Guest BlurryMonster Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) I think there's a huge difference between the concepts of a giant, hairy almost-human and a human that transforms into a wolf. Way too much difference to consider them the same thing; it would be like saying a thunderbird and a griffon are the same thing because they're both big and have wings. Or that a centaur and a sphynx and the same thing because they have animal bodies. They also seem to serve completly different functions to me, from the perspective of folklore*. Bigfoot is usually presented as: a kind of boogeyman, a kind of graceful, benevolent forest spirit (or "brother" to us, or something along those lines), or something that just exists and doesn't have explicit values placed around it. Werewolves, on the other hand, are always negative (well, not counting Twilight). A reflection of the dark side of human beings. They're people that turn into murderous beasts to show that we can be murderous animals, too, when circumstances make us. At least, that's the way I see the two, and those are very different concepts. The comparison just doesn't work for me. *Lets try to keep the "real or not" debate out of here for a while - I'm talking about the folklore sorrounding both of these creatures, and I think we can all agree that folklore does not reflect fact. Whether they're real or not, folklore about them is going to be subject to lots of influences in order to make it fit some societal need. That's how folklore works. Edited March 18, 2012 by BlurryMonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ajciani Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 While shape shifting may be part of some versions of the werewolf legends, it is not a necessary part of being a werewolf. A werewolf may be an anthropomorphic wolf, a man that has permanently been transformed into a wolfman (like the wendigo or chenoo), or a man that transforms back and forth. Following from the above, it is certainly possible that people saw bigfoots or yetis, and identified them as wolfmen. BTW, as near as I can tell, the N.A. version of shape shifting is better described as an instantaneous magical transformation, as a trick of escape or deception, rather than a forced metamorphosis. This is also in line with shape shifting in eastern myths, or the whims of Greek gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BFSleuth Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I think the werewolf legend, among others, may be stories told by our ancestors trying to make sense of the hairy hominids in the forest. They are fast, strong, hairy predators that howl in the night. Ergo werewolf, the wolf man to some people. Others may have described it as Pan, trolls, or the boogerman. BF (I will use "BF" to describe hairy bipedal unknowns around the world) is frightening because it casts all those old legends and folk tales in a new light: the "scary monster in the forest" is real. Some of the emotional stress people describe after a sighting comes from the sudden realization that their world view is "turned upside down". The boogeyman is real. The troll is real. The werewolf is real. Big, fast, strong, and hairy. Oh my! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeG Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) A werewolf may be an anthropomorphic wolf, a man that has permanently been transformed into a wolfman (like the wendigo or chenoo), or a man that transforms back and forth. Sorry, is this your theory or are you re-stating myths? - Can any sane human really suggest that a mammal can transform itself into another mammal at will? Really? Has ONE single documented observation ever been made of one animal turning itself into another one? No? Well, let's just be sensible then shall we........... I'll bet your house that shape-shifting legends arose from something like the following scenario: human (or sasquatch) observed running into a wood........wolf observed immediately running out from the same place. Once that is reported back to the tribe, and "shape-shifting" is accepted as real by the hierarchy, then all sorts of makey-uppy nonsense becomes available. Every little bit of oddness in the shadows can then be mis-interpreted as "spirit"....."ghost"........"shape-shifting".....whatever. This mythology spreads and becomes accepted, with no proof, but is reinforced every time one animal runs into the woods and another runs out in the same place. Then gullible unquestioning white man comes along looking for wisdom from the First Nation people, and just absorbs uncritically this tosh, forgets everything that he should have learned at school, and repeats it as fact on internet fora. Presumably then gets quite cross when someone points out the ridiculousness of the whole idea. Mike Edited March 19, 2012 by MikeG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Transformer Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 While shape shifting may be part of some versions of the werewolf legends, it is not a necessary part of being a werewolf. A werewolf may be an anthropomorphic wolf, a man that has permanently been transformed into a wolfman (like the wendigo or chenoo), or a man that transforms back and forth. Following from the above, it is certainly possible that people saw