The Sykes / Sartori Report - Oxford-Lausanne Collateral Hominid Project

[BobbyO]

Sykes is not "leaning your way", trust me on this.  The thing is, of course, he doesn't have to be.  Nobody has to lean any way when it comes for DNA testing.  If someone can actually find a sample that comes from a Bigfoot and is willing to pay to have a lab test it, that's all that is needed.  It's helpful to have Sykes doing it for free, but I suspect he is not going to be doing that forever.

.

Think you're completely contradicting yourself there.

For him to be doing it for free in the first place shows a leaning, whether you like that or not.

Anyway, it's irrelevant.

Something that struck me through the whole series that nobody who submitted a sample actually saw where the sample came from which doesn't bode well for anything.

Even Smeja who from day one was saying that he wasn't 100% that the steak came from what he shot.

As per usual, I'm disappointed with the researchers > samples involved in this more than the show or subject although I do understand how difficult it use be to obtain any kind of sampe which is why people jump the gun and get excited regarding samples that in truth, they have no idea what they are or where they come from in the first place.

[Guest Llawgoch]

For him to do it for free shows a curiosity, in his own words, which is a very different thing from a leaning.  .I also imagine it wasn't him that was paying for it, but the film company, who were also presumably paying him for his time so he personally wasn't doing anything for free .  

[Guest]

I am persuaded Dr. Sykes is interested in the evolution of humans, and thinks BFs might be part of the story and is at a place in his career and life where he can do this..and the science is there..too..or close.  i don't think he would submit to any MIB/society/peer pressure/control.  But, he will report as most scientists, conservatively and with what he can show, or suggest to further discover an answer.

 

It wouldn't be that hard to somehow consolidate or find a willing person/group with good microscopes to do at least a preliminary typing of hair, for obvious knowns (assuming human hair isn't on the exclusion list).  In the past, Farenbach did do that, to a standard he developed over time, and that collection of reportedly hundreds (? or tens) of hairs is still in his possession, but apparently inaccessible to us or Meldrum right now.  

 

None were submitted to Sykes, and most mounted..what process unknown that would render unusable, but that's the word.  Meldrum offerred at some oint to prescreen for the community, perhaps a few months after the study was announced and   Meldrum said one sample sent to Sykes thru him, but in past he sent all he got to Henner.  

 

Shortly after, Bigfootology responded publicly that the US contact for the O-L would be them, not Meldrum.  Meldrum went quiet.  

 

The choice to test what, by who is unknown to me, but I know in this forum at least one person mentioned they could not get a response from one of these mentioned to send hair.  Anyway, I doubt many have a good microscope, and to take to a wildlife lab, or University for a serious wildlife pre-screen is again money, or who?  I don't think many went thru Meldrum, especially if they feel the Farenbach standard for BF hair is too limited.  

 

I contacted Sykes directly perhaps a day after the O-L website was posted, and he responded. And remained my contact. I returned to the site in 2012 for the purpose without success.  And, it's on my mind to try again, as he is leaving this opportunity open....that is the BIG step here... and the pre-screening now taken care of b/c..at $1,500 to send in a bust..means spending time or money to get some pre-screeen one desires worth it...and a refund of that $1,500 if you get a BF result...whatever that is!

 

But, IMO this all highlights or leaves BFRO as a group really as not a part of the "community" but an industry to itself.......where are they on this study (Bart and Stan apparently submitted one sample each)....as the  proudly proclaimed only scientific group...and with FB resources...  and all those witnesses, etc..what happened there?

 

 I can't think of any public support or call for samples thru them..or the show?   But, granted I don't watch many...could be just my opinion is poor b/c I don't respect MM.  And, seems to me such a group, with so many volunteers, could own a microscope..not so hard to train anyone to at least type some obvious animals....   or any claimed Group...the thing is..these big claims on websites, all of them really,  (with exception maybe of BFRO) are really just people like me, and some buddies...maybe an "in"  with Meldrum, or a great book, whatever...

 

but, we can't pool those together well and generate a real group/society that can move forward for the greater good... (oh sounds corny I know!) it just seems to take a few, well placed, to....divide and conquer...

 

I see AP has put up a "show evidence" map...on their site..hum, some just are doing fine without really trying to solve this...and have been actually obstructive for many...ask MK I suppose....or Nature.. just my two cents...and I know there are great researchers and evidence/reports from BFRO... one just has to take the good, for what it is..  and work around the funky

 

We could only muster like 30 some samples total from the US?  or the study?  Won't know till the paper is out, which I do hope is soon!  And I do appreciate all the efforts, of everyone who did try and join in, whatever they sent.  To hold back on a free offer is not my style!

