Bigfoot Research – Still No Evidence, But Plenty Of Excuses To Explain Why There’S No Evidence

[Drew]

Oh. Because he wouldn't know anything about breeding populations and things like that. I get it.

[Guest DWA]

Oh. Because he wouldn't know anything about breeding populations and things like that. I get it.

Meaning...?

What relevance could that possibly have? I know I'm waiting a long time for that.

Did I not just say that - just as I predicted in the very post he tells me signifies I don't get it - he made an assumption that basically renders that highfalutin knowledge useless?

Might wanna go over to the Ketchum Report thread. Nice post there about a book you guys might want to pick up. (Or maybe you'd rather pickle in your assumptions.) This telling excerpt:

---------------------------------------------------------------

To quote something that Dr. Filler does say, most eloquently: “In questioning and rejecting scientific orthodoxy, no mass of credentials will convince a spurned scientist that he or she should give way and accept that they have spent a career believing, teaching, and publishing in error.â€

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Might want to use all that training to think, you know, once in a while about this. Unless you'd rather continue, well, not.

Edited February 8, 2013 by DWA

[Guest]

^Yes, apparently the thousands of reports are from people seeing the same 8 or 9 individuals. That makes more sense.

DWA, you might want to check out what your man Bindernagel has to say about the number of bigfoots in North America. I figured you'd have this information at your fingertips, since you're such an authority and all. . .

Edited February 8, 2013 by Saskeptic

[Guest DWA]

Um, I've read him? Your next assumption please...(reaches for envelope)...

People's opinions on sasquatch populaton vary; are based on reports, oh, and if you saw one you are crazy; and are inherently imprecise, incorporating (and yes they do have a value in science) a few assumptions, which may or may not be true.

One assumes when one considers it reasonable, and when it's necessary to move ahead. (Sometimes it isn't reasonable, nor necessary, and are we not talking about that here.) I could give you a number of reasons not to trust wildlife counts. But you probably know them all. For an animal the society has its collective head terminally screwed up about, they must be taken with a hill of rock salt.

Using that to invalidate the evidence? Scientists don't do that.

(Technicians? They do.)

Oh and I forgot to add.

Nice job on that summary of the evidence! I mean it. On the head. Even included suitable big words.

And now.

You just think that a bunch of random misapprehensions by a deluded general public generated that biological picture? One that says, to any biologist: species?

Drawing-board time.

Edited February 8, 2013 by DWA

[WSA]

Saskeptic...consider this. You've been able to come to very specific conclusions about this putative animal, from reading the encounter reports. You would not have been able to do that were they not remarkably consistent and detailed. Of course, consensus can be reached on purely mythical encounters....but I'm failing to have any come to mind, at least from the the deep, dark pre-internet days. Well, even post-internet I can't think of any equivalent collection (either in number or detail) on the subject of any other animal, can you? I'm not sure the accounts of I.B. woodpeckers has ever come up to this level, and we know at least it existed at one time.

I also think your hypothesis hangs by a thread...the presumption that no Sasquatch has ever been killed,captured or scavenged. You have to pardon me for saying, that is an extremely naiive view of how the real world operates. Humans are a cunning, secretive and (yes) lethal species. Communication about things we even WANT to share has been spotty and confused and full of errors. But, consider the compendium of historic BF encounters the late Tirademan culled from local papers, dating back to late 19th century in N.A. In them you will find suggestions that BF have been, umm, harvested from time to time. Are we so sure those remains don't exist somewhere? I'm not. I appreciate you are not inclined to give that the benefit of the doubt, but my research leads me to conclude it is well within the realm of probability.

[Drew]

You just think that a bunch of random misapprehensions by a deluded general public generated that biological picture? One that says, to any biologist: species?

Drawing-board time.

Wow. Because people retelling a story over and over means there is a new species? It often simply means: Boogie Man tales, or Folklore.

Do you think The Odyssey was a collection of anecdotal accounts of real monsters witnessed by actual humans? Or do you think the monsters were the result of a story being told for generations, warning people to avoid: Rocky islands, Rocky straits with heavy currents, and not to court a King's wife before he is considered dead?

