Questions For The Knowers

[Guest Jodie]

LOLOL...where do you find this stuff?

[bipedalist]

That one came from a link on bigfoot-evidence blogspot.com, easy to miss stuff over there..... glad I caught up with it though... I laughed so hard my mouse was giggling the screen making for worse stick blurs during this video.....

Edited April 26, 2012 by bipedalist

[Guest]

Based on your guidelines, yes I am a knower. And the reason I've basically devoted a lot of my time to this forum is too see how both skeptics and believers react to everything on here. I also come here to compare experiences with many other people to see what their descriptions are like when compared to mine. Also, to prove that it exists to my colleagues and learn more about this creature.

One more thing I forgot to add. Seeing as I've kept my incident hidden for under a year, I've been subject to great ridicule, and only keep my experience strictly to my friends. Everybody else thinks "I am waisting my time" at age 16.

Edited April 26, 2012 by Austin M.

[Guest]

I believe that, via the Ketchum Paper or the Erickson Project or some other type "incontrovertible proof", in whatever form, the amount of people claiming Bigfoot encounters will skyrocket.

Once it is no longer "woo"

I really hate that term. It's by design and intent demeaning, dismissive, and says more about the mindset of the person using it than it does about the validity of whatever topic is to hand.

Mind you, I'm not saying you yourself mean anything by it, given your use of quote marks.

"Believers" also has that dismissive, demeaning context to it. "Belief" implies acceptance or advocacy without or despite evidence (and has religious overtones). I use the term "proponents", which is factually descriptive w/o the demeaning implications.

[Guest BFSleuth]

I think your term "proponent" is a much better choice than "believer". More neutral in emotional meaning, and more accurately describing my own point of view. Thank you, Mulder.

[salubrious]

The reason I am here is because after my encounter I want to know more. And I've learned a lot in the short time I've been here.

I don't worry about the skeptics. I know what I saw and that's enough- there's not much point in trying to convince others. But I have a lot of curiosity about the subject, and I have to admit its nice to share info with others that have had similar experiences.

[Guest]

You know what's funny is that when you witness something out of the norm, even something relatively small, it gets frustrating pretty quick when people don't believe you. I will share an experience that really shaped my decision not to share my sighting with the people around me. I would say about maybe 8 years before my sighting, I was deer hunting with my brother in some pretty classic chapparal habitat here in Arizona. Basically desert about an hour north of Phoenix. So we are sitting on a ridge, glassing a canyon, and my brother just casually says, "I think that turkey is lost". I look behind us and a wild hen is just casually walking not 5 yards behind me. All I could say was, "well at least she's heading north". So we get back to camp, which is comprised of family and friends, all of them hardcore lifetime hunters and we tell them what we saw. And whaddaya know, they immediately call BS. "No way a turkey would be here, ever!!". "It's too **** hot for a turkey to be around here". "Someone must have captured one and it escaped". "You probably saw a wounded vulture". These are all things we heard with a ridiculing type of feel to it. Of course later I checked it out, and it's possible that their range could extend to where I was, but since not one of these generations of hunters had ever seen one there, no way could I have. The one thing that was cool was that my brother was with me so we knew we weren't crazy. So obviously when I had something a billion times more fantastic to report, with no backup witnesses, it's a little more difficult to share. So I guess I just come here to chat with people in the same boat.

[Guest]

One more thing I forgot to add. Seeing as I've kept my incident hidden for under a year, I've been subject to great ridicule, and only keep my experience strictly to my friends. Everybody else thinks "I am waisting my time" at age 16.

Welcome friend. I gave your post a +1.

First off I really welcome someone at 16 years of age coming here, (it can be an intimidating place), and posting as you have from such an young age deserves recognition IMHO.

I'd hope others would recognize and reward that as well.

If you need to talk about your sighting and want to do so in private, and in an confidential manner, please PM either bipedalist or myself.

Either bipedalist or myself would be happy, I'm sure, to take you under our wing and serve as *mentors* of sort.

Hope you don't mind me volunteering you bp, but how cool is it for a couple of *geezers* like you and I to see an 16 year old exhibit the courage young Austin M. has?

Count me with Brother Mulder regarding the word/term *proponents* being the most accurate and less demeaning term for those of us who believe in the viability of BF.

A lot went on with this thread with it being closed and re-opened.

Dunno...the VERY OP of the thread seems to be a tad off kilter IMHO.

This is The Bigfoot Forums, an forum dedicated to the discussion of BF. Where in the world else, would those that feel as if they *know* go?

I can't say that I really welcome all of the threads asking why *skeptics* are here on the forum as we welcome all sides/opinions regarding the BF mystery.

Skeptics, interested in the subject and whether they will admit it or not are Bigfooter's too IMO.

It would get really boring here fairly quickly if we all agreed and tried to limit varying opinions. The key is that the varying opinions be presented respectfully and in accord with the forums rules.

But, if I'm 100% honest, it makes more sense for the *knowers* to post here than it does the cynical.

Some skeptics are cynical, and please note I used that term instead of skeptic.

I guess what I am saying is that threads like this do little good whether proponents direct them towards skeptics or skeptics direct them towards proponents.

