Guest Coonbo Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) ^^^ Bingo!!! Give that man a cigar! I used to work for the government, and I can tell you that I, for danged sure, would not have written the cause of death as bigfoot attack. I would have put something like possible bear attack and then noted that wild animals had scattered the body parts. BUT like I've said before, I couldn't find any hard evidence of a death due to bear attack during the supposed time frame in the four county area that I'm pretty sure we were in. I'm most confident that the place Mike showed us was in Conejos County, CO. And I'll say yet again that the incident needs more hard evidence before it can be verified. I'll also state that Transformer's outlook on the "massaging" of paperwork by the Sheriff, coroner, funeral director and so on is a very naive one, in spite of her apparent relationship with a LEO in an "important position". In my years with the Gov't, I saw numerous incidents where details in paperwork, including details of deaths, were "massaged" for one reason or another. Edited June 28, 2012 by Coonbo To remove quote of directly preceding post
Guest Transformer Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) Hmmm.... You keep accusing me of accusing others of conspiracy. Not what I'm doing. I'm talking about officials simply stopping short of the proving the truth and chalking it up to bigfoot, therefore only attributable to a more prosaic cause, even though the evidence in the case may be a bit strange. That said, I maintain that there are times when it is best for a public official to simply keep their mouth shut in the interest of public safety. And please do not accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist again. From wiki: A conspiracy theory explains an event as being the result of an alleged plot by a covert group or organization or, more broadly, the idea that important political, social or economic events are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public. http://en.wikipedia....nspiracy_theory If the shoe fits. I have to agree with Transformer on the whole conspiracy thing. My 30 years in law enforcement would lead me to believe that the incident would possibly be wrote up as a 'possible' bear attack, or another 'unknown' animal. None of the LEOs that I worked with would knowingly falsify a report, not because they were all so honest, just that they wouldn't want to risk losing their job. As for families buying into the story without demanding further information or more details, I've seen plenty of families accept reports of a death with no hesitation. That includes one in particular where a man was beheaded in a logging accident. I had never thought of that one being suspicious myslef until now. Good story never the less. I am certain that the report a real police officer (like yourself) would write "possible bear attack" or "unknown animal". But would you leave out the witness statement or illegally remove the part about the sasquatch? I don't think so because you would write up the witness statement exactly as the witness described and probably make reference to whether or not you believed the witness and point out that the creature he described was not known to science and is considered a legend or a myth. Failure to interview and document the ONLY witness to a human death is a pretty big no-no in my part of the world and I think it would be the same in yours. Bingo!!! Give that man a cigar! I used to work for the government, and I can tell you that I, for danged sure, would not have written the cause of death as bigfoot attack. I would have put something like possible bear attack and then noted that wild animals had scattered the body parts. BUT like I've said before, I couldn't find any hard evidence of a death due to bear attack during the supposed time frame in the four county area that I'm pretty sure we were in. I'm most confident that the place Mike showed us was in Conejos County, CO. And I'll say yet again that the incident needs more hard evidence before it can be verified. I'll also state that Transformer's outlook on the "massaging" of paperwork by the Sheriff, coroner, funeral director and so on is a very naive one, in spite of her apparent relationship with a LEO in an "important position". In my years with the Gov't, I saw numerous incidents where details in paperwork, including details of deaths, were "massaged" for one reason or another. Leaving out the only witness report of a human death or altering it would be a serious criminal offence for a government offical in my part of the world and I am certain that the same would apply in yours. Such a thing is not "massaging". Not sure what "massaging" of deaths you saw but I think that any purposeful lie made by a person in authority is about as low as one can go. Can you specifically state what type of lies were OFFICIALLY DOCUMENTED about deaths of human beings that you saw and why you felt that lying and breaking the law was worth it? Edited June 27, 2012 by Transformer
Guest Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 I can only speak for myself, and most of the poeple I worked with for 30 years. We would not have 'massaged' the report. My report would have included the witness statement, and perhaps a written statement from the witness if possible. The investigation probably would have been a little more intense had the witness reported that his buddy was killed by a Sasquatch, but in the end it would have probably stated that the victim was likely killed by a bear or other unknown animal. I did not work for the federal government and was never asked to alter a report in any way, shape or form to make it fit something else, or to fabricate or hide anything. I did have occassion to cross paths with several federal agents in the course of my career and none of them asked me to 'massage' a report either. But I never investigated any sasquatch related complaints. I did however repsond to many UFO complaints, and all my reports attributed the 'sightings' to unknow origin.
