Albert Ostman

[BobbyO]

BFS, just looking at some stuff i done before ( below ) and i'm thinking it coincides with your pin on that map ?

Could you check to see if that's the case please ?

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The more i look at it the more i'm sure he would have been taken to an area close & in the proximity of Sims Creek, Ashlu River & the Upper Squamish River, much of which is not accessible by Car..

He did say he wanted to head West over 2 Ridges ( one of which would be in the vicinity of Tzoonie Mountain & Mount Jimmy Jimmy ) to get to Salt Water & juts beyond Mount Churchill is Jervis Inlet.

But getting accross 2 Ridges to the South ( like he mentioned doing & where Baker would be positioned ) would lead him to coming out at the Salmon Arm of the Sechelt Inlet.

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In fact, if it isn't my imagination, that would be exactly the right position ( i think ) that you pinned judging by his " want to head over two ridges " comment wouldn't it ?

Only problem with it would be why he didn't head for Narrows Inlet, which he surely would have seen and would have been much quicker and easier to get to than crossing two ridges.

That then makes me think again that he was maybe more further east of the pinpoint that BFS made, somewhere close to Sims Creek, Ashlu River & the Upper Squamish River area.

[Guest vilnoori]

The distances are staggering. You have to remember we are talking about mountain terrain here, not just as the crow flies. It makes me wonder if he made a mistake and meant to say Jervis Inlet instead of Salmon. Jervis would be much more doable, but still incredibly far for one person to walk or even run. Even a bigfoot.

[Terry]

That's some serious mileage though BFS, something that i can't personally see to be possible.

I'm still happy with my previous conclusions and that was i think he got his locations mixed up, big time.

Usually prospectors have a pretty good grasp on distance and location.

Another research tool may be old aerial photography. Try and get the oldest photos available of the area. Even if it turns out to be several years after the event the roads, etc. may still show up. I've used photos from the 40's in my forestry career here in Ontario and you'd be surprised how some things don't change. On the other hand, they can change alot.

This would make a great documentary (sp?)...trying to prove or disprove the event. Millionaires and the like sure miss out on great ways to spend their money! lol

t.

[Cotter]

I hope this is OK.

Here's a start for 1920's aerial photography of canada.

http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/earth-sciences/products-services/satellite-photography-imagery/aerial-photos/photo-collection/857

[Guest BFSleuth]

From my read of his escape:

1. The opening of the hanging valley where he was held captive opened to the Southwest.

2. During his initial escape, running downhill, he must have entered a valley going downstream to the South. The valley (and stream) then turned West.

3. His idea was that no matter what he wanted to head South toward civilization, so he decided to climb the ridge facing him directly to the South (the ridge would have been running east and west). The stream must have been flowing to the west.

4. Due to heavy forest at the time he may not have seen Narrows Inlet. Even if he did see it when climbing the ridge he may have been reluctant to head that direction because there would be a small chance of being found and that would put him back in proximity to the BF. He wanted high ground.

The problem in going much farther east as the starting point of his escape is that the major rivers run south, there would likely have been roads farther east, and I'm having trouble trying to match anything to his statements of the lay of the land.

[Guest]

Pondering...

Ostman's story did not arise in a vacuum. He revealed his adventure decades after it occurred; he apparently told no one about the adventure until he read Roe's story in 1956 or 57. Two options: he was so excited to find that someone else had seen a similar creature that he released his pent up account; or, he latched on to Roe's story and spun a tall tale off of it.

Ostman's story is richly detailed. Two options: the events were so compelling they were burned into his memory, even minor details like feeling the canned food bouncing against his body as the Old Man carried him in his sleeping bag; or such detail is the sign of a well thought out vivid tall tale.

The affidavit. Two options: he wanted to be believed; or he wanted to be believed and knew his story could not be significantly contradicted (and, therefore, no fear of penalty).

According to a Michael Dennett article, Dahinden tried to reconstruct the distances and times provided by Ostman and concluded the story was "totally impossible".

Supposedly, Barbara Wasson, a Bigfoot enthusiast and trained psychologist, in her book Sasquatch Apparitions, thought Ostman's story was a projection of his imagination rather than a recounting of real events.

(I've been unable to find Dennett's original article or Wasson's book. Both are footnoted in Daegling's Bigfoot Exposed.)

[BobbyO]

Usually prospectors have a pretty good grasp on distance and location.

He was a construction worker and logger though T, that just went prospecting for a vacation.

The distances are staggering. You have to remember we are talking about mountain terrain here, not just as the crow flies. It makes me wonder if he made a mistake and meant to say Jervis Inlet instead of Salmon. Jervis would be much more doable, but still incredibly far for one person to walk or even run. Even a bigfoot.