WSA:

If I'm going to make up a Bigfoot story so I can get on Finding Bigfoot, do you think I'm going to tell Matt Moneymaker that the thing had alligator feet, and purple hair? NO! I'm going to research the sighting reports, see which attributes the investigators like, and go from there. My Bigfoot is going to sway back and forth, be 8' tall (not too tall), be dark in color, take LONG strides(not skip), and I'm going to record a fox howl, and tell him it is Bigfoot from just last night.

Edited February 8, 2013 by Drew

[Guest DWA]

Wow. Because people retelling a story over and over means there is a new species? It often simply means: Boogie Man tales, or Folklore.

Do you think The Odyssey was a collection of anecdotal accounts of real monsters witnessed by actual humans? Or do you think the monsters were the result of a story being told for generations, warning people to avoid: Rocky islands, Rocky straits with heavy currents, and not to court a King's wife before he is considered dead?

OK, Drew, we're gonna give you time to catch up here. Whoa.

The Odyssey was one story cooked up by one guy. Wow that was hard.

Did you or did you not miss my point? The average everyday American is a wildlife biologist? You are swallowing that?

OK. Dude, if you're not getting it now, you need to sit back and think about this some.

He cranks in The Odyssey, The Odyssey ferpetes, and calls check while I'm figuring out which of five pieces I'll mate with. (Get your mind out of the gutter, Drew! Chess! Focus!)

Umblllleeeble. I do wish this barrel had faster fish...

Edited February 8, 2013 by DWA

[Guest DWA]

Saskeptic...consider this. You've been able to come to very specific conclusions about this putative animal, from reading the encounter reports. You would not have been able to do that were they not remarkably consistent and detailed. Of course, consensus can be reached on purely mythical encounters....but I'm failing to have any come to mind, at least from the the deep, dark pre-internet days. Well, even post-internet I can't think of any equivalent collection (either in number or detail) on the subject of any other animal, can you? I'm not sure the accounts of I.B. woodpeckers has ever come up to this level, and we know at least it existed at one time.

Drew, here, you listen in too!

No phenomenon in the entire history of science has accumulated anywhere near this much compelling evidence - that has attracted world-class minds in their fields, almost perfect matches for evaluating the evidence on offer - and remained unproven.

And all of this evidence is being produced by random schmo deluded Americans?

Cool world, bro! I'm gonna take a pass now, though, because my take just seems, you know, more sensible.

[WSA]

Drew, I wish to meet these folks that apparently are out there cooking up these stories. They need to get an agent and submit some manuscripts to Random House, because they are really, really good. In my 6th decade here below, my take-away on the tendencies, capabilities and motivations of my fellow peeps is a much more realistic view. We just ain't that good....at anything...let alone at ginning up whole-cloth fabrications.

BTW, don't confuse the dog/pony shot that is FB with the BFRO database and f/u investigations. My opinion is they are two entirely different projects, with contrary purposes, i.e., one's aim is to make as much cash for the sponsors as quickly as possible. There seems to be a much higher level of integrity with the written reports, and the project pre-dates the whole FB frolic. Shame they couldn't stick to what they know and do best. As they say though, "it is an ill wind indeed...." The FB exposure has probably given cover to many who would otherwise have just kept their mouths shut. You see a high percentage of reports dating back to years past, some as long ago as the 1970's. Yes, memory fades with time, but not on all things. Ask someone with PTSD to relate a triggering memory of an incident from 30 years ago, and they will be watching the movie like the first time. You can bet the farm if you saw something as mind-blowing as a BF, you'd need therapy and pharmos to remove the detail from your data bank, wouldn't you think?

[Drew]

OK, Drew, we're gonna give you time to catch up here. Whoa.

The Odyssey was one story cooked up by one guy. Wow that was hard.

The genius is going to tell me that The Odyssey is not an oral epic, told orally for generations, long before anyone thought to write it down...

Do you talk incorrectly with such gusto, with regard to your Bigfoot claims as well? I thinks yes.

[Guest DWA]

Whatever, dude. Tales is tales. And evidence is evidence.

