Guest Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 Read a Bfro post from my area and a woman saw whitetail does high in trees. Can a black bear carry a full size doe up a tree???
Guest COGrizzly Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 They can, but that would be incredibly rare. Mountain Lions, however, do.
Guest thermalman Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 Agreed. Very similar to leopards.
Guest BFSleuth Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 Cougars are known to carry deer carcasses into trees, as noted in the NPS note from the Rocky Mountain Park.
Guest UPs Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 I have heard this often repeated that cougar will cache deer in a tree, but as in the link above, I have seen no real documentation of this or observation of cougar actually doing this. What I have read is that a deer is found up in a tree and then it is assumed a cougar did it. Is there any real evidence that cougar do this or is it a matter of assumption? If any of you have a link that provides evidence of cougar caching deer in trees, can you link it? I have found some people claiming after studying cougar for years that they have never seen this behavior and this link has a few of them in it. The question has been posed is that in the east, is a deer found up in a tree evidence that cougar are in the area. This makes it quite relevant because the state agencies do not want to admit cougar inhabit their regions. http://coyotes-wolves-cougars.blogspot.com/2012/03/are-deer-cached-in-trees-evidence-of.html So what is the truth here? Deer have been found in trees fairly close to my area in the upper Midwest. What is truly responsible for this? An escaped leopard? If cougar do this, why isn't their much documentation (at least that I can find) of this? Finally, why would they do this as scavengers still can get to them and it would disperse the scent of rotting meat much further.
Cotter Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 Very good points. Hypervigiliant cougar enthusiasts assigning all possible evidence to cougars? Maybe golden eagles are dropping them from the sky?
Guest thermalman Posted September 11, 2012 Posted September 11, 2012 (edited) There is documented proof of it on a nature show that's been on tv. Can't think of the name off hand? But, have watched it. Also, watched leopards dragging their antelope up a tree, on tv, in past two weeks. Usually on NG channel. Edited September 11, 2012 by thermalman
Guest BFSleuth Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Okay, I'm searching for video of a cougar dragging a deer into a tree... ... then I run across this in a hunting forum: a deer is shot with an arrow and the wound is apparently enough that it would have died pretty quickly, but it is found lodged very firmly in the notch of a tree well over 12' in the air, so firmly they had to cut down the tree and really work at it to get the deer out. A pathologist looked over the deer.
Guest Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 A large bird of prey could also carry and drop a doe high in a tree...apparently there is proof http://dailypicksandflicks.com/2011/06/18/deer-on-power-lines-causes-power-outage-in-montana-video/
Guest UPs Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 In reference to the incident linked in that hunting forum, a pathologist surely would have been able to tell if there were any tooth marks in the deer carcass. If this story is true and they determined it was most likely put up there by a human, that tells me they have ruled out all known animal species from that area. I have shot deer with bow and arrow and made hits similar to the one described by the pathologist in that story. The deer will not go far at all, maybe 50 yards at the outside, but more likely, less than 25 yards. Why would a hunter leave a well shot deer? He/she could have hit it right before dark and planned on coming back in daylight or went to get help in finding it, gutting it, and dragging it out. I did not see anything in the story about interviewing the bow hunters in that immediate area to see if they could find the person who took the shot. Of course the deer could have been moved a long way from where the tree was located. If this is a bf related behavior, why? The deer was not consumed. Was it used as bait to attract wolves, coyotes, or bear? I really do not understand what is responsible for putting these deer so high up in trees. Have any of you that have active bf areas seen this?
Guest Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Cougars absolutely drag deer into trees. A couple of months ago, my father-in-law had a big Tom drag one of their sheep up into a tree. F&W came out and set a trap, but never got it. If they can lift it, they'll put it in a tree occasionally. I'm not sure what deciding factors make them do this, as opposed to hiding and burying it, but it does happen.
Guest UPs Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 Okay, I'm searching for video of a cougar dragging a deer into a tree... ... then I run across this in a hunting forum: a deer is shot with an arrow and the wound is apparently enough that it would have died pretty quickly, but it is found lodged very firmly in the notch of a tree well over 12' in the air, so firmly they had to cut down the tree and really work at it to get the deer out. A pathologist looked over the deer. Here is a link to a picture of that deer, it's NOT the one on the power pole, but the one lodged high up in a maple tree. There are no branches for an animal to use. This isn't a huge deer, but not a tiny one like that one linked above that was carried by an eagle. This had to have been done by the bow hunter that shot it as there was no evidence in the hide that it had been carried or dragged by an animal. If the hunter did do this, it pisses me off as its a waste of meat. http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/d/deerpole.htm As far as the other stories of these being found in the midwest, I don't believe they are cougar either as there is just no evidence that they do this. They are either made up stories, hoaxes, or something we just do not understand yet, IMO.
Guest Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 I don't think that its so much that officials don't want to admit to Panther inhabitation so much as they don't want to be inaccurate in stating that they are in the region when it may be a transient from another, a released pet, or one that has taken up a home in an uncommon region but is the only one. Just because there is one doesn't mean there is a breeding population. As for the question on Puma's stashing food in trees, I'm going with yes. It's the only known animal in the area that could exhibit that behaviour. As far as linking it to Sasquatch my question would be why? I'm not saying that it couldn't be out there what I am saying is I don't recall that being something other great apes or humans do regularly but is definitly something big cats have been seen doing. Just my thoughts on it.
Guest UPs Posted September 13, 2012 Posted September 13, 2012 I am thinking more of humans responsible for these. It doesn't fit with what we have so far as far as bf behavior. Not much else left really. If it was a very uncommon behavior for large cats, there would be much more common sign found. In othe words, the population would have to be very large for this to happen, statistically anyway. Frankly, I was quite surprised that I could find no documentation on large cats doing this. Lots of biologists studying them, no cases cited. In this specific case, cat pretty much ruled out by the pathologist.
Guest Posted September 14, 2012 Posted September 14, 2012 It's common knowledge that cougars drag kills into trees, y'all. It's not even debatable.
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