Separating Fact From Fiction With Bigfoot

[Guest Lesmore]

The ones living around here ought to be doing dandy with the variety of flora and fauna we have, even in suburbia. I just don't think that bigfoot is in any danger based on how well other things are doing. Although you hear about species dying off at a phenomenal rate, other than the bees not being numerous, I see more critters now than I ever did when I was growing up. However, I did notice several three legged grasshoppers that hung around my deck last summer. I don't know what that was about.

The three legged Grasshoppers thing is interesting. I wonder if they had more difficulty moving, or moving quickly, compared to their more normal brethern ? If the additional leg encumbered them, I would also be surprised that they survived the summer...ie: easy pickings for predators.

The state next to my province is Minnesota and when I was a kid I spent about 2 years of summers ('50's, 60's) in that fine state.

Being a young boy, I spent a lot of time in the countryside, fishing, collecting small animals like snakes, frogs, etc. I never, ever saw a deformed animal during that time.

Now, decades later, although I don't get down to Minnesota as much as I would like, but I do read that in some areas of Minnesota, three legged Frogs are occasionally found.

I don't know what that is about either, but I also understand that some species...amphibians, fish, insects often are the first animal life (due to fast life cycles) to show changes , related to environmental issues.

Or maybe deformity in these small animals, insects could be the result of something else. I don't know, interesting to speculate though.

[southernyahoo]

These reasons for any trouble that bf may have might not be caused by us. I only use the above examples because we have been known to unknowingly throw quite a few species for a loop. We can only guess until we know. We won't even guess until we know. We probably won't know if that information is being purposely withheld.

It's kind of ironic that science has been waiting on evidence to prove BF's existence, and that evidence requires a degree of science to validate. We are also known to dismiss the very evidence we need, so as not to be guessing. So it is debatable whether information has been withheld or simply ignored by science.

[bipedalist]

Why would information be withheld by science on such an earth-shaking topic unless science was held hostage by government edict or simply colluded to keep scientific publications about the matter from being released though? Even in such a scenario (being ignored), it would be simple enough to start the Online Journal of Rejected Sasquatch Research for example. Shouldn't be difficult. Even WikiLeaks can do it. Just getting anybody to accept the findings might be the issue.

[Guest]

The three legged Grasshoppers thing is interesting. I wonder if they had more difficulty moving, or moving quickly, compared to their more normal brethern ? If the additional leg encumbered them, I would also be surprised that they survived the summer...ie: easy pickings for predators.

They did not jump straight, but enough of them hatched that I noticed them. If it had only been one, I would have shrugged it off but it was a bunch and it was always the right leg. Everything else looked normal. They spary for bugs around here inside and out on a regular basis but no tremendous amounts of fertilizer. I can only guess at the cause. These things do happen spontaneously all the time. Some of these mutations stick but the vast majority don't if it doesn't enhance survival. Whether they survived longer than regular grasshoppers or not, I have no idea.

[Guest tracker]

It's kind of ironic that science has been waiting on evidence to prove BF's existence, and that evidence requires a degree of science to validate. We are also known to dismiss the very evidence we need, so as not to be guessing. So it is debatable whether information has been withheld or simply ignored by science.

Not withheld or ignored maybe more like avoided by science. It would take a team of scientist from different fields to have the Sasquatch recognized as a new species. And only with a body or part of a body to back their claim. If it's just one or two scientist with an old bone of unknown origin, it won't be enough. JMO

[Guest]

If a digit that comes from an unknown hominid becomes available, as was the case with the Peter Byrne situation from the monastary, what will be the results? Did that bad boy ever get to a location where dna could be utilized? I do not remember the scenario.

[Huntster]

If a digit that comes from an unknown hominid becomes available, as was the case with the Peter Byrne situation from the monastary, what will be the results?

I would speculate that those who find the need to oppose sasquatchery would simply claim that the "digit" is actually from a human. If a chimp's dna is so close to a human's, it's not unreasonable to assume that the dna from a bipedal ape is even closer to human dna.

Indeed, we can even expect some measure of this even if a complete carcass is provided. A pure denialist would simply claim the beast to be a malformed human.

Indeed, I can virtually guarantee that. The extent of denial literally has no bounds.