Anybody who thinks The Odyssey is a slam in this discussion is talking very incorrectly, with much gusto. While I can admit that first, I am no expert on The O (and you aren't either unless you are seriously holding back) and second, makes no nevermind in this discussion, you don't seem to be able to do anything but talk past my points and think you are winning. Show some respect, man! Your presumption tells me you could write direct and produce the documentary smash hit The Making Of The Odyssey. You know that much? Make it work for you, I say.

(In no other field can folks read so little and presume, with impunity, so much. Crypto needs to clean that house.)

Wade: Plussed. I am doing a great job as you today. I'll take tomorrow too if, you know, you got stuff going on.

That he-saw-a-goat-and-30-years-later-it's-a-bigfoot stuff is the weakest sauce out there. The International Chefs Association will let you put it in milk, it's so weak. There are people who haven't turned off a light in their houses since their sightings; people who stopped, forever, going to big-time favorite places to do big-time favorite things after their sightings; police officers and Special Forces who let the father they outweigh by a hundred pounds and could bench-press three of laugh at them when they insist no way I am out here past one hour before sunset after their sightings; people who have lost their jobs, girlfriends and peace of mind over their conviction that they saw it and the way it turned their scoftical world upside down. Yep, goats do that.

So does being absolutely sure you're right...and being wrong. Just sayin'. Don't see a bigfoot this weekend unless you're ready, I say.

Edited February 8, 2013 by DWA

[dmaker]

Whatever, dude. Tales is tales. And evidence is evidence.

Anybody who thinks The Odyssey is a slam in this discussion is talking very incorrectly, with much gusto. While I can admit that first, I am no expert on The O (and you aren't either unless you are seriously holding back) and second, makes no nevermind in this discussion, you don't seem to be able to do anything but talk past my points and think you are winning. Show some respect, man!

(In no other field can folks read so little and presume, with impunity, so much.)

Wade: Plussed. I am doing a great job as you today. I'll take tomorrow too if, you know, you got stuff going on.

That he-saw-a-goat-and-30-years-later-it's-a-bigfoot stuff is the weakest sauce out there. The International Chefs Association will let you put it in milk, it's so weak. There are people who haven't turned off a light in their houses since their sightings; people who stopped, forever, going to big-time favorite places to do big-time favorite things after their sightings; people who have lost their jobs, girlfriends and peace of mind over their conviction that they saw it and the way it turned their scoftical world upside down. Yep, goats do that.

You know, respectfully speaking, you haven't exactly read all that much either. Simply because there really isn't all that much to read. This "field" as you call it has required reading of a handful of books by a small number of folks, some academics, some not, and an online eye witness reports database. Not a lot of required reading really when you compare it to other fields. Yet this does not stop you in anyway from talking from a perceived position of higher authority and presume with impunity. And The O as you put it does have some relevance, or at least it must have if we allow for the constant throwing in our face of North American native folklore and mythology. Both are great examples of oral tradition that include the fantastic. And while I may not be an "expert", I do have an undergraduate degree in Classical Civilizations.

[Guest DWA]

You know, respectfully speaking, you haven't exactly read all that much either. Simply because there really isn't all that much to read. This "field" as you call it has required reading of a handful of books by a small number of folks, some academics, some not, and an online eye witness reports database. Not a lot of required reading really when you compare it to other fields. Yet this does not stop you in anyway from talking from a perceived position of higher authority and presume with impunity. And The O as you put it does have some relevance, or at least it must have if we allow for the constant throwing in our face of North American native folklore and mythology. Both are great examples of oral tradition that include the fantastic. And while I may not be an "expert", I do have an undergraduate degree in Classical Civilizations.

Dude! Read up. (If you don't think there's plenty my point just got made.)

The Odyssey has no standing here, whatever, and stop insulting people different from you. There is a very clear difference, and if you don't see it....let's just say you have an imperfect understanding of how much you have to read. Disingenuous, at best. My guess is, worse, by a lot. If it's so little reading, DO IT.

Then come back here so I can show you like I am showing Saskeptic that you aren't reading for comprehension. Wink.

Edited February 8, 2013 by DWA

[dmaker]

How did I insult you exactly?

[Guest DWA]

Native Americans, dude, not me.

"Quaint native legends" don't get vouched for as literal fact by thousands of non-Natives. If you think that happens...where were you when Coyote and Raven Created The World...?