bigfoots or yetis, and identified them as wolfmen. BTW, as near as I can tell, the N.A. version of shape shifting is better described as an instantaneous magical transformation, as a trick of escape or deception, rather than a forced metamorphosis. This is also in line with shape shifting in eastern myths, or the whims of Greek gods. The Wendigo has never been assocoated with werewolves or sasquatches except in the imaginations of people trying to fit their beliefs about sasquatch or werewolves into First Nation legends to try and give them more credibility. The idea of transforming into a Wendigo was a human becoming a murdering madman because of eating human flesh and having an insatiable desire to eat more. It is a cautionary tale to enforce the very very strict taboo in the First Nations culture about consuming human flesh. There is no authentic First Nation description of a Wendigo looking wolflike or being a giant hairy biped. When Windigos are described they are like starving humans who get bigger when they eat another human and theat is how they become giants. They are not hairy but skeletal and rotting like the fictional zombies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 "The wendigo is a cold climate creature that's been spotted in Canada and in northern states like Minnesota. Some locals who've encountered the beast consider it a relative of Bigfoot, but reports describe the beast as more of a werewolf than a Sasquatch. Ethno-historian Nathan Carlson says the wendigo is often described as a creature with owl-like eyes, large claws and an emaciated body. Others describe it looking like a skeleton with ash-toned skin. This strange being is said to live alone in the forest and feeds on human flesh. The Algonquian tribes called the wendigo the "spirit of lonely places," and they blamed many unsolved disappearances at the turn of the 20th century on wendigo attacks." Yes that is the correct definition of a Windigo, but aren't Wendigos and Windigos two different things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Transformer Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Wendigo and Windigo are the same myth and the confusion could lay in the fact that different people heard the words and spelled them differently. I still cannot understand where they are getting any reference to werewolves because at no time has Wendigo ever been described as hairy except by revisionists trying to fit the myth into european folklore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ajciani Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Wendigos take multiple forms depending on the specific tribe or tribal group. I think the Ojibwa version was the one that originated the cannibal version. The Iroquois may have added the giant aspects, or the Ojibwa may have borrowed it. There are many versions, and I would suggest you read "The Many Faces of the Wendigo". This reviews the various wendigo myths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Transformer Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 So your argument is based on a unqualified person who makes his living as a creative writer who uses an internet search for images and then writes about artistic interpretations of a creature that the author categorically states is at best mythical and at worst fictional? Direct quote from the beginning of the article: When I first chose to write this essay on artistic interpretations of the Wendigo phenomena, I had no idea what a challenge I was in for. I had neglected to take into account the fact that the Wendigo is, essentially, at best mythical and at worst fictional. Because of this small fact, pictures, paintings and other images that capture the essence of the Wendigo are rather hard to locate. There is absolutely no way the authentic First Nation legends of the Wendigo have anything to do with sasquatches or werewolves and any attempts to try and link them are completely off base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 (edited) I think the werewolf legend, among others, may be stories told by our ancestors trying to make sense of the hairy hominids in the forest. They are fast, strong, hairy predators that howl in the night. Ergo werewolf, the wolf man to some people. Others may have described it as Pan, trolls, or the boogerman. BF (I will use "BF" to describe hairy bipedal unknowns around the world) is frightening because it casts all those old legends and folk tales in a new light: the "scary monster in the forest" is real. Some of the emotional stress people describe after a sighting comes from the sudden realization that their world view is "turned upside down". The boogeyman is real. The troll is real. The werewolf is real. Big, fast, strong, and hairy. Oh my! Awsome post BFSleuth! I just read through this thread for the first time in a few months and i got to say some really great idea's and information were being thrown around here. I guess what i was trying to point out in my OP is that we know so little about BF. I made a comparison to the werewolf due to the fact that it is believed to be another large, man shaped, harry creature. However it is my personal belief that many Bf sightings are passed off as simple bear sightings etc. I personally believe that if the majority of humans on this planet were put