Operation Persistence

[Guest]

Perhaps you are ignorant of the devastating effect humans have had on the large fauna of the United States. Would you say that Wood Apes were immune to the impact of human expansion and the destruction of habitat that went along with it?

Perhaps not. Perhaps that's why I've said repeatedly that, as a conservation organization and based on the impact man has had on all large mammal populations in this country, we feel a great imperative to establish the species as quickly as possible. We do not know how wood ape populations have been impacted, but we need to.

And perhaps we've already had this conversation. Please, find a new song to play.

The idea that Wood Apes were driven out of Oklahoma, and then came back afterward does not fly with me.

Oh, really? Some guy on the internet has an opinion he pulled from an orifice that contradicts my own personal experience? Whatever shall I do.

Also, just curious, could you share when us your bonafides with regard to large animal migration patterns in North America? I think that's important since you'd decreed it "not flying" with you that anything like a Wood Ape could have survived or come back to the region. You must have some kind of professional experience with this or academic accomplishments in the field. Right?

[Drew]

I'm not talking about people killing a couple of populations of these animals in the late 1800's early 1900's, I'm talking about total decimation, no where for the animals to go, logging crews killing every animal they saw, and if there was a pocket of woods left, they went in there and cleaned out the food. They needed to eat.

From New York to Texas, Michigan to Georgia, these creatures were killed, trapped, poisoned, and left with no where to live.

Of course, you need to be able to explain how a 500 lb Wood ape could survive, so you will come up with some excuses, and make the terrain seem very difficult, but the FACTS are, that there would have been no place for these animals to go, and while the loggers and hunters were killing EVERY SINGLE OTHER large animal, they didn't get one Wood Ape, not a scrap of one.

[norseman]

how do you know that drew? i can think of many pioneer confontation stories....... i realize one never made it to the smithsonian to be stuffed back then. but as far as shooting at them? yah they supposedly did that.

[Guest]

...but the FACTS are, that there would have been no place for these animals to go, and while the loggers and hunters were killing EVERY SINGLE OTHER large animal, they didn't get one Wood Ape, not a scrap of one.

Your vision of the world is that, at one point, every tree and sizable bush from the east coast to the Rockies was cut down, leaving nothing but a flat expanse of totally denuded landscape? And every animal larger than a ground hog was caught, shot, or otherwise roasted over a spit?

I'm sorry, where that little eye-rolling smily?

Still waiting on this.

...could you share when us your bonafides with regard to large animal migration patterns in North America?

i can think of many pioneer confontation stories....

Yes, of course, but none of those encounter reports (which go back for hundreds of years) count any more for Drew than one from last week. Evidence of wood apes being around in settler times only counts when Drew decides it does.

Edited April 11, 2013 by bipto

[norseman]

@bipto

i understand what drew is saying i do. its not an easy thing to swallow. but until he can tell me whats walking around in deep snow making gigantic foot prints currently? what happened back then is moot. im open minded...... whats the hypothesis?

[Drew]

Large animal migration patterns?

Caribou? Elk? Bison? what are you talking about?

Do you know what a migration is? Do I think there is a seasonal migration of Wood Apes through the Eastern corridor of Oklahoma? No.

how do you know that drew? i can think of many pioneer confontation stories....... i realize one never made it to the smithsonian to be stuffed back then. but as far as shooting at them? yah they supposedly did that.

How do I know that every animal was wiped out in Oklahoma? All those links above, have a map, all the states on those maps that are blue, do not have that animal anymore.

Here is the bison.

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[Cotter]

Drew - is it your understanding the NO animals vacated?

That they were all surrounded and exterminated?

[Guest]

Maybe both. Or neither. Whichever is the opposite of what you're saying.

[Guest]

How do I know that every animal was wiped out in Oklahoma? All those links above, have a map, all the states on those maps that are blue, do not have that animal anymore.

Here is the bison. [ ... image removed ... ]

What point are you trying make here? In nearly half of those "blue states" bison were not present (as least the "prairie" bison that we normally think of as "bison") in historic and near pre-historic times. (There were "forest" bison present in some of these places, but that was in the mid-late Pleistocene, if I recall correctly. And was a totally different animal...)

The "extinction" of bison was strictly due to overhunting in the late 1800's, not any sort of reduction in habitat; if anything, the clear-cut logging opened up habitat for them. Only the fencing of the open range would have affected bison, and not a whole lot. I think that they could deal with fencing as long-horned cattle did...

All this sounds like typical environmental-scare talking points...

[Drew]

Unless I read something that says The animals were afraid of their friends getting killed and their forests being destroyed, so they decided to move over to the next state, where that wasn't happening. Animal populations don't just leave their area because it is inhospitable, like the Lorax movie.

The American Bison ranged from New York to Georgia, and from Mexico to Alaska.

You can find the range map of the bison here, scroll down to HUNTING

http://en.wikipedia..../American_bison

Edited April 11, 2013 by Drew

[norseman]

@drew

i cannot see those maps with my iphone. but what i was saying was how do you know that they were not effected by settlers?

[Guest]

Why did they have to move? I mean, seriously, do you really think there was a point in time in which there was zero forest anywhere in the region? I don't think they had to leave.

All of which is sorta beside the point because they are there now.

[Drew]

All of which is sorta beside the point because they are there now.

They'd better be there, considering how you are all-in on them being there.

[Guest]

Luckily, we've seen them. So, it's all good.

[Sunflower]

They are here.....