How Fast Can Bigfoot Run?

[Guest Tontar]

In another topic, a slightly off topic discussion started about whether or not it was credible or incredulous that bigfoots could run 40-45 miles per hour. It was said, by a proponent believer, that 40-45 mph was too incredible to believe. I tend to agree. A different proponent of the higher speeds argued that deer can run 40, hippos can run quite fast as well, and so on and so forth. Wild animals can often run quite fast.

The difference is that most wild animals that run fast do so on four legs, not two, and so have the ability to gallop, which is avery efficient, very fast way to get around. Running on two feet is nowhere near as fast or efficient. We gave up maximum speed when we went up on two legs.

It was also argued that the fastest humans can run as fast as 27-28 mph in a sprint, and that in animal terms, humans are relative wimps. And so, that poster claimed, it would not be surprising that bigfoots could run 40 or faster. To me, that stems from a common dismissal of human accomplishment in evolutionary terms. For some reason, there seems to be a common idea that humans are just not all that cool, not all that highly evolved, not all that physically refined. I don't get that, ad I don't agree with it. Humans are the most highly evolved bipedal primate on the planet. We have evolved the bodies, the legs, the feet, to walk upright the most effectively and efficiently. When it comes to upright walking primates, we're hands down the best examples there are. And so, our running speed should naturally be the best for upright primates. That's what we do, so we should do it the best.

Record setting athletes that have been selected for their special running gifts and trained specifically for running on open, smooth, prepared surfaces, can reach perhaps 28 mph peak speeds for a few moments, when all possible conditions are right.

Now consider bigfoots. The live in heavily wooded areas with uneven terrain. Absolutely the worst possible area for a biped to run in. With only two legs, one misstep, one hole, one log, one branch, could spell disaster for a running forest biped. Open meadows are also not as smooth and feature free as they may look when considering the even tops of wild grasses; the underlying soil is most often peppered with sticks, rocks, holes, and other ankle twisting anomalies.

Consider the popular mid-tarsal break foot design. That is absolutely not a good mechanical design for running fast. Our semi-rigid, arched foot design is the best foot design for fast running. If bigfoots have a mid-tarsal break, which will be debated until a specimen is examined, then it would have a serious handicap for running. A rigid, arched foot provides much needed leverage for running, where a hinged, lever-free foot would not. It would be more like a man running with no feet, or club feet, with no foot length to lever off the ground.

Consider that for a 6-8 foot human shaped biped to run 40+ mph, the stride length would be enormous. The only places that a bigfoot would be able to run at those speeds would be in open terrain, and as far as I know all of the tracks in open terrain, along dirt roads, sandbars, beaches, and so on, have been nowhere near as long as would be necessary for running at any kind of high speed. As far as the track record stands, bigfoot seems to walk, not run very much, and certainly not at any ridiculously high speeds.

We have race dogs and they run around 37 mph. They are quadrupeds. They gallop. They are stinking fast, built for speed. There is no way any human can keep up with them, not even in their dreams. Not even the genetically gifted, specially trained Olympic athlete humans.

So when someone supposes that bigfoots can run 40-45 miles per hour, it leaves my mind boggled. Imagination is one thing, but if there is a real creature known as bigfoot, it will have to conform to the real world demands placed on all creatures. It will be adapted to its environment, and it will be hindered by its environment. Running on the plains is one thing, but running in densely forested mountainous terrain is another. Running with a floppy, leverage free foot makes no sense.

In my own personal bigfoot world, which I try to keep confined by examples that occur in nature, I don't believe that bigfoot would have a mid-tarsal breaking foot. I think that it would not have superhuman speed. I think that it would be limited by its size, bulk, and environment, and would not have evolved the speed necessary to run fast. Too much bulk for speed. Too dense an environment to evolve speed.

So is a speed of 40-45 mph "silly" as the original poster suggested? I think absolutely so.

[Guest BFSleuth]

I've had the opportunity to spend a lot of time with populations of people that rarely if ever wear shoes. It is pretty amazing how fast and well they can run over very uneven terrain. I remember very well being invited to join a foot race (me wearing my expensive modern running shoes) over a field that had numerous dips and areas where it threatened to leave me with a twisted ankle. I had to slow way down and let the rest of the racers blow past me in bare feet. I'm not quite sure how they managed it, but they were running at absolute peak effort over that field without looking down and without slowing down. Their toes and feet were well muscled and splayed out wide, with tough callouses on the bottoms of their feet.