in a situation where they seen a large hairy creature move through the forest, they would pass it off as a known species of large mammal. Very few would have the nerve to claim they saw a BF or werewolf. I know for a fact that most of my friends and family members have no idea and pay no attention to BF at all. If they were put in that situation they would more likely then not pass it off as a sighting of a known animal, unless it was a definitive face to face encounter which is rather rare due to the obvious intelligence and elusiveness of these creatures. If people around the world would give more credence to this subject, i believe there would be a lot less misidentification when regarding Bf sightings. The majority of people in this world have no idea this thing exists, a large number of well educated people refuse to believe it, a very very small portion give the subject any credence what so ever, and a very select few are lucky enough to have had a good enough sighting to know for a fact. If awareness of the creature was really raised, the amount of sightings would sky rocket IMO, as if there weren't enough sightings already. It is still my personal belief that there are more BF sightings misidentified as being other creatures then there are other creatures being mistaken to be BF, and i think that is a big reason why this creature has been able to successfully stay hidden for this long. If the world would begin to better understand and believe the existence BF, as some of us have, i think the tales of the windego, the werewolf, and the wildman would began to fade, as we would begin to realize that these are BF encounters, they may just be behaving very differently from the way we've come to expect a BF to behave. Let's face it we know next to nothing in terms of actual facts about this particular subject. Edited June 30, 2012 by Caesar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OntarioSquatch Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 I believe the OP raises a good point. I have little knowledge on Werewolf sightings, but I would take a look at the areas where they occur and see if Bigfoot sighting happen in the same general area. Misidentification is a possibility though. I was watching a show called Northern Mysteries and it told of an account where a couple driving on a road at night witness something speed right across the road. They described it as a werewolf, but it also matched the description of a Sasquatch. So I think it's possible people might confuse Bigfoot with other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 When I watched that episode of Monster Quest about the dogmen, I got the impression that they might have been seeing bigfoot instead of "werewolves", especially when they had the one guy say he saw a bigfoot in the cemetery, which was in the same area as all the other sightings. All that aside I think the werewolf legends spawned from that condition (i can't recall the proper term for it) where the person grows thick hair all over their bodies.acually now that I think about it, that too could be a reasonable explanation for the legends of bigfoot. Just throwing it out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 This was posted on BF evidence, here is the whole story from the Bigfoot Field Journal http://bf-field-journal.blogspot.com/ Monsters Are Real – The Dogman Post by: Scott Carpenter I left everyone hanging with a teaser about the cryptids that moved into my research area last year. I will “let the cat or better dog out of the bag†and tell my story. Still Capture of the Dogman on 05/22/2011 (This is not from the HD footage) It all started on March 27, 2011. I was in the public research area doing my thing. I had visited the stick shelter and worked my way to the island crossing. I was looking across to the island and filming. I also had the “back trail†camera on my shoulder filming behind me. Unknown to me at the time a dark figure was standing in the vegetation beside the thick and overgrown trail. The figure was dark brown-black and approximately six feet tall. I did not know this “thing†was behind me until I reviewed my back trail footage the week after my research visit. To my horror about five feet behind me was standing a creature of myth! These things just do not exist, this cannot be! I replayed the video over and over. My mind did not want to process what my eyes were seeing. There was no doubt it was real. It moved several times in reaction to me turning my shoulders and when I did turn around it ducked down! I finally had to admit to myself I had HD footage of a “Dogman†less than five feet behind me! I stepped through the footage a frame at a time. The snout clearly visible, the nostrils moving and wet as it was breathing! The right eye was plainly visible and moving! It was watching me! It could have taken me out anytime it wanted too. I had no clue it was within arms or claws reach of me! I showed the video to some trusted friends and respected Bigfoot researchers. The reactions were mixed. Some did not want to deal with it, others were ecstatic and could not believe it. The most common comment I received was “wow, if you had a close up of a Bigfoot like that you’d be rich!, to bad it’s a Dogmanâ€. It became clear that most were not ready for the reality of the Dogman. We