Edited November 8, 2013 by apehuman

[Guest Stan Norton]

What happened to the samples from Heuvelmans? Are these results to come or were they all rubbish?

[Lake County Bigfooot]

Llawgoch

Yes it may be a bit optimistic on my part concerning Sykes, but I cannot help but picture him sitting with
Kwit's scull and pondering the possibility, to suggest it is to open the door. So sorry I think that was
more than throwing us a bone, pardon the pun. It is obvious that many of us are entrenched in our views on
this matter, and will not be convinced of the existence, or non existence, without further study. The sampling
of hairs gathered by relative novices in the field, no offence to our researchers, is not a basis for a rigorous

scientific study, that would require trained field biologists, and some exhaustive efforts.  If unusual hair could

be identified before going to a lab, beyond the superficial aspects, this would possibly amount to something

over time.  There would be Millions of hairs of everything else out there to weed out, so this is not some

task to be left to novice researchers, no matter how committed or "expert" they claim to be, and even then

it's one in a million to simply find one, and those are optimistic odds at best.  Plucking one off the creature

is perhaps the only sure bet, any volunteers?  Setting some types of hair traps is the only thing we can do

and cough up fifteen bills, not Washingtons, and pray.  That is not good science, just sets us up to look like

the fools we most likely are. 

Edited November 8, 2013 by Lake County Bigfooot

[Guest]

LCB I have heard that opinion echoed by more than one, and have so thought myself sometimes.  

 

The alternatives are few, and it remains an amateur endeavor for most of us, with this small exception, an interested renown scientist..albeit now for dollars, will provide testing and analysis of hair samples..... behooves the amateur to educate themselves, to hair, to DNA analysis.

 

 Or, rely on our "scientific groups" which are?  BFRO? In absentia (or a cool TV spot)...and Meldrum? For hair and genetics?  

 

I agree completely, if we could get scientists/anthropologists in the field, with resources, and a venue to publish....and stay employed, we would know more than the average long time BFer... quickly....

 

but, they won't even look at our evidence...none that I could find..

 

oh wait! I take that back.. I do now have one serious scientist totally up...on basically everyone's level/evidence...and the thing is?  That person will never come forward, not in these conditions...but man, what a boon to me, nothing I can translate to others, just educates me better...I guess. No one knows the future...retirement comes for us all and they may join the effort then, .hopefully!

 

Not only can we not get conventional scientists to look, but many of us cannot get our own BFer biggies to look, or even respond....  some for good reasons, others not so much....

 

So, yeah LCB  buyer beware, always...

 

But, I also think maybe this last round of a flattened field, except for the commercial powerhouses, might be the time to create an overarching society...by who? haha, I am so burned out on all this!  .

Edited November 8, 2013 by apehuman

[Guest]

i wonder if the success and popularity of Finding Bigfoot has been a serious negative for getting serious attention, not just the comic "BFers", but the message:

 

 

 a giant bi-pedal "ape" is out there..    unknown to science, fossil or living...

 

Most "BF uniformed" biologists or anthropologists w/o hesitation think, huh?  Bi-pedal ape?  These guys are idiots!  And that ends any more of their thinking about BFers claims...or willingness to look...we are all crazy idiots as shown on TV.

 

Maybe if we were "selling" an archaic human population, bi-pedal duh, and possibly akin to the Red Deer Cave people alive 11,000ybp.(who ate giant deer, and had a very BF looking skull, and big molars) ..or even the Hobbit. (evidence of the range of evolution of erectus..4' hobbits 17,000 ybp  to the erectus Turkana boy at 5'3" and 8years old over a million ybp!)..  and so on....they might not all recoil from the bad biology/taxonomy/archaeology of the BFRO/FB ape presentation/mantra on first hearing?

 

Of course, that would change the FB script just a tad (and BFRO website)..and heck, why change what works...in profit we trust.

Edited November 8, 2013 by apehuman

[southernyahoo]

Regardless of the findings in these episodes, I think Sykes is most likely not a dismissive type, and openly objective towards evidence. He entered the frey with a challenge to provide evidence, I like that style of enquiry. The recent buzz from Rhetman would indicate there was some behind the scenes admissions and some would have been too late for the findings of the show, and perhaps joined with other samples not reported on. Sykes is still testing while writing his paper and book, so the case is simply not closed.