I agree with all that Vil.

& this is of course assuming that he did actually start from the Toba, which even geographically aside from him saying that because he started out from Lund, would seem to be correct.

[Guest Transformer]

From my read of his escape:

1. The opening of the hanging valley where he was held captive opened to the Southwest.

2. During his initial escape, running downhill, he must have entered a valley going downstream to the South. The valley (and stream) then turned West.

3. His idea was that no matter what he wanted to head South toward civilization, so he decided to climb the ridge facing him directly to the South (the ridge would have been running east and west). The stream must have been flowing to the west.

4. Due to heavy forest at the time he may not have seen Narrows Inlet. Even if he did see it when climbing the ridge he may have been reluctant to head that direction because there would be a small chance of being found and that would put him back in proximity to the BF. He wanted high ground.

The problem in going much farther east as the starting point of his escape is that the major rivers run south, there would likely have been roads farther east, and I'm having trouble trying to match anything to his statements of the lay of the land.

No road for over a hundred miles east at least in 1924.

[Guest BFSleuth]

I'll have to research more, but if you get too far East from where I've pegged a possible location for his valley of captivity, then you get toward Highway 99 and the river that flows straight south to Squamish. If his intent was to go South no matter what, then there is a natural valley running directly south to Squamish. From his description he had to be on the west side of the crest of mountains just to the west of Squamish in order to come out at or near Salmon Inlet.

If, as someone suggested, he was mistaken about coming out at Salmon Inlet then it might open up other territory he could have been, but I have to believe that if there is any shred of truth to the story then he had to have the Salmon Inlet correct as he would have been informed by the logging operation where he was.

Still looking, but there doesn't seem to be any hanging valley fitting his description with a SE opening an 6-8 acres of area surrounded by cliffs.

Another thing that folks needs to know, when you look at Google Earth images of the area under question please realize you are looking at mid summer images. The snow that you see is permanent snowfields. Therefore we can rule out any valleys at the highest elevation as they wouldn't support trees or grass fields as he described.

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

If Albert wasn't able to return, I think he could have been material for David Paulides's book Missing 411. For me his story adds more weight to the possibility that people get kidnapped often by Sasquatch and don't live to tell about it. Sad, but unfortunately it's likely true if we really have large, intelligent primates all over the continent.

[AaronD]

Or they might just be large hairy people, as Albert described...I believe.

[Doc Holliday]

or the whole story could be BS...not saying it is, or isnt. i simply dont know,although it is one of my favorite stories.

this was said to happen before my time,so i cant say 'cause I wasn't there.....but im not completely convinced ostman was either.

[Guest Transformer]

I'll have to research more, but if you get too far East from where I've pegged a possible location for his valley of captivity, then you get toward Highway 99 and the river that flows straight south to Squamish. If his intent was to go South no matter what, then there is a natural valley running directly south to Squamish. From his description he had to be on the west side of the crest of mountains just to the west of Squamish in order to come out at or near Salmon Inlet.

If, as someone suggested, he was mistaken about coming out at Salmon Inlet then it might open up other territory he could have been, but I have to believe that if there is any shred of truth to the story then he had to have the Salmon Inlet correct as he would have been informed by the logging operation where he was.

Still looking, but there doesn't seem to be any hanging valley fitting his description with a SE opening an 6-8 acres of area surrounded by cliffs.

Another thing that folks needs to know, when you look at Google Earth images of the area under question please realize you are looking at mid summer images. The snow that you see is permanent snowfields. Therefore we can rule out any valleys at the highest elevation as they wouldn't support trees or grass fields as he described.

The PGE was in that valley from 1912 from Squamish to the interior of BC and is still running as part of the CNR. Steam engines make a lot of smoke and noise so it is highly doubtful that he would have been in that valley and not been able to find the railroad and hop the train. We can speculate and make all manner of excuses for Ostman's complete lack of any knowlege of the area or terrain or distances or complete lack of any reasonable estimations of daily travel we want but the easiest and most logical explantion is that it is a made up story by someone who never was in the area. That is my opinion.

[Guest Kerchak]

^

Or it 'could' have happened but 30 odd years later he got a lot of the details confused so kind of re-imagined them in order to try and give clarity to his story. He may even have 'thought' what he was recollecting was correct.

[AaronD]

Very true, I'm just wondering if they weren't just a group of burly people who happen to live in the woods who took him--again, as pointed out--if it really happened. Animals typically don't kidnap people save for a rogue bear or something like that and then it would be for food.