Questions For The Knowers

[Guest]

Ah. The first thread I've started on this forum.

For the record and so we're on the same page, I take "knowers" to be people who haven't just had an at- night, questionable sighting or a fleeting glimpse, or even, a decent sighting. I take 'knowers' to mean people who have had excellent, extended sightings where they are 100% in their mind that they were not hoaxed etc...Read I believe JDL's account. Now he's a knower!

So, as has been asked several times in threads to skeptics...why do you come here? No doubt the 'knowers' are smaller in number than simply the believers. I suspect strongly that you've even formed your own clique and probably correspond offline too. You have something very special in common. For you people there is no debate. What is your intent? Is it to, having become a believer from a good sighting you know they exist, convince others too? If so, why? Many of you didn't believe until you had your encounter. So why would you ask others to do so?

Some of you are very angry at times too. Why? You have a leg up on the skeptics and know not only something they don't know, but something the world doesn't know. Why wouldn't you sit back and laugh? Or even, why wouldn't you agree with the skeptics? Yes, agree. Tell them/us, "Yes, all of your points are well taken. I never would have believed it if I hadn't had my sighting either."

[Guest COGrizzly]

I've said this before on here - I am a "knower" of UFO's (mind you, I did not see an alien, but a UFO) and I do not even go to any "UFO" forums. I have also said that being a "knower" of UFO's, it keeps me interested in Sasquatch. I know what I saw and am not mistaken.

[Guest]

I think most believers have convinced themselves they are knowers and any opinion saying otherwise is met with hostility. How do you tell a knower and a believer apart?

You cant really, I mean how many people do you hear about online or where ever who know they were Cleopatra in a past life? How many people know that aliens come to earth to talk to just them, the list really could go on and on.

I know what my brothers and I saw but really, I cant say for sure that it was a hairy man that lives in the forest simply because we dont know that. People love to claim this and that but really there is not actual solid proof.

[Guest BFSleuth]

I categorize "knowers" as those that have had an unequivocal sighting or sightings. There is no mistaking what they saw.

I categorize "believers" as those that have not had a sighting, or had experience with wood knocks, etc. that may leave room for doubt, or simply folks like me that don't have that direct sightings but give some level of weight to the volume of sighting reports, footprint casts, video, etc. that would leave me with the conclusion that the probability that BF exists is very high if not certain.

I can't speak for the knowers, but if I were in their shoes I would think that coming to a forum like this would be motivated by a need to connect with other knowers to gain knowledge about my experience and find out more about BF. Many knowers express a desire to have a repeat of the experience, and what better place to find out how it might be possible than to discuss it with like minded people.

Given the nature of this forum, allowing all points of view to be discussed openly, it is likely disappointing to be met by so many skeptics that question their experience. I could certainly commiserate with their frustration and don't fault them at all for their attempts to convince the world that what they saw was indeed very real.

[Guest Jodie]

Knower's do not need to prove anything and the vast majority of them do not participate on these forums. If they come here, they come with the thought of sharing in most cases, however, that usually isn't well received even by people who believe in bigfoot for numerous reasons that have been previously explored in other threads.

No one asks to be believed, I have never seen one witness ever request it, they just want to tell what they experienced. it is the automatic disregard that the person is mistaken, that there is no proof so how could you "know" something like this exists.

That is the difference, dismissal because one has made up their mind that the creature hasn't, couldn't , therefore presently doesn't exist versus being open minded enough to explore what the person might have experienced without letting your gray matter spill out in the process.

[Guest minnie-ear]

That’s a good question.

It’s frustrating to know something to be true and realize that no matter how credible you are in every other aspect in your life, no matter how respected you are at work, loved and trusted by family and friends; you still get that look. The look that says, ‘suuurrre you did’. People are usually kind enough to not come out and call you an out and out liar, but nearly everyone comes close to it, or worse, you are a gullible fool. My favorite people are ones who think they are being helpful by suggesting that maybe you saw a bear or heard and owl or the ‘those kids out there in the woods playing tricks on peopleâ€.