[Guest]

No doubt.  I choose to to think he will be coming out with view changing revelations regarding human history, as the publisher promised... although, we should know soon enough...and, can't imagine anything based on such a small sample set as being the end of the inquiry, yeah or nay.

[Guest]

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-evolution-timeline-interactive[/url]

I find this interactive timeline a great resource. Paranthropus boisei is an interesting possibility. Uses basic tools, bipedal, big molars, sagital crest and interestingly found living side by side Home erectus. Couple of screen shots for you below.

The timeline is from the Smithsonian mind you, and they do seem to love a good cover up (Giants threads lol).

The Dmanisi skull could very well mean this is all informed misinformation though. Objectively the skull of a modern 8 foot Sudanese man and a 5 foot China man you wouldnt be a fool to question they were both homo sap. Dmanisi definitely pushing some egos to boiling point it seems.

Re Finding Bigfoot, yeah i watch it sometimes and enjoy it on occasion but it definitely makes me cringe sometimes the way the term 'evidence' is thrown about.

Not very clear pics, have a look at the link for the 411:

Edited November 9, 2013 by kezra

[Lake County Bigfooot]

No doubt A/H the whole BF/rs marry go round, dog and pony show, thing gets old.  At least this was real science on their end,

that's a start.  Maybe the discovery of something novel will be the tipping point to get scientists in the field.  I recently re-watched

the monsterquest Sasquatch attacks cabin part 2, the second Meldrum visit.  It was really funny how these guys were hauling

everything out there, cluttering the landscape with camera's, it must have looked like a war zone to any Sasquatch in the area.

Then theres a sighting 100 miles south of them where the blueberries are ripe.  Could they not anticipate that blueberries might be a key? Maybe rent the cabin for several weeks or a month and get the timing right, or simply stay a month?  Man the scientists looked more ridiculous than us that time, and yes everyone has learned over time.  To really get at the heart of their behavior will take some one with funding to spend some years out in the brush, living side by side to this animal, somehow learning it's behavior and documenting it's patterns, this would be only possible to a funded field biologist, or a team of dedicated persons willing to tag team, which I think has been attempted.  It all comes down to persistence, knowledge, patience, and loads of ingenuity in the field to adapt to their cagy cunning demeanor.  I just think the one week trip Monsterquest thing is a real joke......

Edited November 9, 2013 by Lake County Bigfooot

[Guest]

Dr. Disotell and Justin Smeja were on Rictor after hours talk radio the other night talking about the Sykes study.  I would post it, but there is language that you can't put on this message board so I don't think I'm supposed to post it.  Not sure about that though. 

 

Just look up After hours with Rictor - Episode 20 The sykes study if you want to hear it.   Disotell is on in the second half.  It's a pretty good listen and pretty candid.

[Guest]

What did they have to say about it?  I can't stand the thought of listening to one of these BF shows for longer than 30 seconds--they are terrible.

[chelefoot]

^^^They had Justin to give his take on the episode he was in. Justin was not happy with it at all. He felt that they screwed the story up - bigtime. Not a happy camper. But he still holds out hope that Sykes might come up with something at some point. He just didn't like the spin that the show put on his story.

 

Rictor expressed his dislike of Mark, the host. However they all agreed that the show and Mark are separate from Brian and the study.  (One thing to remember is that the show only revealed 12 of the samples out of over 30... )

 

Disotell came on to "clear up" a misunderstanding between himself and Ketchum .  But when asked about his opinion of Sykes results so far, I was pleased that he was quick to point out that the Yeti results do not show that Yeti is a bear.  It only shows that the 2 samples that Sykes tested were bear and that doesn't necessarily represent the "Yeti".  He showed off his Bigfoot tattoo and said he will wear his bIgfoot t-shirt tomorrow.  Yep, I thought that was too funny.

 

Disotell tested Kwuit's skull in 2008 and came  up with modern human...but said he didn't continue looking once they got that much because they were simply looking for evidence whether or not Zana was Neanderthal.... which she isn't.  He is going to meet with Sykes in the Spring and plans to dig out his data and compare notes.

 

That's the highlights... (I just watched it).

 

And in case anyone hasn't seen Episode 3 yet:

[southernyahoo]

Chelefoot, can you elaborate on this?

 

Disotell came on to "clear up" a misunderstanding between himself and Ketchum 

 

Disotell has not been too kind to Ketchum in the past, just curious what was said.

 

Thanks for the episode, finally got to see it.