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The Sykes / Sartori Report - Oxford-Lausanne Collateral Hominid Project

Guest gershake

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Guest TexasTracker

Guest TexasTracker

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The following is directly from Nature Magazine today.... More fuel for the fire... I like this !!!

 

 

New genome sequences from two extinct human relatives suggest that these ‘archaic’ groups bred with humans and with each other more extensively than was previously known.

The ancient genomes, one from a Neanderthal and one from a different archaic human group, the Denisovans, were presented on 18 November at a meeting at the Royal Society in London. They suggest that interbreeding went on between the members of several ancient human-like groups living in Europe and Asia more than 30,000 years ago, including an as-yet unknown human ancestor from Asia.

“What it begins to suggest is that we’re looking at a ‘Lord of the Rings’-type world — that there were many hominid populations,†says Mark Thomas, an evolutionary geneticist at University College London who was at the meeting but was not involved in the work.

The first Neanderthal1 and the Denisovan2 genome sequences revolutionized the study of ancient human history, not least because they showed that these groups interbred with anatomically modern humans, contributing to the genetic diversity of many people alive today.

All humans whose ancestry originates outside of Africa owe about 2% of their genome to Neanderthals; and certain populations living in Oceania, such as Papua New Guineans and Australian Aboriginals, got about 4% of their DNA from interbreeding between their ancestors and Denisovans, who are named after the cave in Siberia’s Altai Mountains where they were discovered. The cave contains remains deposited there between 30,000 and 50,000 years ago.

Those conclusions however were based on low-quality genome sequences, riddled with errors and full of gaps, David Reich, an evolutionary geneticist at Harvard Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts said at the meeting. His team, in collaboration with Svante Pääbo at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, have now produced much more complete versions of the Denisovan and Neanderthal genomes — matching the quality of contemporary human genomes. The high-quality Denisovan genome data and new Neanderthal genome both come from bones recovered from Denisova Cave.

The new Denisovan genome indicates that this enigmatic population got around: Reich said at the meeting that they interbred with Neanderthals and with the ancestors of human populations that now live in China and other parts of East Asia, in addition to Oceanic populations, as his team previously reported. Most surprisingly, Reich said, the new genomes indicate that Denisovans interbred with another extinct population of archaic humans that lived in Asia more than 30,000 years ago, which is neither human nor Neanderthal.

The meeting was abuzz with conjecture about the identity of this potentially new population of humans. “We don’t have the faintest idea,†says Chris Stringer, a paleoanthropologist at the London Natural History Museum, who was not involved in the work. He speculates that the population could be related to Homo heidelbergensis, a species that left Africa around half a million years ago and later gave rise to Neanderthals in Europe. “Perhaps it lived on in Asia as well,†Stringer says.



Sorry Apehuman... I didn't read since last night before I posted.. you stole my thunder !!!!

 

Llawgoch.... I think you're losing this one.

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Not really Texas Tracker. you can't link two completely separate studies and say they are the same thing. Syke's results do not prove anything but sub Saharan descent. You can't make up your own conclusions.

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Guest Stan Norton

Guest Stan Norton

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BP.

You're correct in one sense but, given the results of this latest study, it is perfectly valid to speculate on the possibility that archaic homo lineages persisted into modern times. It's quite apparent that the field of human evolution is fluid and therefore it is unwise to make assumptions in any direction.

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texastracker it isn't my original research..haha, and glad to see others expand on the significance..

 

I can share this, and to me it is telling, for what it's worth..

I made three posts on Meldrum's FB page over a week. All remained but one, the link to the story about the Red Deer Cave people by Dr. Curnoe..in an article titled, "Evolution Revolution." hummmm 

 

It seems some are not excited about human evolution...or how that might relate to our bi-pedal bigfoots.

 

The third article you have there... on the "weak statistics"  looks interesting, and seems a legitimate issue given the way in which genomes are constructed... 

 

But, bottom line seems to be..... a mystery 'ancestor' ......!

 

p.s.  oh! the BFRO also took it down..that article, even after several "likes"....interesting..two people committed to an ape theory..can't even entertain this news? wow..

also interesting... i dropped in a few other FB groups, were it remained and received more likes than any post I have made since trying to navigate this Facebook phenomenon of BFers/groups (if you haven't looked, it's probably time...argg...darn that FB) and picked up and shared thru others into other groups...it is good news...for many of us anyway!

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Guest Stan Norton

Guest Stan Norton

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Yeah, but where are its fossils?