Inevitably they seem to only serve to further divide us.

But to answer the primary question of...

So, as has been asked several times in threads to skeptics...why do you come here?

I'd hazard a guess that they do so because this is The Bigfoot Forums and they wish to share and interact with others on a forum dedicated to the subject.

[BobbyO]

So, as has been asked several times in threads to skeptics...why do you come here? No doubt the 'knowers' are smaller in number than simply the believers. I suspect strongly that you've even formed your own clique and probably correspond offline too. You have something very special in common. For you people there is no debate. What is your intent? Is it to, having become a believer from a good sighting you know they exist, convince others too? If so, why? Many of you didn't believe until you had your encounter. So why would you ask others to do so?

To learn, or to try and learn about the Species if and where possible.There have been multiple threads down the years that i believe i have learned more about this Animal than i would if i didn't come here so that's good enough to me.

It took me years to even put what i saw and Sasquatch together, because the two just didn't enter my thought process really i don't think until one day when i first started using the www. and for some reason that i can't remember now, i found the BFRO's website or maybe it was the Bigfoot Encounters website, and it clicked.

So since that day i have always wanted to learn more about what i saw.

Some of you are very angry at times too. Why?

I don't appreciate people insinuating i'm a liar, and more so i don't appreciate people insinuating i'm a liar with the sarcasm thrown in which makes me very angry.

There is nothing i can do in reality to prove this Animal's existence, i can't provide proof, not that i have any real inclination to maybe even do so and i didn't choose to see a Sasquatch, i just did.

With that in mind, it drives me insane at time the tone of some of the sceptics posts on here & i don't particularly like it.

I guess frustration plays a part in that.

You have a leg up on the skeptics and know not only something they don't know, but something the world doesn't know. Why wouldn't you sit back and laugh?

Sometimes i do, sometimes i pity certain sceptics that believes they are God's gift to this forum, and i pity the people that worship their every post ( yes they do exist ) but overall, i'd prefer it if the forum didn't get clogged up by people's scepticism about the subject & i feel that way because i personally am past that stage & i just want to learn about these Animals like i say.

But in defence, i have no problem of scepticism as i don't believe a massive portion of what i read about on this subject neither, i just have a problem with people who just continually bash the subject like some do on here seemingly day in and day out.

See my signature for what my belief in that is..

Or even, why wouldn't you agree with the skeptics? Yes, agree. Tell them/us, "Yes, all of your points are well taken. I never would have believed it if I hadn't had my sighting either."

Sometimes i do. But like i said earlier, i see a lot of points being made by certain sceptics on here being made in a very sarcastic way and i don't like that one little bit. I believe that certain sceptics on here no matter what they say publicly, believe that people like me are mad as well as liars and i don't like that neither.

My bold.

Edited April 26, 2012 by BobbyO

[yowiie]

I guess having 4 definate sightings here in Oz gives me the privilege of being called a knower. Being a "knower" has its down side like

ridicule, frustration and a yearning for some facts.

When I joining this forum several years ago I had ambitions of trying to help other people and myself to understand the encounters and visual experiences we witnessed.

The forum title is pretty obvious why researchers and enthusiasts are here, I don't post all that much, but enjoy seeing whats happening in your neck of the woods.

Beig a knower and being told that what you seen wasn't a Yowie/bigfoot starts to get a bit stale.

The truth of the matter is, I'm in a race with you guys to get the best evidence to date(body), so I just poke around on here, through in the odd post, just to see where your at.

Cheers

[JDL]

Ah. The first thread I've started on this forum.

For the record and so we're on the same page, I take "knowers" to be people who haven't just had an at- night, questionable sighting or a fleeting glimpse, or even, a decent sighting. I take 'knowers' to mean people who have had excellent, extended sightings where they are 100% in their mind that they were not hoaxed etc...Read I believe JDL's account. Now he's a knower!

So, as has been asked several times in threads to skeptics...why do you come here? No doubt the 'knowers' are smaller in number than simply the believers. I suspect strongly that you've even formed your own clique and probably correspond offline too. You have something very special in common. For you people there is no debate. What is your intent? Is it to, having become a believer from a good sighting you know they exist, convince others too? If so, why? Many of you didn't believe until you had your encounter. So why would you ask others to do so?

Some of you are very angry at times too. Why? You have a leg up on the skeptics and know not only something they don't know, but something the world doesn't know. Why wouldn't you sit back and laugh? Or even, why wouldn't you agree with the skeptics? Yes, agree. Tell them/us, "Yes, all of your points are well taken. I never would have believed it if I hadn't had my sighting either."

It seems a reasonable question.

I joined because I had something to share, and I believed, perhaps arrogantly, that my experiences were unique. I also wanted to hear from others who had had encounters with bigfoot.

The type of information that I sought wasn't the run of the mill, I saw one cross the road here, or saw one walk away into the woods there report. I wanted to talk to people who had had Encounters, rather than simple sightings. People who had observed behaviors, and had even interacted with them.

I was also interested in discussing the societal implications of their existence, such as why our culture so studiously ignores or discredits evidence of their existence.

