Operation Persistence

[Sunflower]

OMG, skeeters are like Jersey Bombers, every year they got bigger and badder. Thanks for reminding me......

[Guest]

Hahaha, in Maine mosquitoes are the state bird (just kidding). Hate to see any bigger!!!

[clubbedfoot]

Speaking of mosquitoes....it'd be pretty cool to find some in the woods that'd been feeding on some squatch....

call me crazy, but what else has worked thus far....

Edited April 11, 2013 by clubbedfoot

[Guest]

scorpions, big snakes, tarantulas, fiddleback spiders, ticks galore, leeches, red bugs (otherwise known as chiggers) and a lot more..........Be sure to check your shoes for the nasty black widow spider, they love to hide in truck visors as well and drop in your lap. And it's just a joy swimming in the rivers with cottonmouths and water mocassins for company...

That sounds alot like South Central Texas, nasty creepy crawlies everywhere. Around Helotes and Boerne in the Summer you can barely pick up a rock without finding a Scorpion under it. When I ran a masonry yard in Boerne we used to put Scorpions and Tarantulas in big coffee cans and bet on the outcome. Black Widows? I used to have to fog my storage two or three times per year because of them. They love building nests where the floor and walls meet. I haven't had too much problem with chiggers and ticks, but I go to extreme measures to protect myself from those. Where I used to race Hare Scrambles down outside Floresville, thousands of Spiny Orb-Weaver spiders would spin webs across the trails. I cant count the times I've taken my helmet off and found them inside. They are harmless (to my knowledge) but they get pretty big and look absolutely horrific.

Water Moccasins / Cottonmouth = Same snake, regional slang. My family farms rice in South Louisiana, so quite familiar with those as well. They are the only snake I have encountered that will actually chase you for some distance if they are feeling particularly aggro.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Irish73

[norseman]

we have tons of ticks in the spring. but thank goodness no chiggers!

[the parkie]

Drew,

I think you would find Oklahoma very, very challenging. Come in the summer when scorpions, big snakes, tarantulas, fiddleback spiders, ticks galore, leeches, red bugs (otherwise known as chiggers) and a lot more that I have surely forgotten will make your trip an absolute blast!!!!!

Trees grow into the ground, that means there is no forrest floor like in the PNW. Vines don't break when you walk through them, they trap you so you have to back up and unwind the crap from your legs. Be sure to check your shoes for the nasty black widow spider, they love to hide in truck visors as well and drop in your lap. And it's just a joy swimming in the rivers with cottonmouths and water mocassins for company.

Yes, it's a wonderland and defintely a good reason why the hairy people hang out there. Have a nice trip.

BTW, I'm speaking from experience lol.

Bipto is not exaggerating when he describes the area and you should pay attention.

I think one of the main reasons why people instantly dismiss the possibility of bigfoot being in the U.S., is an unappreciation of the kind of vast, untamed wildernesses that exist there. I am in the UK and whenever I have touched on the subject of bigfoot with others over the years, their opinion is often shaped by their perception that the U.S. is obviously part of the new, modern, western world and therefore such a thing could not exist there. People are much more open to the possibility of the yeti in the himalayas for example, as the general perception of that part of the world is one of an old world, mountainous, almost mystical wilderness where anything might still be possible. I am sure this perception is also true in other areas of North America but I would imagine it is much exaggerated in the UK. This perception by others might be something that those of you that live in or near these wildernesses, and who are obviously aware of the nature of the terrain and challenging conditions, may not appreciate to it's full extent. If people somehow had a better understanding of what these areas are really like to be in on a daily basis then I think attitudes may generally soften. Google Earth may possibly also perpetuate this perception.

I didn't know that trees grew into the ground - do you have any more info so that I could go away and educate myself further?

[Martin]

........................When I ran a masonry yard in Boerne .................

Trying to keep on topic...... I wonder if there are any hiking trails through the hilly and bug infested terrain that go from Bourne to Rudy's BBQ on I-10.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Martin

[Drew]

We all know how wild and untamed these states are.

They are really nasty with bugs and bad foliage.

But remember before cars, and insect repellent, and paved roads, when the loggers and settlers in these states wiped out nearly every animal over 100 pounds?

In Michigan they killed the bears, wolves, cougar, deer, elk and moose.

In Oklahoma they killed all the large animals, except for 150 deer.

No cell phones, no cars, no precision scopes on their rifles, no insect repellent, and they cleared the wilderness.

Your verbal terra-forming of the impenetrable jungle of Oklahoma, while it sounds necessary in order to rationalize a Giant Hairy Wood Ape living there, and may fly with others who think such a creature resides there, doesn't fly with people who have no reason to inflate the difficulties inherent with many different terrains in the United States.

........................When I ran a masonry yard in Boerne .................

Trying to keep on topic...... I wonder if there are any hiking trails through the hilly and bug infested terrain that go from Bourne to Rudy's BBQ on I-10.