Here's a very good article that talks about the absolute predicted speed for humans:

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2010/01/a-5-sec-hundred-meters-human-running-speed-of-3540-mph-may-be-biologically-possible.html

Note that the biological limit for a human is predicted at 35 mph or even as fast as 40 mph. This is an interesting quote:

"If one considers that elite sprinters can apply peak forces of 800 to 1,000 pounds with a single limb during each sprinting step, it's easy to believe that runners are probably operating at or near the force limits of their muscles and limbs," he said. "However, our new data clearly show that this is not the case. Despite how large the running forces can be, we found that the limbs are capable of applying much greater ground forces than those present during top-speed forward running."

Also note the article talks about the trend toward taller runners with longer strides.

All this taken together I think that the idea that a BF approaching 8' tall should be able to run 40 mph quite easily. As I've noted in my recent post in the Bigfoot and Trains if you google "BFRO chasing deer" you will find numerous reports of bigfoot chasing after deer. Deer run 40 mph.

Sighting reports that talk about how amazed the witnesses are at the speed of BF are one of the most common themes. Running through very difficult terrain, including running right through and breaking small trees in their path, running up steep cliffs that humans would require a rope and climbing gear, etc. etc.

BF are more muscular than humans, and likely have greater bone mass than humans. The amount of force they can apply would be much greater. The leaping ability of BF has been noted in other threads. Like the sighting report of a BF from a standing start leaping over 6' high brush and 20' horizontally. With that kind of force I would certainly think BF would be capable based on size, stride length, and maximum thrust, to be able to achieve 40 mph.

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

40mph isn't too far fetched. Looking at their stride length, we know it's wayyyy longer than any human's stride length. That itself is a big advantage when running. Combining that with their legendary strength, 40mph isn't silly at all. I believe it's likely they have the strength to do it.

[Guest COGrizzly]

Incredibly well thought out Tontar.

I always thought they needed to run fast to catch deer and elk. Here is a report of Sasquatch actually stalking elk.

http://bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=5641

In this report, it states the Sasquatch were stalking the elk in the open with heavily wooded area behind them.

[Guest]

So look at the PGF and ask yourself if you can honestly imagine that subject running at 40-45 mph.

That subject is either real or it is a hoax.

Much more likely that speed could be obtained from a quadruped than a biped. Especially if the weight is 700lbs +.

Yes, the notion of such is silly IMO and I'd like to see some substantiating proof.

It is on those claiming they can reach those speeds to prove it.

I like a challenge, but I would consider that an unenviable one.

[Guest BFSleuth]

What sort of substantiating proof do you have in mind?

[Guest]

A confimed, documented, and substantiated BF running that speed of course.

I'll pay top dollar for it.

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

If the fastest men can reach 28mph then imagine what the fastest Sasquatch can achieve.

[Guest Tontar]

Combining that with their legendary strength, 40mph isn't silly at all. I believe it's likely they have the strength to do it.

"Legendary" being the operative word. Tall tales do not make a real physical creature. Also, strength alone doe snot equal speed. Power for speed is a lot different from power for performing load bearing work. Powerlifters are unarguably strong. Ever see one run? :-) Ever see a top sprinter try to powerlift? :-)

Weight and mass act against speed. The greater the mass, and the greater the weight, the greater the power needed to get it moving, or get it stopping. There are a lot of physical factors that have to be accounted for when trying to reverse engineer an animal for speed.

Puff, I am glad to see you, as a believer, demonstrating what skepticism truly is. I appreciate that more than you can imagine. :-)

Speaking of the PGF. When people imagine bigfoots as being capable of this, and capable of that, and all the myriad abilities and capabilities that they now are endowed with, I always have to come back to the PGF. If all of these things are possible, then those characteristics are Patty's worst nightmare in terms of her being authentic. If Patty were to be able to run at 40 mph, or jump 20 feet in a standing broadjump, or climb a steep rock wall, then she ought to be a lot more buff than she is, and a lot more lithe as well. Her butt ought to display a cleft in it far deeper than what it does or doesn't in the film, and it ought to show flexibility and a lot more movement than the minimal amount it actually does.

So whenever I hear extraordinary claims, I look at Patty. Is she the real deal, or is she not, can she jump 20 feet? can she run 40 mph? If bigfoot can do all the things they are supposed to be able to, then I'd think Patty was fake., But if patty is real, then I'd need to scale down all of those expected abilities because Patty sure doesn't exemplify what a being should be carrying around in order to do all those things.