;-)

Like most human ancestor fossils, either in miserably tiny crumbly fragments on an eroding hillside somewhere or encased in breccia in some remote cave!

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TimB Yowie

TimB

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Like most human ancestor fossils, either in miserably tiny crumbly fragments on an eroding hillside somewhere or encased in breccia in some remote cave!

 

Unless I'm not understanding things, fossils are minerals that have replaced the original organic material slowly so as to keep the shape.  or am I not understanding that correctly?

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Guest Llawgoch

Guest Llawgoch

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The following is directly from Nature Magazine today.... More fuel for the fire... I like this !!!

 

 

 

Llawgoch.... I think you're losing this one.

 

 

Please don't be absurd.  This is NO way means anything for the survival of archaic hominids until the 1800s, particularly when the only evidence we have for the person you are speculating about is modern sub Saharan African DNA.  There is no need to conjecture,, and no grounds for conjecture. We have known hom sapiens spent most of his time on this planet coexisting with other homo species for a very long time now; that is not the issue.  The issue is whether they could exist now without evidence.

 

It is soul destroying, because even though Sykes took pains to say the archaic idea was simply a flight of fancy backed by no evidence, many people here are  trying to use it to support further mad conjecture.  

Llawgoch, How could you possibly know what her nuDNA said? "Without evidence we must assume what I think" is a bit presumptious, no? Without Zana's nuDNA, there is no "solid evidence" of her father's lineage.

 

Without evidence we must assume that the DNA of a person tested to be modern human was probably modern human in the non testable bits.  Why on earth would you assume otherwise?  You're conjecturing a "Bigfoot" father simply because we don't know for certain who the father was.  Can you not see the absurdity of that?  Why do you still think it's a possibility...surely not the folk tales about her being hairy.

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I'm actually not conjecturing or assuming anything. That's your bailiwick, it appears. I don't know therefore I won't guess. Thanks for calling not jumping to conclusions absurd. Why would Zana be of interest at all, if not for the "folktales"?  Just curious, when does eyewitness testimony turn into "folktales"? Is there an expiration date? I can show you hirsute folks living today, pictures and scientific explanations for their condition and everything.


 


I find her story interesting, and am not emotionally attached whatever the outcome.


 


I wish your soul well in it's struggle against destruction by ""mad conjecture". :o


Edited by stinkyfeet
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Guest Llawgoch

Guest Llawgoch

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I'm actually not conjecturing or assuming anything. That's your bailiwick, it appears. I don't know therefore I won't guess. Thanks for calling not jumping to conclusions absurd. Why would Zana be of interest at all, if not for the "folktales"?  Just curious, when does eyewitness testimony turn into "folktales"? Is there an expiration date? I can show you hirsute folks living today, pictures and scientific explanations for their condition and everything.

 

I find her story interesting, and am not emotionally attached whatever the outcome.

 

I wish your soul well in it's struggle against destruction by ""mad conjecture". :o

 

 

Well I will carry on assuming that human people have human fathers, thanks.  Even if I don't have DNA evidence to support it.  I will jump to the conclusion that my own father was human, although his nuDNA was also never tested.

 

Eyewitness testimony turns into folktales when we don't have eyewitness testimony.  All we have is third or fourth hand accounts of Zana.  These are not eye witness testimony.  If you know of anything claiming to be eye witness testimony, please point me at it.

 

Sorry you've never come across the phrase "soul destroying" before, I can't help that.

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We have contemporary eyelwitness testimony of Zana being extradinarily strong and hirsute feral person. Fairly hard to come up with people today who lived across the street from her in the 19th century. If she was only a folktale, it would be exceedingly hard to find relatives of hers, living and dead, no? Her mitchondrial DNA was not what was expected, unless you expected an african subtype. I'm curious to know what her father's DNA ight hold. It may be unexpected too.

 

I have come across soul detroying before. It seems you're using it in a way that might be over the top, even in a metaphorical sense. That's just conjecture though...

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chelefoot Skunk Ape

chelefoot

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Well I will carry on assuming that human people have human fathers, thanks.  Even if I don't have DNA evidence to support it.  I will jump to the conclusion that my own father was human, although his nuDNA was also never tested.

 

Eyewitness testimony turns into folktales when we don't have eyewitness testimony.  All we have is third or fourth hand accounts of Zana.  These are not eye witness testimony.  If you know of anything claiming to be eye witness testimony, please point me at it.

 

Sorry you've never come across the phrase "soul destroying" before, I can't help that.

Then it is ok for you to assume it's human with no proof, but not ok for anyone to even think about alternative ideas?

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