Operation Persistence

[dmaker]

A WHOLE lot about anything besides Neanderthals? Not knocking your comment WSA, just trying to figure out if you were implying some explanation for Bigfoot related mysteries.

[Cotter]

I took away from it that neanderthal's had large eyes and could see very well in the dark. Something that BF is supposed to be able to do. Showing that upright walking homonids could be equipped with much better night vision than humans.

The rest of that article seemed a bit speculated.

Edit - spelling, almost reported my own post there too.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Cotter

[Guest]

I took away from it that neanderthal's had large eyes and could see very well in the dark. Something that BF is supposed to be able to do. Showing that upright walking homonids could be equipped with much better night vision than humans.

The rest of that article seemed a bit speculated.

Edit - spelling, almost reported my own post there too.

Could another possibility be that the Neanderthal bred with other human like species and became absorbed within these various other species? Also, like us modern humans, we know interbreeding does not maintain survival of a pure species. So consequently, could the Neanderthal of had a hard time finding mates from distant locations? So in conclusion, I am left with the theory, only the strongest and smartest survive to this day...

As an added note, pretaining to a smarter species, I feel a case can be made as per B.F.

Their top retaliation for survial with us humans is no retaliation with us humans...

[Guest]

So in conclusion, I am left with the theory, only the strongest and smartest survive to this day...

Are you saying that wood apes are Neanderthals? If so, please explain how they grew to massive proportions, sprouted thick hair all over their bodies, apparently developed a mid-tarsal break in their foot, and lost all vestiges of culture. Seems like a long way around to get from "Neandertal had big eyes and could see well in the dark as bigfoot apparently have and do" to "bigfoot are Neanderthals."

But perhaps I misunderstand your point.

[Guest Cervelo]

^^^^

Since when was all that proven to be true....or perhaps I misunderstood your point

Edited April 20, 2013 by Cervelo

[Guest]

Right, they might be small and hairless. I mean, we don't have any proof they're not.

[Guest Cervelo]

No proof of anything just an abundance of conjecture and pontification.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Cervelo

[Guest]

So in conclusion, I am left with the theory, only the strongest and smartest survive to this day...

Are you saying that wood apes are Neanderthals? If so, please explain how they grew to massive proportions, sprouted thick hair all over their bodies, apparently developed a mid-tarsal break in their foot, and lost all vestiges of culture. Seems like a long way around to get from "Neandertal had big eyes and could see well in the dark as bigfoot apparently have and do" to "bigfoot are Neanderthals."

But perhaps I misunderstand your point.

I just realized there was more than one way to take my post. Let me clarify. I was also theorizing the eventual extinction of the Neanderthals as a species besides what WSA was speculating on in relation to the website article he posted,

"Neanderthals Went Extinct Because Of Their Large Eyes"

I too think the wood apes are a seperate species. I also feel there are similar species such as the average height of 8 ft for sasquatches from the temperate rain forest of the pacific, (Raincoast Sasquatch book) or the rather larger species of northern Alberta that have been reputed to be up to 10 ft+. (all per eye wittness sighting of course:) As you may know, that may have to do with the climate.

Cold climate ='s larger body mass for retention of heat. Whereas moderate climate ='s less body mass needed for heat sustainability.

Hey Bipto, do you feel that the wood ape may behave and look somewhat more apelike than say their bigfoot counterparts further west because they have been somewhat isolated from other groups as far as breeding goes? Lets say, from their native american type featured counterparts from the California region? (Tribal Bigfoot book) I am trying to use a similar analogy as the different looking kinds of wolves depending on geographic location. If we use the animal theory we know the same species may look different although do they necessary ACT different as far as intelligence and instincts ? What my point is. I think sasquatches from different regions may look different. I think they basically ACT the same wether they live in Oaklahoma or California. Assuming they don't all choose to migrate.

[salubrious]

Hi Bipto, I have a question- if you have a plan for this just say so; I don't need to know the plan.

Let's say that the TBRC is successful in obtaining a body, but it goes missing after attempts to go public (there are conspiracy theories that the gov't knows about BF but wants to keep it hushed). Do you have a plan for that??

[Guest]

We have some things planned out, but are also aware that we can't plan for every contingency and will have to be flexible when the time comes. Short version is, we will have multiple samples from the specimen safely secured and the specimen itself well documented by qualified individuals from outside our group and the bigfoot community prior to making any public announcements.

[WSA]

dmaker....some accounting needs to be made for the (apparent) lack of technology use by this animal. Hypothetical answers to that might just be found in this research. An animal that is consistently described as having almost preternatural visual acuity, to the point of seeming telepathic or supernatural, might (apparently) have made an evolutionary trade-off in that bargain. Might have had to. Natural selection seems to comport roughly with the limitations of aircraft design: You want it strong, cheap and lightweight? Pick two.

My personal w.a.g. is that if this animal is ever brought into the scientific fold, the post-mortem will reveal an optic nerve the size of a hawser and a lateral geniculate nucleus to match. The retinal capabilities I can't even begin to guess at.

You can accomplish a lot as a species if you pair hyper visual acuity with speed and strength. What you give up to get that might be explained by this research.

Edited April 22, 2013 by WSA

[dmaker]

I understand your point WSA. What I find odd about the lack of tools usage is that if they are as close to humans as some report, or even if just big ole Monkeys ( apes of course), then I would expect to see tool usage to allow for survival in the coldest of climates. Barring that, I would expect them to freeze to death, not thrive. While they may have made an evolutionary trade off for great vision vs the intelligence required to develop tools to help fashion clothing and built better shelters and possibly even fire, that would only mean to me that they had great vision whilst sitting in the snow freezing to death. Does not seem like a decent trade to me.

[dmaker]

^^^ Rereading my post now I noticed that I was not as clear as I could be in the second sentence. What I meant to say was that I would expect both near human and ape species to have challenges surviving in extreme cold. NOT that I would expect evidence of tool usage in apes.

[WSA]

Not to get too off-topic for the thread, but...

Not every animal that lives in inhospitable climates uses tools, obviously. Not every animal who NEEDS tools has the ability to fashion them...true as well.

My intent behind posting the link to this thread is to explore what adaptations Bipto and his teams might be up against. I think a lot is made of WA attributes (and since I am Bipto's guest here on this thread, I'll use his organization's preferred handle for them) that approach the extraordinary, nigh-on supernatural. What seems so might be explained more conventionally by superior eyesight. The visual acuity of some animals is just beyond our feeble abilities to imagine, so we reach for something else to explain it. An animal that can see better in the dark (apparently) than you can in daylight is tough to imagine, I'll grant you that, but it is hardly unprecedented in nature. So, this research tells me to start thinking about what the Wood Ape species might have traded for this adaptation of super visual acuity. Or, as the old bumper sticker used to say: "Gas, A** or Grass. Nobody rides for free."

As you also know, I'm a student of the sighting report database. So many of those describe an animal just looking, always observing, curious to just see what the heck we might be up to. The reports suggest their peripheral field of vision is also huge. They seem to have eyes in the back of their head, and who knows how far that field wraps around? Adapted for daylight and night vision? Whoa. Think of the size of the hard drive that requires, huh? Doubt there is much space left over for anything else, especially if that adaptation gets you your supper more often than not. From what I can tell, it does.

[dmaker]

Again, I completely understand the point you are making and I tend to agree with you insofar as IF such a thing as a WA exists, then who knows what sort of ( still within the realm of plausibility of course) adaptations or evolving traits it might display that have helped it to survive.

Your argument, though, seems to throw some support to the idea of multiple species of WA. Some have adaptations that work well in certain climates, while others have different ones. I am skeptical of the idea of better eye sight winning out over higher intelligence in an animal that must survive in extremely cold and inhospitable conditions. It would seem to me that the intelligence required to better use the environment to help fight the cold would have been more cranium space worthy than enhanced eye sight. At least in colder climes.

So that leaves us with multiple species. The problem with that, though, is that it stretched the credibility of the idea of Bigfoot. It's fairly ridiculous to think there are multiple species of Bigfoot in every corner of the globe and science has missed them all. That is absurd. It's also a stretch (IMO) that there is a super species of Bigfoot that has adaptations that allow to live in any climate and any conditions that people want to conjure up.