Kind of like, if bigfoots can run 40-45 mph, then that means Patty isn't a bigfoot, and if Patty is a bigfoot, then bigfoots can't run 40-45 mph. She just doesn't have it in her.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Tontar

[Guest MikeG]

I am no bio-mechanician, but my understanding is that our limbs have a relatively short "overhang" or distance between the fulcrum and the muscle/ ligament insertion point. This makes for easy, efficient movement, but not particularly powerful movement. Think of it like this: if you were to pick up a horizontal 8 foot length of 2x4 timber in one hand by the last inch, and rotate it through 180 vertical degrees, you would get a very different result compared with grasping it 6 inches from the end and trying the same manouevre.

So, it is perfectly possible that another animal with exactly the same mass, muscle fibre type and bulk, and bone strength, but with very different "overhangs" at the knees and elbows, would have a very different top speed compared with us. It would also be able to pick up much heavier weights.

Here we are speculating on it's musculature, and yet we haven't even proved it lives and breathes. Nuts, really!!

Mike

[Guest]

When I read folks accepting claims of Kentucky Derby speeds for bigfoot all I can think is "Don't y'all ever watch basketball?" If stride length and muscle mass were what determined running speed, then Shaquille O'Neal should've been one of the fastest basketball players ever.

I mean c'mon. Who's faster on the court, Tony Parker or Timmy Duncan? Russell Westbrook or Kendrick Perkins? Rajon Rondo or Kevin Garnett? Jason Kidd or Dirk Nowitsky? Cooper or Kareem? Isiah or Laimbeer? Muggsy or Manute?

[Guest Tontar]

If the fastest men can reach 28mph then imagine what the fastest Sasquatch can achieve.

Why imagine anything, let's go catch one and see how fast it can run in a safe, secure, open range facility. Time one and see how fast it can do 50 yards or so. No need to imagine anything when we can actually test for reliable data.

Short of that, the best sort of estimation is not imagining things, but looking at other similar animals, their behavior, their abilities, and doing as little extrapolating as possible. How fast can a gorilla run on its hind legs. How fast can a chimp run on its hind legs. How fast can any primate or bipedal mammal run on its hand legs. Use that data as comparable references. man will be the fastest, the top of the bipedal primate running pyramid.

Imagining unrealistic things about bigfoot is like what Puff said, it's what keeps skeptics or scoftics, not taking bigfoot seriously.

Bigfoot apparently walks everywhere it goes. Rarely does it run. How many tracks have indicated running? Even the best running locations ever, smooth dirt logging roads, show walking not running. So bigfoots are going to walk long distances along exposed dirt roads where they might be seen, yet they will sprint at incredible speeds through forests, breaking and busting small trees and branches as they go? I think bigfoots are made of skin and bone, right? You take a horse through brush like that, you get cuts and scrapes and injuries. Why no blood, skin, hair from bigfoots if they barge through brush like wild bulls? If bigfoot has anything in common with other mammals, or other primates specifically, then they would not be invincible, or impervious to injury. They barge through the kind of brush here in the NW, they are going to get torn up. They have skin, skin tears and cuts. They have bare feet, feet break, tear, bruise. So do ankles, shins, and so on. It's far more easy for me to see bigfoot as a paced, moderate moving creature, moving most like a man through the woods, looking, foraging, creeping quietly. It's next to impossible for me to imagine a bigfoot charging headlong through the forest to chase a deer at high speeds, when the risk of injury is so extremely high for it to do so.

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

Powerlifters & Bodybuilders aren't the greatest example. Their muscles for sprinting are out of proportion. Their hip flexors are very weak compared to their other muscles. Their body weighs them down a lot. Sasquatch aren't like that. Their natural strength simply exceeds ours. So yeah more strength in the right muscles = more speed, I hope that helps

[Guest Tontar]

....Here we are speculating on it's musculature, and yet we haven't even proved it lives and breathes. Nuts, really!! Mike

Yes, agreed. But we have the PGF. We can apply some of the basics to Patty. Is she real? Or is she fake? If she's real, we can see that her legs look almost identical to ours, superficially. She doesn't look to have dramatic running structure. Nothing looking like a custom running set of joints.

I don't like speculating wildly on the various possibilities either, which is why I prefer to relate possible characteristics to what creatures we already know about.

Powerlifters & Bodybuilders aren't the greatest example. Their muscles for sprinting are out of proportion. Their hip flexors are very weak compared to their other muscles. Their body weighs them down a lot. Sasquatch aren't like that. Their natural strength simply exceeds ours. So yeah more strength in the right muscles = more speed, I hope that helps

Looking at Patty, it looks like her body weighs her down a lot too. She does not have the remotest resemblance to a sprinter.

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

Your right patty doesn't look very agile, but if she has the right strength in her legs to move her forward then I guess she will.