Skookum Cast In A Nut Shell

[Guest]

With regard to the elk presence and top predator vocalizing.. my first take is what is the window of time that this occurred and how do we know that the elk were anywhere near the area when that happened ? They might have come in from a significant distance after that series of observations given the distance that many of these species move.

Edited January 26, 2011 by treeknocker

[Guest]

I have one question about Lay/Wallow.

Would/Could Elk use a Truck Turnaround, with a Gravel Road surface like that was, as a Lay/Wallow ??

It's not a truck turn-around to an elk BobbyO, its just an open area at night where they feel safe. As I mentioned in the other thread, which this one will only end up duplicating it seems, elk use roads all the time. Yeah I hunt elk and when you hunt them, you are more inclined to see this behavior because you are up at 4 AM and attempt to sneak into different locations where they are still bedded. Often times on the way, you run into elk bedded down along the road, or minimally you come across their beds still evident in the snow or mud. That's the reality of elk, they DO NOT avoid roads at all cost as some who are not familiar with the species might want to believe.

Again, this isn't a wallow we are looking at, its just a temporary mud hole that you find on the sides of logging roads all over the PNW, and oftentimes are made muddy by vehicles. Originally this was either a landing for logging equipment or a passing lane/turnaround. There is bound to be mud there, but that does not make it a wallow as some have shown pictures of. Again, if it were a wallow, you would see evidence of a well worn hole and thrashing sign.

Hope this helps.

[Guest]

With regard to the elk presence and top predator vocalizing.. my first take is what is the window of time that this occurred and how do we know that the elk were anywhere near the area when that happened ? They might have come in from a significant distance after that series of observations given the distance that many of these species move.

Because Thom said the reason that the fruit was put there in the first place was because there were no tracks at all. The site was clean. And obviously they didn't come in after the fact, because there were people there since morning when the impression was discovered.

[Guest]

Experts HAVE looked it over. Pgs 112-123 in LMS documents the finding, casting, and examination of the Skookum impression. -Mulder

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Unless there is some earth shattering surprises that ruin the previous reviews, I go sasQ.

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PT, my comments were in response to the question about when the vocalizations were heard.. and frankly, I do not recall when that was or how it coordinated to elk presence. I just recall the interest the indentations in the substrate that were cast that was generated and by whom.

Edited January 26, 2011 by treeknocker

[BobbyO]

It's not a truck turn-around to an elk BobbyO, its just an open area at night where they feel safe. As I mentioned in the other thread, which this one will only end up duplicating it seems, elk use roads all the time. Yeah I hunt elk and when you hunt them, you are more inclined to see this behavior because you are up at 4 AM and attempt to sneak into different locations where they are still bedded. Often times on the way, you run into elk bedded down along the road, or minimally you come across their beds still evident in the snow or mud. That's the reality of elk, they DO NOT avoid roads at all cost as some who are not familiar with the species might want to believe.

Again, this isn't a wallow we are looking at, its just a temporary mud hole that you find on the sides of logging roads all over the PNW, and oftentimes are made muddy by vehicles. Originally this was either a landing for logging equipment or a passing lane/turnaround. There is bound to be mud there, but that does not make it a wallow as some have shown pictures of. Again, if it were a wallow, you would see evidence of a well worn hole and thrashing sign.

Hope this helps.

Of course PT, i understand that but i was referring to it more to mean as it is a Truck Turnaround & Gravel i would assume ( ? ), would that NOT make a decent wallow as it wouldn't necessari;y be wallowing in lost of mud, like i've read they do, but in a Puddle of water & Gravel ??

Bt after reading your last Paragraph, my above question is answered, thank you.

[Guest parnassus]

I hunted elk for many years and they cross roads and even walk along roads at times, esp at nite. My second archery elk kill was at the side of a road. I nearly roadkilled one near Telluride at 1 am.

Elk love mud and little pools and puddles. Ive never seen one swim but they love liitle puddles. Like dogs that way.

[Guest]

It is so clearly a elk impression. I am embarrassed that investigators try to pass it off as Bigfoot. They needed "something big" for the TV crew.

[Guest]

It is so clearly a elk impression. I am embarrassed that investigators try to pass it off as Bigfoot. They needed "something big" for the TV crew.

I've hunted elk my whole life in the Gifford Pinchot NF, have seen a ton of elk wallows, and I agree! I think it's a little presumptuous to attribute everything in the woods to BF. They don't even know what an achilles tendon from a BF would look like, so to speculate that that is definitively what it is seems pretty irresponsible to me. Most BF 'researchers' are nothing more than weekend warriors. Sorry...Sad, but true! Every single hunter that investigates BF bestows the moniker 'wildlife tracker' on themselves to obtain a certain credibility, but essentially it means nothing. I'm not saying that it wasn't a BF, but unless there is more evidence than speculation, you have to leave it at that....Speculation! Witnesses, hair samples, tracks, anything? Nope! I personally like what the BFRO does, as far as information sharing goes on their website, but other than that, there is not a whole lot of science involved. They are a for-profit organization, and have to be taken with a grain of salt! The hype machine is a powerful tool, and they are well versed in it. Matt Moneymaker is the Rex Ryan of Bigfoot research!

[Guest Blackdog]

The BFRO doesn't have anything to do with the cast anymore.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Blackdog

[gigantor]

Here are some screen caps from the Animal X episode that featured the Skookum cast. I chose some that show most of the area where the cast was made.

Doesn't look like an elk wallow to me.

Where is the water? if an elk was wallowing just 5 hours before, there should be some water.

It does look like the investigators are trampling all over the evidence though...

Edited January 27, 2011 by gigantor

[Guest]

It is so clearly a elk impression. I am embarrassed that investigators try to pass it off as Bigfoot. They needed "something big" for the TV crew.

That swings dangerously close to calling a number of credentialed scientists a word that we are not allowed to use here...so I will simply say that their professional opinion does not match yours.

[Guest]

but essentially it means nothing. I'm not saying that it wasn't a BF, but unless there is more evidence than speculation, you have to leave it at that....Speculation! Witnesses, hair samples, tracks, anything? Nope!

Not true, hair samples were recovered and detailed anatomical impressions in the cast were left that were observable to trained professionals in the relevent fields.

[Guest fenris]

The BFRO doesn't have anything to do with the cast anymore.

still an elk lay though

[Guest Blackdog]

yep

[Guest]

I don't understand how a creature(sasquatch) that weighs several hundred pounds can(even belly crawling on hands and knees, or scooting)fail to leave hand or footprints in mud/loose dirt when approaching an area. There were elk prints present, and the form *resembles* the print an elk might leave after laying down. My call, as an uncredentialed lay person not present at or involved in the finding, and whom has only read second hand accounts and descriptions: elk.

I just really find it hard to swallow that there were no Sas prints approaching or leaving, regardless of the "it lay down in a primate-esque way to grab the apple" explanation. But I am not a scientist studying elk or primates, though. Just noodling this one through logistically. As much as one might reasonably do when discussing Sasquatch.

**Edited to change my original word "animal" to "creature"....

Edited January 27, 2011 by notgiganto