are all so consumed with Bigfoot, hair collection, getting video footage, and DNA that we frankly did not know what to do with this thing. A cryptid no one really wanted to deal with. The main concern was and still is that this would “muddy the water†or be a detractor from the DNA Study. We are trying to “scientifically prove†the existence of Bigfoot and then this Dogman literally pops its head up! This is why I am extremely reluctant to release video and still captures at this time. I am being totally honest with you on this. I’m not trying to pull a fast one or be like the others that promise footage never to produce it! In hindsight I should have never mentioned it in my YouTube video, but I was trying to give the viewer the full story of my research area and when, where, and why. That is why I said it was a “teaserâ€. I wanted you to know I had other cryptids interfering with my research. It is hard to stuff this genie back in the bottle! My blog post on 06/27/2012 was an attempt to give the informed follower hints to the cryptids identity. The story gets even better because these Dogmen were not content to just stand behind me. On May 22nd, 2011 I was back in this area, firearm at the ready, as I was putting up some hair traps and setting out bacon in a jar. The bacon in a jar was an attempt to get fingerprints. I had the lid on tight but had cut holes in the lid so the smell of fresh bacon was heavy in the air. I had the feeling I was being watched and it was not a good feeling, I felt threatened! I see something dark black about 30 feet in front of me so I take my video camera and zoom in on this black object. My heart starts pounding and I draw my weapon and chamber a round! The black object is a Dogman! It is looking at me from around a tree. It is in heavy vegetation so I am looking through my viewfinder on the camera zooming in and out trying to get it in focus and see it better. Then its ears move, like when a dog hears a sound and begins twisting its ears, I look up over the top of the camera and make direct eye contact with this thing, I get a sick bad feeling! I look back down at the camera trying to get a better shot of the Dogman when my brain finally kicks in and I literally say so myself “What the heck are you doing!! Get out of here now, stupid!!!. I slowly begin to back out, running attack scenarios through my head. “If he charges on all fours stay calm aim for the head and shoulders, stay calm, squeeze off the shots deliberately, if he is on two legs center massâ€. I was convinced I was going to be attacked! To my surprise I was able to back out of the area without incident. My wife had dropped me off on this day, needless to say I called her to come get me immediately and she found me already on the road out of the area, walking fast, gun still drawn, “white as a sheet†as she put it. This is why I no longer go into that area alone and unarmed. That was the first time in my life since my military service I felt my life was in imminent danger! Claw Mark On Tree I went back the following week and found that the Dogman had jumped up on the side of a tree so it could look at me above the thick cover. I found the bark had been torn off the tree and there were deep “claw†marks in the tree. Dogman in National Park I thought this was the last time I would hopefully encounter these Dogmen, but later that year in June 2011 my back trail camera again caught a Dogman watching me from behind. This time I was in the National Park. I am sure the Park Service would not be happy if this news got out! This time the Dogman was farther away and well hidden. Close Up Dogman in National Park Negative of Dogman So there it is, the full story and my reasons why I am keeping the videos and most of the still captures private for now. I think I have given you enough to know I am not pulling some sort of “bait and switchâ€. In time after the DNA study is published more will be forth coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronD Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 If it was 5 feet away why is the image so blurry? And can we see the HD footage please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kronprinz Adam Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 A few years ago I asked just about this same question on these forums. Most did not agree that Bigfoot/Werewolves sightings could be related. To me it seems logical to believe people could be seeing the same animals yet call them different things... Hi Micahn!! I was thinking (besides Wendigos, shapeshifters and dogmen, which I find very scary)....what about european legends? Antiquity had plenty of representations of "satyrs", foklore had woodewasa and basajauns, middle ages have hairy hermits, and now we have caucasian almastys, kaptars and mongolian almas... Are all of these the same creature? A hairy, flat-nose neanderthaloid? What if the people of middle ages also associated for a while these creatures with legendary "werewolves"? I think, if Woodewasa really existed in historical times, there is a little chance for a witness to mistake a hairy neanderthaloid he saw in a wooded area, with a werewolf... But unfortunaltely, there is no solid proof, just medieval records, legends and foklore... Best regards. K. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts