Operation Persistence

[Drew]

Luckily, we've seen them. So, it's all good.

Oh? Why didn't you say so? Gosh I feel like a jerk now.

[Guest]

I want to know about how all the coconuts migrated from the continental US to Hawaii.

[okieman]

I want to know about how all the coconuts migrated from the continental US to Hawaii.

Swallows carried them. African I think. Or was it European....

[Guest]

Luckily, we've seen them. So, it's all good.

Oh? Why didn't you say so? Gosh I feel like a jerk now.

Now?

[Guest]

Animal populations are computer based estimates these days based on radio/gps collar tracking and aerial surveys (some on site surveys) of known winter ranges, and these are of traceable species such as deer and elk. They are the best estimates ever available and are just estimates. Animals such as black bears and cougars are shots in the dark, shots made by wildlife biologists, but shots in the dark they are.

To think that reports of the decimation of fauna in the 1800s are some how more reliable is nonsense.

Obviously reports of the over hunting of an open range animal such as the american Bison can be substantiated, and the tactics to mass kill waterfowl for market are well documented. But to factually state that a large area was cleansed of animals by loggers,farmers, market hunters and evil pioneers based on the science of the time is no better than believing any or every bigfoot first hand account. gp

[Guest]

Unless I read something that says The animals were afraid of their friends getting killed and their forests being destroyed, so they decided to move over to the next state, where that wasn't happening. Animal populations don't just leave their area because it is inhospitable, like the Lorax movie.

The American Bison ranged from New York to Georgia, and from Mexico to Alaska.

You can find the range map of the bison here, scroll down to HUNTING

http://en.wikipedia..../American_bison

Perhaps the answer is so simple....we miss it?

They aren't JUST animals? Maybe we can't call them humans, but they definately aren't just animals.

[Guest]

They aren't JUST animals? Maybe we can't call them humans, but they definately aren't just animals.

And my personal opinion is that they ARE in that in-between catagory. They are either advanced great apes or primitive feral hominins. I think it feels so weird because we don't have anything else to compare them to that are their equal - apes aren't intelligent enough and humans are, well, us, which they certainly are not. Are they sentient? Do they know that they themselves exist and are going to die someday? We can say there are intelligent animals, like dogs, dolphins, elephants and find similarities - but bigfoot is different.

Maybe that's why they are capable of reasoning things out (like leaving an area due to over-hunting) and evading capture. We just have nothing reasonably similar to compare them to.

Edited April 14, 2013 by madison5716

[norseman]

Animal populations are computer based estimates these days based on radio/gps collar tracking and aerial surveys (some on site surveys) of known winter ranges, and these are of traceable species such as deer and elk. They are the best estimates ever available and are just estimates. Animals such as black bears and cougars are shots in the dark, shots made by wildlife biologists, but shots in the dark they are.

To think that reports of the decimation of fauna in the 1800s are some how more reliable is nonsense.

Obviously reports of the over hunting of an open range animal such as the american Bison can be substantiated, and the tactics to mass kill waterfowl for market are well documented. But to factually state that a large area was cleansed of animals by loggers,farmers, market hunters and evil pioneers based on the science of the time is no better than believing any or every bigfoot first hand account. gp

Ummmm I'm not sure I'm following you here.

As a hunter I very much agree that biologists do not have all the facts on true statistical data concerning game species numbers. And sometimes it's quite laughable.

But take California for example, the Grizzly bear is on the state flag. They had Grizzly bear..........and yet now there are no Grizzly bear. That simple fact pretty well substantiates that white settlers coming to California was not healthy for the California Grizzly. And that is why it's EXTINCT.........as a subspecies.

You simply cannot take bad biologist's statistical data of Cougars in Colorado and then somehow equate that to what happened to Grizzly bear in California over one hundred years ago. We know what happened there......then. And we know that they no longer exist now.

And Delta Zu makes a point, while I do not subscribe to Squatch being human, they certainly are smarter than the average bear........no pun intended:)

[Guest Cervelo]

^^^^^

What he said

http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/wildlife/elk/management-plan/

These guys numbered in the billions....

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_Pigeon

Edited April 14, 2013 by Cervelo

[Guest]

Norseman- Actually about the California Golden Bear, which is believed to be a Grizzly Bear, has been seen but without photos 5 or 6 times in the last 10 years in the Northern Tahoe Forest. Saw two reports on TV in that time span. However the authorities have no confirmation. Supposedly, the skull(head) of a grizz looks a bit differant than the black bear. Just reports however nothing photographed.

[norseman]

Norseman- Actually about the California Golden Bear, which is believed to be a Grizzly Bear, has been seen but without photos 5 or 6 times in the last 10 years in the Northern Tahoe Forest. Saw two reports on TV in that time span. However the authorities have no confirmation. Supposedly, the skull(head) of a grizz looks a bit differant than the black bear. Just reports however nothing photographed.

it does, a griz has more of a dished appearance. but regardless of whether its a cinnamon phase black bear or a wandering grizzly bear it most certainly is not a surviving remnant of california griz.

[Drew]

Unless I read something that says The animals were afraid of their friends getting killed and their forests being destroyed, so they decided to move over to the next state, where that wasn't happening. Animal populations don't just leave their area because it is inhospitable, like the Lorax movie.

The American Bison ranged from New York to Georgia, and from Mexico to Alaska.

You can find the range map of the bison here, scroll down to HUNTING

http://en.wikipedia..../American_bison

Perhaps the answer is so simple....we miss it?

They aren't JUST animals? Maybe we can't call them humans, but they definately aren't just animals.

I would tend to agree with DZ on this.

Our options are the following:

A. Bigfoot is just a regular animal, that has a propensity to evade human classification, despite technological advances, and complete settlement of places that Bigfoot is alleged to exist.

B. Bigfoot is not a regular animal, it must have either supernatural, or alien abilities which allow it to remain unclassified for 4-5 centuries in North America.

C. The human mind is fallible, either the mind has a propensity to see things that arent there, or to make up things that should be there, or in some cases, the mind causes people to lie about a creature in order to rationalize the creature's existence. In other words Pious Fraud is a fabrication of the human mind.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Drew

[Guest]

Bigfoot is just a regular animal, that has a propensity to evade human classification, despite technological advances, and complete settlement of places that Bigfoot is alleged to exist.

You continue to demonstrate an embarrassing lack of understanding regarding the wild places of North America.

[Drew]

Bigfoot is just a regular animal, that has a propensity to evade human classification, despite technological advances, and complete settlement of places that Bigfoot is alleged to exist.

You continue to demonstrate an embarrassing lack of understanding regarding the wild places of North America.

No. I am a Realist. You can't claim that a 600 lb animal remains unclassified in North America. This shows your unwillingness to accept the basic fact North America, despite your desire to have a wild place where ape-men can exist, cannot hold such a creature, in the places where it is reported, and have it remain unclassified.

A Romanticist can claim such things, a Realist cannot.

[Guest]

Wait...wait...I'm having deja vu. It's like I've lived this conversation already...

Really, though. Admit it. You've never been more than a 100 feet off the road at any point in your life, have you?