Sasquatch Kills Hunter?

[Guest Coonbo]

Coonbo, I enjoyed your recounting, and respect your experience.

I'm interested, given your experience and knowledge base, what is your opinion regarding whether or not some bigfoot actually prey on humans?

This isn't a loaded question. When you're face to face with a bigfoot, your fate is more in its hands than your own. Though they did not, I've had some experiences that could have turned out badly.

JDL: I believe that at some time, somewhere, there most likely have been some BF that preyed upon humans. When I say preyed, I mean killed and eaten them. That being said, I believe that it is much more common that BF have killed humans out of anger or retribution or just plain meanness or because the human wouldn't do something the BF wanted it to do. Each one of them is an individual, and like humans, the vast majority won't hurt you, and I believe many of them are curious about us and some, especially juveniles, like to mess with us. But, like you said, our fate is in THEIR hands when we have an up close encounter with them.

I've been charged a few times, and in one of those incidents I believe that there was a fairly high probability that we would have been at least injured, maybe not killed, had we not been well armed and pointed our shotguns at the alpha male. However, even then, if he had wanted us dead, we couldn't have stopped him and the two subordinate males with him before they did us in. As it was, they stopped about 20 feet in front of us, and he sceamed at us while we stood there shaking in our boots with our shotguns' safeties off, fingers on the triggers, and pointed at him. We had a Mexican standoff for about 30 seconds or so and then they just faded back into the brush. This was the second up-close encounter I'd had with that particular booger and, the first time, I was by myself and it resulted in me jumping into the truck and getting out of there, but before I could get going, he threw a large, heavy stick at my truck and put a big dent in the side of the bed. That particular booger was fairly belligerent before he got used to me.

By the way, I don't openly carry a weapon when I'm BF'n anymore. I believe they create more problems than they would ever solve.

But back to your original question, there have been a number of unexplained disappearances that I believe were or could have been BF related. Right off the top of my head, I can recall several that happened around an Indian school in Oklahoma, some that happened around the Carbon Hills, Alabama area, a lady that disappeared in Queen Wilhelmina State Park in the Ouachita National Forest in Arkansas, unexplained drownings where the bodies were (supposedly) never recovered in a lake in Oklahoma, a guy that disappeared off of his tractor while mowing after dark in Tennessee, and several children disappearances in Florida and other states. And there are others that I can't remember just now. And there are others, where the bodies were found but were mutilated in a way that nothing else in the area could have done it. Some that come immediately to mind are the deaths of a couple that was "parking" and making out near Brown Springs, Oklahoma, and the deaths of some campers in the Land Between the Lakes National Recreation Area in Kentucky.

Hope that somewhat answers your question.

Coonbo

[Guest Coonbo]

BFSleuth: Yes, Mike had had encounters with BF before this happened. He and his family had hunted, fished, and camped that area a lot previously and that's how he knew it so well. I questioned him about his statement about the weapons and he replied sorta off-handedly that he had seen them when he had nothing in his hands, but when he was carrying something like an ax, fishing rod or gun, they seemed lots more shy or spooky. From his use of the word "spooky", I took that to mean spooky like a horse gets at times when it's scared of something.

Concerning the newspapers: At the time, I figured that if someone, especially a hunter (which, at the time, hunters made a large contribution to the local economy) had actually been killed by any wild animal it would have been in ALL the local papers, and probably many of the papers in the hunting communities throughout that part of the state and north central New Mexico. Later that year, 1988, my friend Carl and his girlfriend took some vacation time and spent some time back in that area. They rode the steam train out of Antonito, CO (the Cumbres and Toltec Railroad, I believe), and spent time in northern New Mexico around Chama, Brazos, Los Ojos, Tres Piedras, and Taos areas. While there he did some digging in at least one of the local newspaper offices and he and the girlfriend did some BF researching in the area. He gleaned several sighting reports from folks and he found an article that he thought MIGHT have been about this incident in question. It referenced an attack in that area of CO, and said that the hunter was severely mauled. I don't remember if the hunter was named or not. Carl thought there was something fishy or weird about the way the article was written. He used to be a Deputy Sheriff, so he went to the local Sheriff's office near Chama or Taos (don't remember which) and asked some questions. He said he found a deputy that had heard about the incident in the newspaper article, but he didn't get any useful info out of him. Unfortunately, I can't call Carl and pump his memory about this because he died of cancer about 4 years ago. But, what I DO remember was that after he poked around up there, Carl said he had a strong hunch that the incident was probably true. I never believed it that much. But years later when I learned more things that circumstantially corroborated Mike's story, it's really had me wondering.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Coonbo