I joined and jumped in without really lurking to get a sense of the community first. It was a shock to me that there were so many skeptics on the board and that some of them took a confrontational approach to proponents. Not yet familiar with the debate cycle, I rose to the bait and engaged in some heated discussions. It doesn't bother me when others choose not to accept what I've observed, but it bothered me when others attempted to authoritatively tell me what I had or hadn't seen. It took me a while to recognize that the skeptical authorities are simply believers without supporting evidence themselves. At this stage I have mostly lost interest in the entrenched arguments from either side, but will jump in on occassion to make this point, particularly if a relatively new proponent is getting savaged by some of the more experienced skeptics. I do, however, agree that there's some pretty silly stuff offered up by proponents on a regular basis.

Perception of bigfoot's existence or non-existence is like the Rubik's Cube version of Schrodinger's cat-box. Until your personal version of it opens, it's up to you to choose whether or not bigfoot exists. and it's nearly impossible to open the box on your own. When the thing does pop open, it's a surprise, and if you don't have your eye on it at the time, the answer can dash off into the woods, leaving you with a box containing little more than some sand and suspicious objects.

We know that we exist: "Cogito, ergo sum", or "we think therefore we are"; but when it comes to bigfoot, short of a direct encounter, for now, anyway, the issue is more "Cacare, ergo sum", which can be loosely translated as "I leave evidence behind, therefore I am". Some will examine this evidence, conclude, "Cacare, ergo sum", and be labeled believers. Skeptics, however, require that they must witness the bigfoot depositing the evidence directly in their laps before they will accept it. To each his own.

With regard to a knower's clique, if one exists, I'm not part of it and haven't been invited to join, so I'm skeptical that one exists.

Finally, status on this board isn't, in my view, a matter of knowing, believing, or skepticism. It's a matter of contribution and longevity. In this regard, I'm still a newbie. There are folks on this board with a wealth of knowledge that I'd love to hear about. My hope is that over time, I'll get to know them better and learn some things from them.

[See-Te-Cah NC]

One more thing I forgot to add. Seeing as I've kept my incident hidden for under a year, I've been subject to great ridicule, and only keep my experience strictly to my friends. Everybody else thinks "I am waisting my time" at age 16.

Don't feel bad, Austin... my family and friends think I'm nuts. I'm 46, so age isn't really the issue here.

Keep on keepin' on. You only get one trip on this Globe, so you do what makes you happy as long as it's respectable and responsible.

Why can't you be the one to find/discover an undocumented species? If nothing else, you'll spend a lot of quality time in the woods, which is always a good thing. There's something to be said about spending time in the natural world... there's more to life than doing as others suggest. It's not like you're doing drugs or getting into other trouble. What you're doing is at least wholesome and is healthy exercise.

Don't worry about what others think. I have never been happy trying to live my life to please others. You won't, either.

+1 to you, my young friend.

[Guest]

I would like to thank Brother BobbyO for that excellent testimony!

While I'm here, there is a difference between "being skeptical" and being a Skeptic.

Someone who is skeptical wants to examine evidence, consider it utilizing reason and logic, and make up his/her mind as to a conclusion based on the best answer to the data to hand. They apply that skepticism equally to all arguments w/o prejudice or favoritism.

I believe that there are a number of skeptical individuals on this forum.

Someone who is a Skeptic on the subject of BF wants to find ways to dismiss evidence. They consider cases using a pre-determined (by themselves) set of base assumptions and standards, and have already made up their minds as to the best answer barring overwhelming levels of evidence to the contrary. They apply that skepticism only to proponent arguments under the rationalization that only the initial claimant (the proponent) has any duty to support their claim. Some of them will admit the possibility of BF, however remote, as a public gesture towards objectivity.

Suffice to say that anyone who has ever read my posts can well guess that I believe there are a number of Skeptics on this forum.

I will, in interests of maintaining decorum and the peace of the fora refrain from getting into Debunkers in any detail. Take a Skeptic, take away any nominal gesture towards objectivity, and ramp the derision and condescension up to 11.

There's a certain fora whose name is generally not spoken here where many Debunkers dwell.

And, before anyone asks, yes, I acknowledge the existence of the polar opposite in the ranks of the proponents, those who might rightly be called Believers in some sense of the word. I just don't like the generalized use of the term for all proponents.

[Guest]

I've been on this search for not quite 42 years. In the first years of the old bigfoot forums I posted way more than I do now,but my goal is still the same--to give the best information that I can, based upon my experience to help out those who want to learn something.I haven't tried to post 600 times each day. That's not me. Incidentally, I believe I was the first here to use the term "knower". Not because I know everything but, because I have had multiple sightings of bigfoots. I still enjoy coming here occasionally.I assume that the dismissive attitude by some which has always been here will probably remain. I yearn for the day when we can discuss the bigfoots which the scientists are studying in their labs.

[Guest]

I'm not here because I'm a 'knower' or a 'non-knower'. But I am a psychologist, was a zoologist, and

had a career in mental health. I have always had an abiding interest in how animals and people

behave. My secondary interest is in psychometrics. These forums are a fascinating coming-together

of all these interest for me. I will continue to learn from them and perhaps what skills I have can help

add to the BF knowledge base.