[Guest ChrisBFRPKY]

If a digit that comes from an unknown hominid becomes available, as was the case with the Peter Byrne situation from the monastary, what will be the results? Did that bad boy ever get to a location where dna could be utilized? I do not remember the scenario.

That whole deal is a mess. According to what I remember about the finger bone is it is mostly a collection of great stories: Tom Slick had went there and had permission to work with the hand to fix it up I guess, it was wired together by Slick evidently. Then comes the stories. One says Tom Slick stole a bone and substituted some human hand bones. Later, Byrne "obtained" a bone that was determined to be human. Another version tells that one of the bones was obtained by getting the resident monk drunk....One of the bones was smuggled into the Country by actor James Stewart and his wife. (supposedly in her undergarment bag) They're all great stories. The question I would like to see answered is where are the bone(s) now? Has DNA been tested by anyone? Chris B.

[Guest vilnoori]

There needs to be more testing than whether it is human. What type of human? Humans have existed for 2 million years in many varieties, and perhaps remains of all of those would test out as human depending on the type of test done. Especially if it was some years back. Nowadays the DNA testing can be much more precise and give a picture of just where along the development path that "human" might fit.

[Guest]

There needs to be more testing than whether it is human. What type of human? Humans have existed for 2 million years in many varieties, and perhaps remains of all of those would test out as human depending on the type of test done. Especially if it was some years back. Nowadays the DNA testing can be much more precise and give a picture of just where along the development path that "human" might fit.

That is what I have thought Vil, especially with the detail information in the recent series with the finger tip.

As more people offer evidence, in the form of possible dna, I would hope that the refinements detail differences for us rather than such a broad category.. so far the dna information received that I am familiar with seems to make no sense

The only one I have heard about that I thought was the real deal (that was not characterized as contaminated) was from Dr. Curt Nelson via the Cabin incident with Dr. Meldrum. As I recall, the public perception was that it was contaminated by the screws in the bear deterrent board...

[Guest Blackdog]

Last I heard Curt Nelson was not a doctor.

[Guest ajciani]

Nelson is a Sr. scientist in the Department of Entomology at the University of Minnesota. He is their senior (perhaps only) geneticist.

The zinc contamination in the sample was bad news for the PCR. For those who don't know, PCR (polymerase chain reaction) is the technique used to copy DNA. It turns a small sample of DNA into a large sample, so that other tests can be done. Zinc cleaves DNA, and can interfere with the polymerase enzymes. So Nelson was doing the amplification (PCR) and getting nothing.

It was mentioned in the MonsterQuest episode, but Nelson managed to filter the zinc out of the sample, and then did the PCR successfully and obtained DNA. It was sequenced and showed some polymorphisms indicating that the sample may have been more primitive than modern humans. I think in the episode, Nelson concluded that there was a 95% chance the sample was not human, and stated that sequencing of more genes might show more throwbacks, and increase the certainty that it was not human.

Hominid DNA was the only DNA recovered.

[Guest]

Last I heard Curt Nelson was not a doctor.

That would be my mistake Blackdog, pardon. I wrote that because I thought I heard him referred to as such.

[southernyahoo]

There needs to be more testing than whether it is human. What type of human? Humans have existed for 2 million years in many varieties, and perhaps remains of all of those would test out as human depending on the type of test done. Especially if it was some years back. Nowadays the DNA testing can be much more precise and give a picture of just where along the development path that "human" might fit.

Vilnoori, I think you will eventually see this. Even if BF is technically human, whatever genetics that causes their great size, hairiness and other physical attributes will set itself apart within the sequencing data. There should be something there that is not present in known human populations.

[Guest vilnoori]

Actually, both great hairiness and great tallness are within the genetic possibilities of current humans, and in fact so is the wide range of cranial capacity and shape. There are special markers that would have to be looked for in both mitochondrial and nuclear DNA for a distinction to be made between "them" and "us." You can have a look at some pictures online by googling "images, gigantism" or giants, and hypertrichosis. Or you can look at my gallery on "human oddities." There you will also see humans today not only with giantism and hypertrichosis but also with horns, tails, blue skin, sloping neanderthal-like skulls, and abnormally ape-like feet (though not all together). All variations within the current human genome. And I am sure there are many more besides which I haven't got pictures of, yet.