Boerne is on I-10

[Guest]

It probably doesn't fly with people that spend zero time in the woods either and have no understanding of it. People that live in an urban area of let's say Detroit have little knowledge of the density of navigating a wilderness area.

Edited April 11, 2013 by BipedalCurious

[WSA]

I can tell you at least one species that was supposedly exterminated (E. Puma) and which was not. We substantially reduced whole ecosystems and fauna populations, no doubt. The idea that we laid waste to the lower 48 from sea to sea is not only hperbolic, it draws a big "so what" from me on this topic.

I shoud add, many areas which are no longer experiencing Indian management by fire are appreciably MORE wild than before European settlement.

Edited April 11, 2013 by WSA

[norseman]

We all know how wild and untamed these states are.

They are really nasty with bugs and bad foliage.

But remember before cars, and insect repellent, and paved roads, when the loggers and settlers in these states wiped out nearly every animal over 100 pounds?

In Michigan they killed the bears, wolves, cougar, deer, elk and moose.

In Oklahoma they killed all the large animals, except for 150 deer.

No cell phones, no cars, no precision scopes on their rifles, no insect repellent, and they cleared the wilderness.

Your verbal terra-forming of the impenetrable jungle of Oklahoma, while it sounds necessary in order to rationalize a Giant Hairy Wood Ape living there, and may fly with others who think such a creature resides there, doesn't fly with people who have no reason to inflate the difficulties inherent with many different terrains in the United States.

maybe its just like the coyote or other species who have expanded their range in the aftermath of the pioneer die out? something that is filling a niche now because the competition was wiped out.

just a thought.

[Guest]

Impossible. Every animal over 150 pounds has been eradicated. Every. Single. One.

Drew, this is another logicless argument we've already cycled through. Next, please.

*yawn*

[1980squatch]

^^^ I vote for no next...

[WSA]

We all know how wild and untamed these states are.

They are really nasty with bugs and bad foliage.

But remember before cars, and insect repellent, and paved roads, when the loggers and settlers in these states wiped out nearly every animal over 100 pounds?

In Michigan they killed the bears, wolves, cougar, deer, elk and moose.

In Oklahoma they killed all the large animals, except for 150 deer.

No cell phones, no cars, no precision scopes on their rifles, no insect repellent, and they cleared the wilderness.

Your verbal terra-forming of the impenetrable jungle of Oklahoma, while it sounds necessary in order to rationalize a Giant Hairy Wood Ape living there, and may fly with others who think such a creature resides there, doesn't fly with people who have no reason to inflate the difficulties inherent with many different terrains in the United States.

maybe its just like the coyote or other species who have expanded their range in the aftermath of the pioneer die out? something that is filling a niche now because the competition was wiped out.

just a thought.

That has been my working hypothesis as well. All animal populations are dynamic, and opportunistic, and all those exposed to natural selection in its most brutal form (I except humans from that, at present) are going to swing up or down pretty dramatically, depending. Who knows, we may all just be currently experiencing a peak of Sasquatch populations t/o the N.A. habitat? It would coincide with the human demographic shift to more urban areas, and extensive reforestation. Drew's hypothesis may actually have a glint of truth in it, in that a large apex predator like the putative Sasquatch would have experienced a pretty significant degradation of habitat in the mid-19th to mid-20th centuries. Many also predict if the history of population rise and fall of this animal is ever written, it will track very closely the corresponding fluctuations (both in range and population) of the deer it quite possibly uses as its primary food source, especially whitetail populations in the Eastern U.S. Nobody needs to be reminded of how the deer populations in the U.S. are doing right now, I'm sure.

Another limiting factor to the population of putative Sasquatches has to be communicable pathogens. It would be extraordinary if they existed on the N.A. continent in 1492, but did not take a significant wallop from those. How long to recover from that? Ask the Mandans.

[Drew]

Impossible. Every animal over 150 pounds has been eradicated. Every. Single. One.

Drew, this is another logicless argument we've already cycled through. Next, please.

*yawn*

100 lbs.

Perhaps you are ignorant of the devastating effect humans have had on the large fauna of the United States. Would you say that Wood Apes were immune to the impact of human expansion and the destruction of habitat that went along with it?

Eastern Cougar http://www.natureserve.org/explorer/servlet/NatureServe?sourceTemplate=tabular_report.wmt&loadTemplate=species_RptComprehensive.wmt&selectedReport=RptComprehensive.wmt&summaryView=tabular_report.wmt&elKey=101637&paging=home&save=true&startIndex=1&nextStartIndex=1&reset=false&offPageSelectedElKey=101637&offPageSelectedElType=species&offPageYesNo=true&post_processes=&radiobutton=radiobutton&selectedIndexes=101637&selectedIndexes=100723&selectedIndexes=101183&selectedIndexes=103622&selectedIndexes=777431&selectedIndexes=105973&selectedIndexes=103451&selectedIndexes=104968&selectedIndexes=106132

Native to the eastern United States and southeastern Canada; now nearly or actually extinct due to habitat loss, killing by humans, and former scarcity of prey; remnant populations may persist in southeastern Canada and the adjacent U.S., but it is unknown whether reported sightings pertain to indigenous populations of this subspecies.