So, people witness these things and they come to a forum like this thinking maybe they can just get a grip on what they have seen, feel like they have kinship, etc. and what happens? Well even here, at a bigfoot forum they again have their integrity called into question. So they become agitated. There is no safe place to discuss what they have experienced.

If you are a long term witness or self proclaimed bigfooter, investigator, field researcher who has had more than one encounter you find you have even fewer people who will cut you slack. I have very few people who I am completely open with and willing to discuss in detail all of my personal experiences. Usually this is other field researchers and witnesses who I’ve gotten to know while out in the sticks.

So yes, there is anger and frustration. Surely it is understandable that a knower is unwilling to stand up to the ridicule of the so called (usually self proclaimed) skeptics. Usually these self proclaimed skeptics have 0 real world experience with the subject and for some reason feel everyone needs to lay their proof at their feet for the skeptic’s inspection and evaluation. Now I’m not going to say that is everyone’s take but I’ve talked with many witnesses and researchers, and that is the feeling I get. We frequently hear the call on these forums, “show me the evidence, tell us your storyâ€, and when you do you get, “well maybe it was a bear, you heard and owl and must have been those kids……â€.

So news for the hard core skeptics and scoftics; I do laugh. You don’t realize how uniformed you actually are. You are so far away from the truth of this that I do find you amusing and I find it sad that you live in such a drab no nonsense world where you can’t take a leap of faith when faced with an avalanche of evidence. Where there is smoke, there is fire. You can’t have thousands of documented eyewitness reports, police reports, news paper stories, native lore, folk lore and it all be a hoax, wishful thinking or misinterpretations. There are several hundred foot casts, , hand casts, photos both blurry and clear, film footage (PG shows a live animal not a suit), audio recordings. The explanations contrary to this evidence are usually far more incredible and improbable than the truth.

So it comes down to the basic truth for us knowers. They exist. No matter how much you don’t want them to, no matter how improbable that is to you, it is the truth. No argument you can make can change the truth. So go ahead and call me a liar, or soft in the head. I and the tens of thousands of other witnesses know better.

I’ll be laughing for those who can’t.

[Guest BFSleuth]

Consider this a comment from the moderator team regarding the nature of this thread. We consider that the OP is in the spirit of having skeptics, knowers, and believers come to an understanding of one another. We will be monitoring this thread closely to make sure that all posts are mindful of forum rules. While we may disagree with one another we should always respect one another.

If anyone needs to review forum rules they are here:

That being said, let the healthy discussion continue....

[Guest LJSLaw]

I believe that, via the Ketchum Paper or the Erickson Project or some other type "incontrovertible proof", in whatever form, the amount of people claiming Bigfoot encounters will skyrocket.

Once it is no longer "woo", and is considered a living, extant being, there will no longer be a stigma attached. Now instead of "special" (as in, possibly deranged), folks that claim an encounter will be special, as in, "You saw a Sasquatch! Awesome!", akin to having beers with Tom Cruise or Madonna.

In my local area, there are very few bears. Few, but far in between. I don't remember the specifics but a couple of years ago, the local paper ran a story about a giant bear found dead on the side of the road, hit by a commercial truck. It was massive. I don't remember the size but it was a black bear typical of the western states, not the Deep South. Again, my sizes are probably off but i believe most bears in these parts are lucky to be in the 225 pound range, if that. Well, this bear was something like well over 400 pounds. Maybe close to 500. It was huge. It was unbelievable, even to the local game and fish experts, a bear that large could exist here.

Well, the article in the paper quote a very, very well known attorney. He told a story of seeing that very bear (there can't be more than one, one would think) at his hunting camp, just about ten miles from the site of the accident. He said he had seen the bear twice but HE DIDN"T EVEN TELL HIS WIFE OR HIS SON about it. Why? Because, and I am paraphrasing, "I didn't want people to think I was crazy. If I said there was a 400 pound bear out there, someone might want to lock me up."