Guest Chefsquared Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) I just love a good debate...lol good points guys Edited June 27, 2012 by BFSleuth Political content removed
Guest Nalajr Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 I've listened to the show a couple of times now and it's very entertaining. I wish there were more shows like that one to listen to. I don't know, I guess I'm in the camp that believe that the government wouldn't hide something like a Sassy discovery. I don't see what they would gain by doing so. Finding a Sassy would be the BIGGEST story in Science of the last 100 years. I believe there are people that work in the Dept. of Interior and such that would absolutely LOVE the thought of finding a Sassy out there somewhere. Nalajr
JDL Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) From wiki: A conspiracy theory explains an event as being the result of an alleged plot by a covert group or organization or, more broadly, the idea that important political, social or economic events are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public. http://en.wikipedia....nspiracy_theory If the shoe fits. Wow, I suggest that upon occasion local officials may explain away a squatch attack as a bear attack and you escalate it as if I were alleging a "plot by a covert group or organization or, more broadly, the idea that important political, social or economic events are the products of secret plots that are largely unknown to the general public", and use this to label me a conspiracy theorist? That's like labeling me a killer of whales because I had halibut last night. You're asking me to put on some mighty big shoes there. Waiter! Could we get a little perspective for the table, please? Edited June 27, 2012 by JDL
Guest BFSleuth Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 Waiter! Could we get a little perspective for the table, please? One bottle of Perspective for you sir...
Guest Posted June 27, 2012 Posted June 27, 2012 SeemsI guess such views could represent the same animal, yet all of the various Bigfoot stories, from the wandering peaceful ape stories to the pack of aggressive monsters stories, just don't seem to jibe with one another in describing a real species. Absolutely 1000% WRONG. It jibes perfectly with the known behavior patterns of higher primates. Taking into account time, place, and circumstance plus allowing for variations in individual personalities. This is absolutely NOT in disupte. Ape situational aggression is well documented.
Guest Coonbo Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 Ok Transformer, Here's one that I believe you ought to have heard at least a little of, and that I was personally involved in: When the crew compartment of the Challenger Space Shuttle was found, we (NASA personnel involved in the accident investigation) immediately knew that the crew survived the explosion and were conscious and performing the tasks they had trained for in a crisis. However, it was MONTHS before the crew's families were ever told this information and YEARS before that info was very quietly made available to the public, if they knew to ask for it, or where to look for it. And there are some details that have never been released.
Guest MikeG Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 Like a stuck record, I just keep on saying the same thing............... Please, folks, there are plenty of other places to discuss conspiracy theories, the Space Shuttle disaster, and so on. This thread is about the story of a BF apparently killing a hunter. Let's stick to that. Thanks Mike
Guest Coonbo Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 Like a stuck record, I just keep on saying the same thing............... Please, folks, there are plenty of other places to discuss conspiracy theories, the Space Shuttle disaster, and so on. This thread is about the story of a BF apparently killing a hunter. Let's stick to that. Thanks Mike Thanks Mike. I agree - although this is the first time I've seen you say that..... And I'LL say again that until somebody finds some additional hard evidence, and contrary to my friend Carl's "hunch", and in spite of some of Mike's details matching some other historical accounts and some details being accurate descriptions of things known to happen, I STILL classify this as "Needs Further Evidence for Verification" (which is somewhat up from my initial rating of "Improbable/Unlikely"). No matter what other corroborating info we find, the whole story hinges on the supposed death of that hunter, and until we can find evidence of an unexplained or unusual death in that area, at about the right time frame, the incident remains just a good story.
indiefoot Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 Also, besides the ape vs. human camp of Bigfoot enthusiasts, we should include the docile, nice Bigfoot vs. the raging, murderous Bigfoot. I guess such views could represent the same animal, yet all of the various Bigfoot stories, from the wandering peaceful ape stories to the pack of aggressive monsters stories, just don't seem to jibe with one another in describing a real species. Kind of reminds you of the way people behave doesn't it?
Guest Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 Coonbo, it sounds like you have seen many bigfoot. Are you able to see them anytime you want, or have a pretty good chance of seeing them? Have you taken video or pictures of them? What is your goal in your research? Comparing what you have seen, and from the sounds of it, have seen up close, do you think the Patterson Bigfoot looks similar? Besides this incident, do you directly know anyone that has shot and killed a bigfoot? I really find this stuff amazing....too bad I have never seen one.
southernyahoo Posted June 28, 2012 Posted June 28, 2012 Also, besides the ape vs. human camp of Bigfoot enthusiasts, we should include the docile, nice Bigfoot vs. the raging, murderous Bigfoot. I guess such views could represent the same animal, yet all of the various Bigfoot stories, from the wandering peaceful ape stories to the pack of aggressive monsters stories, just don't seem to jibe with one another in describing a real species. Bears can be both docile and raging killers, so I'm afraid you won't make this argument stick Jerry, particularly if we are dealing with an advanced great ape co-evolved with us, and with the potential for the full range of emotional states including anger, fear, rage, frustration, vengeance, compassion , respect, reverance, humor, excitement etc. Forcing this creature into the purely instinctive "animal box" will undoubtedly,IMO cause plenty of cognitive dissonance.
Recommended Posts