American Bison

http://www.natureserve.org/explorer/servlet/NatureServe?sourceTemplate=tabular_report.wmt&loadTemplate=species_RptComprehensive.wmt&selectedReport=RptComprehensive.wmt&summaryView=tabular_report.wmt&elKey=101908&paging=home&save=true&startIndex=1&nextStartIndex=1&reset=false&offPageSelectedElKey=113548&offPageSelectedElType=species&offPageYesNo=true&post_processes=&radiobutton=radiobutton&selectedIndexes=113548&selectedIndexes=102363&selectedIndexes=105689&selectedIndexes=101908&selectedIndexes=100513&selectedIndexes=104959

Formerly widespread in North America from Alaska and western Canada across U.S. into northern Mexico. Currently found in isolated units throughout and external to historical range.

Elk

http://www.natureserve.org/explorer/servlet/NatureServe?sourceTemplate=tabular_report.wmt&loadTemplate=species_RptComprehensive.wmt&selectedReport=RptComprehensive.wmt&summaryView=tabular_report.wmt&elKey=102257&paging=home&save=true&startIndex=1&nextStartIndex=1&reset=false&offPageSelectedElKey=116252&offPageSelectedElType=species&offPageYesNo=true&post_processes=&radiobutton=radiobutton&selectedIndexes=116252&selectedIndexes=115760&selectedIndexes=117305&selectedIndexes=102257&selectedIndexes=103499&selectedIndexes=103199&selectedIndexes=104511&selectedIndexes=101331&selectedIndexes=151616&selectedIndexes=147334

Formerly widespread in North America, now mostly restricted to the West, with small reintroduced populations elsewhere.

Grey Wolf

http://www.natureserve.org/explorer/servlet/NatureServe?sourceTemplate=tabular_report.wmt&loadTemplate=species_RptComprehensive.wmt&selectedReport=RptComprehensive.wmt&summaryView=tabular_report.wmt&elKey=105212&paging=home&save=true&startIndex=1&nextStartIndex=1&reset=false&offPageSelectedElKey=105212&offPageSelectedElType=species&offPageYesNo=true&post_processes=&radiobutton=radiobutton&selectedIndexes=105212&selectedIndexes=741211&selectedIndexes=741244&selectedIndexes=741246

Exterminated from large areas through trapping, shooting, poisoning, and reduction in prey populations (ungulate herds). Threatened by direct human-caused mortality and possibly habitat loss. Landscape change resulting from development may interfere with restoration in some areas

Brown Bear

http://www.natureserve.org/explorer/servlet/NatureServe?sourceTemplate=tabular_report.wmt&loadTemplate=species_RptComprehensive.wmt&selectedReport=RptComprehensive.wmt&summaryView=tabular_report.wmt&elKey=102187&paging=home&save=true&startIndex=1&nextStartIndex=1&reset=false&offPageSelectedElKey=102187&offPageSelectedElType=species&offPageYesNo=true&post_processes=&radiobutton=radiobutton&selectedIndexes=102187&selectedIndexes=874171&selectedIndexes=874183

Has disappeared over much of Holarctic range, and continues to decline in the face of habitat alienation, alteration, and loss, as well as increased human access to wilderness; low reproductive rate limits recovery rate; stable populations occur in some large wilderness areas; protection and management are necessary for long-term survival

Black Bear http://www.natureserve.org/explorer/servlet/NatureServe?sourceTemplate=tabular_report.wmt&loadTemplate=species_RptComprehensive.wmt&selectedReport=RptComprehensive.wmt&summaryView=tabular_report.wmt&elKey=100661&paging=home&save=true&startIndex=1&nextStartIndex=1&reset=false&offPageSelectedElKey=824916&offPageSelectedElType=species&offPageYesNo=true&post_processes=&radiobutton=radiobutton&selectedIndexes=824916&selectedIndexes=100661&selectedIndexes=105261&selectedIndexes=103279&selectedIndexes=105535&selectedIndexes=101746&selectedIndexes=103496&selectedIndexes=102953

Black bears exist throughout most of North America north of central Mexico, except the desert region of the southwestern United States, from north-central Alaska across boreal Canada to Labrador and Newfoundland, and south to central California, northern Nevada, northern Nayarit and southern Tamaulipas (Mexico), and Florida (Wozencraft, in Wilson and Reeder 1993). However, the species has been eliminated from most of the Midwest by intensive agriculture and human settlement. Now it occurs primarily in remaining large forested tracts.

Deer http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/hunting/whitetimeline.htm

1900 – Market/subsistence hunting and unregulated harvest eliminate nearly all deer from the state.

The idea that Wood Apes were driven out of Oklahoma, and then came back afterward does not fly with me. I would put their diet, size, and reproduction rates similar to Brown Bears. The idea that an animal the size of a Brown Bear could just head on back to it's former range in Oklahoma, in the late 1900's is silly.