He had a lot of credibility to lose. So, even though he knows what he saw, he kept his mouth shut, even to his family.

Then, I think of Sasquatch. If credible people feel that way simply about a LARGE BEAR, an animal not only known to exist but also to exist in that general area, what would said credible people think about reporting they saw a sasquatch?

I commend those that come forward with a sighting. I think it takes some guts.

And I am not taking the position these creatures are real or mythical, it's interesting either way.

Yes, the "knowers" will be plentiful if Ketchum isn't pulling legs.

BTW, I think she deserves benefit of all doubt. She takes many shots. She has promised nothing she hasn't delivered.

She has never promised a time or publication date. Nor has she promised precisely what's in her paper. She has said, unequivocally, her scientific research has led her to the conclusion this creature exists, then she claims to have seen them with her own eyes.

Until she loses credibility, if ever, I am giving her the benefit of the doubt.

If she delivers, the "knowers" will be plentiful. The "I saw one, too!" crowd will be plentiful.

[ShadowBorn]

can't speak for the knowers, but if I were in their shoes I would think that coming to a forum like this would be motivated by a need to connect with other knowers to gain knowledge about my experience and find out more about BF. Many knowers express a desire to have a repeat of the experience, and what better place to find out how it might be possible than to discuss it with like minded people.

This to me sounds about right since i am not into it for fame or anything else.If i was in it for fame i would have been on the news or in the papers in my area but i am not.The most simple way to know what i am dealing with is to communicate with others who are expierancing what i have expierance.

Just knowing that you are not alone is a great feeling inside.Being able to share what i have expierance is what it takes to understand these creatures.People can be the judge of who has had the greatest encounter but it does not matter to me.Knowing that you are not alone is what helps me understand.To me that is what keeps bringing me back.

Edited April 25, 2012 by julio126

[Guest]

Seriously WTB1, you would ask knowers "why do you come here?". Dude, what better place to go than here? It is afterall called The Bigfoot Forums. As BFSleuth said we will be closely monitering this thread. If I get the feeling that you have started this thread for the purpose of stirring the pot/trolling, It will be shut down in a flash. The whole thing in your opening post about "forming your own clique and probably correspond offline too" reeks of baiting to me. And for the record Knowers have not been exposed, those who are less than truthful have.

This thread is on a slippery slope, be careful not to ride it off said slope.

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

you would ask knowers "why do you come here?". Dude, what better place to go than here? It is afterall called The Bigfoot Forums.

^That

[Guest BFSleuth]

This thread is hereby closed until the moderators can deal with a number of posts. It shall be reopened when these have been dealt with.

[Guest]

Well, I had intended to, however with the post above mine you had already started down said slope. Have you not noticed how the "why do skeptics come here" threads don't last long. It's because we at the BFF feel that everyone has the right to come here and post without being baited or made to feel uncomfortable in any way. Also for the record, the action taken was not by me. I had intended to close this thread to start with when I found it had been reported, however it already had several posts and I decided to let it ride for a while. Other Members of Staff have acted on this thread and rightly so.

[Guest BFSleuth]

This thread has now officially opened again.

Please note this thread will be closely monitored by moderators. NO DISRESPECTFUL LANGUAGE WILL BE TOLERATED by ANY side of the debate or discussion. Moderators WILL take action.

The issue being discussed in this thread is "why do believers/knowers come to participate in the BFF in light of the fact that this forum welcomes all points of view, including skeptics, and encourages healthy debate?"

[bipedalist]

This is why it's good to be a witness and thus a "knower" so you can kick back and watch the hysterics.....

this one obviously "over the top" but entertaining (mods feel free to move it wherever it best represents the epic nature of finding the ghost of Sasquatch past, hahaha)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cv1a6UCdg0&feature=player_embedded

Edited April 26, 2012 by bipedalist