[Guest]

Coonbo,

Thanks for posting those extra details and other stories.

[Guest BFSleuth]

I figured that if someone, especially a hunter (which, at the time, hunters made a large contribution to the local economy) had actually been killed by any wild animal it would have been in ALL the local papers, and probably many of the papers in the hunting communities throughout that part of the state and north central New Mexico.

Carl thought there was something fishy or weird about the way the article was written. He used to be a Deputy Sheriff, so he went to the local Sheriff's office near Chama or Taos (don't remember which) and asked some questions. He said he found a deputy that had heard about the incident in the newspaper article, but he didn't get any useful info out of him.

Given the importance of hunting in the local economy it may be a case of trying to downplay the severity of the event in the media. I hope that our resident newspaper archivist can bring this to light...

... hello, Tirademan?

[JDL]

Coonbo: Thanks, that was comprehensive and useful. I've been stalked a couple of times and had one major encounter that I've come to believe was "sprung" with intent. I think the only thing that prevented it from taking one of us was that there were more of us than it expected.

[Guest Nalajr]

Excellent recounting, Coonbo. Thank you. I can tell you the rifle that short stroked the loaded cartridge wasn't a true Mauser action, such as a pre '64 Winchester 70.

The reason is Mauser rifles were designed for combat, the 1898 Mauser considered the finest bolt action rifle of all times. The US 1903 Springfield is a direct descendent. Edit: And in dire emergencies, it's a common, human mistake to short stroke that action. Paul Mauser took that into account, and produced a rifle action that remedied the issue.

Again, kudos for a well told posting. My gratitude.

I was going to post the same thing. Those pre-64 Winchesters were absolutely FINE rifles, considered by many to be the finest rifles made in America. They were essentially hand made and assembled. That's why in 1964 they stopped making them the way they did. The pre-64 models, ones with serial numbers below 700,000 are the ones to have, that copy of the Mauser action with that push feed and extraction reliability....nothing but sweet.

Glad to see there are other GUN NUTS here in the forums...

By the way, I listened to that radio show and it was one of the best Sassy radio shows I've heard. I love listening to shows that talk about encounters like that, especially the scarier ones.

Nalajr

Nala

[Guest Transformer]

Since my post about the paper trails involving officials was not really dealt with I will bring it up again. A death of a person in the 1980's is not just going to be ho-hummed and not looked into. Fish and Game and local police and the coroner and the pathologist are going to be involved and there is no two ways about that and the family is going to be given the info and nobody is going to let their relative die an unexplained or uninvestigated death without the crap hitting the fan. Stories like this are just really too bad as they are sensational like the National Inquirer and should be given the same amount of credit.

[Guest BFSleuth]

I hear you T. At this point IMHO it is a good story that would need corroborating evidence to begin to be taken seriously as an actual event. Until further evidence is available I would file this in the Interesting but Unsubstantiated Story category. The fact that the story included the detail of the "twist off" decapitation method of killing that is also told in other stories is interesting, but not yet worthy of giving the story great credence.

[Guest Coonbo]

Since my post about the paper trails involving officials was not really dealt with I will bring it up again. A death of a person in the 1980's is not just going to be ho-hummed and not looked into. Fish and Game and local police and the coroner and the pathologist are going to be involved and there is no two ways about that and the family is going to be given the info and nobody is going to let their relative die an unexplained or uninvestigated death without the crap hitting the fan. Stories like this are just really too bad as they are sensational like the National Inquirer and should be given the same amount of credit.

