http://library.thinkquest.org/C004367/la1.shtml The mainstream view is that language is an adaptation, evolved in response to some selection pressure toward improved communication between humans. This explanation is associated with many speculative possibilities and proposals for the adaptive function of language, and some (such as Steven Pinker) postulate "mental modules" that compartmentalize linguistic functions. There are many different possible "adaptationist" explanations for the evolution of language. For instance, perhaps there was a need for improved communication between hunters at some point in the history of Homo sapiens, and oral expressions were simply the optimal way to solve the problem. More plausibly (or at least more importantly), sharing information between individuals probably conferred an extremely major advantage: groups of humans with language, or even "proto-language", could share a wealth of information about local hunting conditions, food supplies, poisonous plants, or the weather. It would be extremely beneficial to the survival of all members of the tribe if only one had to encounter a poisonous plant, rather than each member having to rediscover the fact for himself! It is also simple to imagine a series of "oral gestures", perhaps indicating the presence of an animal to another person by imitating the animal's cries. Steven Pinker suggests in his book The Language Instinct, "Perhaps a set of quasi-referential calls . . . came under the voluntary control of the cerebral cortex [which controls language], and came to be produced in combination for complicated events; the ability to analyze combinations of calls was then applied to the parts of each call" (p. 352). Another possible source of selection pressure towards better linguistic abilities is the social group. Social interactions between people with widely divergent or conflicting interests "make formidable and ever-escalating demands on cognition" (Ibid, p.368). Increasing cognitive ability could easily have focused on the improvement of language as well, since so many social interactions depend on effective persuasion.
BobZenor Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) I can say for certain that Nelson wasn't just transcribing sounds, but was definitely trying to translate them. I heard it myself and it was getting so deep that I had to turn off the show because I could not believe what I was hearing. It was a while back when I just started looking deeper into things. I came across a Blogtalk show with Alex the Midnight Walker, some lady, and Mr. Nelson was a guest. They started playing all of these garbled voices that were not the Sierra Sounds, but sounds that Alex MNW had "recorded" himself. To me they sounded like a slowed down synthesizer and absolutely super-fantastically fake. So they were saying that these creatures were repeating certain phrases and they were possibly words like "food" and "more" and I cringed so much I had to turn it off. If I hadn't seen one of these things with my own eyes, and thought this was all that was out there in the way of evidence, my username might be something like SuperSkeptic right now. I guess to be generous, I would just say that a lot of work needs to be done in this field yet. Your statement about translating the sounds isn't at all clear. Saying the sounds might possibly represent words like "food" or "more" is hardly translating it. That would be the obvious assumption assuming they were a hominid and if humans are actually an evolved hominid. Part of that previous statement must be silly? It should be the default assumption that they are a hominid if they exist in my opinion. Then the notion that it is silly for them to have language could only come from humans not actually evolving? Edited July 30, 2012 by BobZenor
Guest OntarioSquatch Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 I remember Dr. Ketchum said they chatter with each other. Smeja reported the same thing. So did Albert Ostman... To add, Is it any coincidence that Dr. Meldrum's Snelgrove Lake blood sample came back as human except with some variants? That Dr. Ketchum would register feralhumanproject.info and proceed to write a small summary about how human they are? That they walk upright and swing their arms? That their feet are almost identical to ours? Is it a coincidence?
Guest Transformer Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 And yet, Samurai is real. Might not be "ready for primetime" ala Finding Bigfoot (but it SHOULD be)..... but science and any researcher with their salt that gets close enought will not argue the point. You don't need a Ph.D., Ed.D. in reading to figure it out, a J.D. to deliberate it and definitely don't need a Ph.D. in linguistics to find it out, just a little intensive field time. The Samurai were the military nobility of pre-industrial Japan. What does that have to do with sasquatch?
Guest BFSleuth Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 ^ "Samurai" in the context of this thread refers to "Samurai chatter", which is a description of the sounds of BF talking. SC has been used to describe the Sierra Sounds and other recordings. You can use the search feature on the BFF or Google the phrase with "bigfoot" and I'm sure you will find a wealth of hits.
georgerm Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 "Samurai chatter" is a particularly ignorant statement that sounds racist and stupid at the same time. The Samurai were Japanese and spoke Japanese. Has anybody of Japanese descent identified these sounds as a Japanese dialect? I'm betting a solid no. "Chatter" is an offensive thing to say about anybody's language. 1. To talk rapidly, incessantly, and on trivial subjects; jabber. 2. To utter a rapid series of short, inarticulate, speechlike sounds: birds chattering in the trees. 3. To click quickly and repeatedly: Our teeth chattered from the cold. 4. To vibrate or rattle while in operation: A power drill will chatter if the bit is loose. http://www.thefreedi...ary.com/chatter I suggest that ignorant, racist descriptors be removed from the sasquatch lexicon and that we start with this one ASAP. Transformer, this description was never intended to be racist. The chatter part relates to BF and the way they speak and not the Samuri. Someone thought the BFs used a Samuri accent and chattered. This term stuck and has been used ever since. I recall in one of Nelsons presentation, he described BF language as having an Asian accent. It does not imply that Japanese Samuri chattered because they spoke as any other human. Witnesses describe BF language as nonhuman but a form of advanced primate chatter. The honorable Samuri of course are hightly cultured humans, and they speak and don't chatter, Hope this clears up the misunderstanding. If not PM me please. In the meantime listen to the audio sounds that I posted earlier in this thread. So let's get past this and back to discussing BF speaking.
Guest BFSleuth Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Well said, georgerm. Transformer, I also agree that the term "Samurai chatter" is .... less than gracious to say the least. I would prefer that another monicker had been applied early on to the Sierra Sounds recordings, but that's what happened. So when I noted that if you google "samurai chatter" you will note that several suggested sasquatch or bigfoot search terms come up. As southernyahoo and bipedalist have pointed out the term SC is now commonly known in the BF community. Regarding how the recordings sound to me, I think at times there is a degree of similarity to Korean or Japanese. There are some percussive and guttural elements to the sounds. As such I can understand how the SC monicker was started.
Guest Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Your statement about translating the sounds isn't at all clear. Saying the sounds might possibly represent words like "food" or "more" is hardly translating it. That would be the obvious assumption assuming they were a hominid and if humans are actually an evolved hominid. Part of that previous statement must be silly? It should be the default assumption that they are a hominid if they exist in my opinion. Then the notion that it is silly for them to have language could only come from humans not actually evolving? I was responding to posts in the thread that were saying he was not assigning meaning to sounds, only transcribing them. And yes, this could absolutely be very meaningful and useful work, if there was some way to know how was on the other end of the synthesizer. . err.. microphone. So I do stand by what I said. Trying to deciper meaning from sounds that The Midnight Walker said were bigfoot, seems like a stretch.
Guest BFSleuth Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Blogtalk radio about BF vocalizations 8/1/12 @ 6 pm (not sure of time zone): http://www.blogtalkradio.com/bigfootfieldreporter/2012/08/02/voclaizations Guest speakers: Stan Courtney, Scott Nelson, and Emily Gaydos Should be informative and right up the topic of this thread.
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