Transformer: I don't believe you read what I wrote very carefully. I, too, believe there should have been a paper trail and I tried to find it, right there, real time, on the ground, in the area that it supposedly happened. I went to the office of the largest newspaper in the area and searched. I also went to the local Sheriff's office and asked questions. I couldn't even find out what county this supposedly happened in. My investigation for a paper trail yielded NO solid leads at all. At the time, I didn't have the time to go to the Sheriff's and Coroner's offices in at least four additional counties. And like I said before, I classified this as "Improbable/Unlikely" at the time. Plus, in spite of my friend Carl's further investigation, and his "hunch" that it might have been true, I dismissed it and pretty much forgot about it.

YEARS later we came across some info that sort of corroborates some details of Mike's story, caused me to remember it again, and has me wondering if there couldn't be some truth to it, BUT, like I said just above, even now I classify it as “Needs Much More Hard Evidence for Verificationâ€.

Now, to address your assumption that "nobody is going to let their relative die an unexplained or uninvestigated death without the crap hitting the fan." I can somewhat agree with that, but I know for a fact that there are sometimes deaths that are VERY thoroughly investigated, but the family isn't told the truth about what happened. Lots of folks that have worked in Law Enforcement or for various Government "agencies" can verify this.

[Guest Transformer]

Not any of the very high-ranking police officers I have known for pretty much all of their service (including my now retired husband) have verified any sort of this official lying about cause of death which would need the pathologist and coroner to deliberately falsify their reports too. What sort of event would cause this type of highly illegal conspiracy to be considered much less carried out? I'm getting a very bad vibe about this whole story that makes me think of tin-foil hats and kool-aid.

[JDL]

I can see a public safety officer defaulting to a bear mauling to explain such a death. After all, Bigfoot is not supposed to exist, right.

[Guest thermalman]

[Guest Transformer]

I can see a public safety officer defaulting to a bear mauling to explain such a death. After all, Bigfoot is not supposed to exist, right.

Can you also see a Fish and Game and police cover-up that involves the coroner and pathologist too? There must have been an autopsy and a Corner's Report. Again I ask for any credible reason why so many people would conspire together to break the law and risk losing their careers and face prosecution for such a thing.

[JDL]

Yes, I can see it. Imagine if the group were to announce to the public not only that bigfoot exist, but that they rip people's heads off. If I were in that position and felt that the circumstances were not likely to be repeated, I would attribute the situation to a bear mauling rather than create a situation that incites public reaction that may well result in a greater threat to public safety. If I thought that the bigfoot were on a rampage, I'd certainly inform the public for safety's sake.

[Guest]

I've been charged a few times, and in one of those incidents I believe that there was a fairly high probability that we would have been at least injured, maybe not killed, had we not been well armed and pointed our shotguns at the alpha male. However, even then, if he had wanted us dead, we couldn't have stopped him and the two subordinate males with him before they did us in. As it was, they stopped about 20 feet in front of us, and he sceamed at us while we stood there shaking in our boots with our shotguns' safeties off, fingers on the triggers, and pointed at him. We had a Mexican standoff for about 30 seconds or so and then they just faded back into the brush. This was the second up-close encounter I'd had with that particular booger and, the first time, I was by myself and it resulted in me jumping into the truck and getting out of there, but before I could get going, he threw a large, heavy stick at my truck and put a big dent in the side of the bed. That particular booger was fairly belligerent before he got used to me.

By the way, I don't openly carry a weapon when I'm BF'n anymore. I believe they create more problems than they would ever solve.

Coonbo

Just a couple of questions for you.

1. Was the "charging" incident that occurred upon you and your buddies. What time of the day was it?

2. Open Carry/Concealed Carry.....is it possible that the buggers can smell gun powder?

TIA

Edited June 24, 2012 by treadstone