Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Yeah.. there is about as much proof in the Tar Pit thread as there is of what the Ketchum Report results are. Talk about turning hearsay into reality. Geeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 If there is a hoaxer among us, than they should certainly be outed. Obviously the intend was to make a hoax, let the Bigfooters run with it, then humiliate them for their belief in the end. That is malicious, damaging behavior and if anyone of the researchers who know who this person is, they have a responsibility to openly report on this guy. A malicious person, intend on derailing and damaging the reputation of serious research even more, through deliberate means,should not be afforded the luxury of hiding because they are a member, or premium member here, that makes the forum an accomplice to the hoax. As a matter of fact,anyone who was privy to the hoax before hand, that is a member should also be banded. DF seems to know who it is. So if he knows I would guess the other researchers also know. He said the identity would be known in a couple of days, then turns around and said he's washed his hands of the whole thing and isn't going to out the hoaxer. Go figure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBorn Posted October 7, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 7, 2012 Does it really matter who the hoaxer is . If you know what to look for in tracks or even in photos then hoaxing should not be a problem.The problem comes when you have an area that is being researched and it is ousted and hoaxes is then being played.That is a problem because it becomes wasted time and money.If i can catch hoaxer in the act well then that would be great . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I think it matters very much who the hoaxer is, and who else was in on it. I think in order to protect any sort of integrity to the Forum the whole story needs to be told, and dealt with. Who did it? Why? Was there more than one person involved? Is this what led to an obviously premature, confident declaration of a hoax? Why would they do any of this, other than out of malicious intend? What will it do to valid claims in the future? This really is a big deal, especially to the integrity of research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 You're saying that DR owes something to the people on this forum that attacked and insulted him. Yeah right. Good luck w/ that. That ship has sailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 You-know-who is a dirty hoaxer, and ought to be banned, along with anyone and everyone who either helped him or knew about it and said nothing as part of the plan. There would be no need for a ban. They would forever walk in shame and probably be too afraid to post again for fear of constant reminders, ridicule, bile, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 I'll give an explanation but that's all. We're talking to the person that's responsible for sending in the reports to Cliff B and the BFRO. We've told the person if they would please share why they did that, what their involvement was and how it was done, we would keep their name quiet. So far this person is working with us. That's really it. When I said two days, the person was not communicating with us. Now that changed. RS is right, don't owe anyone here an explanation, but there it is. Anything further, if there is anything will come from Scott Taylor. This is his investigation with the BFRO. I don't think he'll personally post it here though if he posts anything at all. DR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Its not about Derek owing anyone an explanation, or anyone specific, I did not mean to single him out, and as a matter of fact I did not single him out, someone else tried to put words in my mouth. I am saying, if there are members here who know for certain who the hoaxer is, and who else was privy to, and in on the scam, then they should be outed. Giving them protection or privacy just sends the message that members can expect privacy and protection if they decide to hoax. Is this forum about the discussion and research of Bigfoot, and does it have any integrity or not? If you want people to share info and thoughts, the very least you can do is try to maintain a level honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Yeah.. there is about as much proof in the Tar Pit thread as there is of what the Ketchum Report results are. Talk about turning hearsay into reality. Geeez. Just keep standing by your guy. It was HIS computer that sent the "tip off" email. The IP addy establishes that. With every post you post insisting You-know-Who is NOT a hoaxer, you kill a little more of the tiny scrap of credibility the Skeptics still have. Sooner or later, you guys are going to have to throw the guy (and any of his associates who might've been involved) under the bus to save yourselves from being tarred with the same brush. I think it matters very much who the hoaxer is, and who else was in on it. I think in order to protect any sort of integrity to the Forum the whole story needs to be told, and dealt with. Who did it? Why? Was there more than one person involved? Is this what led to an obviously premature, confident declaration of a hoax? Why would they do any of this, other than out of malicious intend? What will it do to valid claims in the future? This really is a big deal, especially to the integrity of research. Which was the intention all along: to play "Gotcha" and damage the credibility of researchers. And it backfired spectacularly when said researchers caught said hoaxer. Now they're desperately yelling "no proof, no proof, no proof" as loud as they can to keep the casual passers by from being made aware of that fact. There would be no need for a ban. They would forever walk in shame and probably be too afraid to post again for fear of constant reminders, ridicule, bile, etc. No, because if he were allowed to continue to post, he would still be protected by the civility rules. Any mention of his past misdeeds would be considered a personal attack. This is what I was told when I brought up another incident where a Skeptic was caught out of bounds (in this case deliberately continuing to mis-state another poster's position after being corrected repeatedly), and refused to retract or apologize for his statements.. I refused to let him forget it. I got Mod-hammered for incivility for not dropping the matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Mulder, You know absolutely nothing about this. Please stop spouting off as if you do. The researchers that got hoaxed owe you nor I or the forum anything. Perhaps they have good reasoning for not outing the person or persons involved. Maybe you should not second guess them and stop trying to bully them into getting what you want. It isn't about what YOU want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 No rockiess it is not about what Mulder wants, or what anyone wants, its about maintaining, and attempting to bring integrity to research. We hear a lot of complaining, and have a lot of expectations of science, and the reality is more scientist are paying attention than you think. Science is about substantiated fact and integrity. How can we ever expect science to take a serious stance,and go down a path of professionalism if we protect and shelter this kind of behavior? I guess I vastly underestimated the nature of this forum, I obviously "don't get it" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Just keep standing by your guy. It was HIS computer that sent the "tip off" email. The IP addy establishes that. You got proof of that Mulder or are you just repeating hearsay. Innocent until proven guilty. That is the American way isn't it.JC, I agree with you. The researchers protecting the identity of the hoaxer does nothing but lessen the credibility of the bigfoot community. It makes it look like their hiding something. All this secrecy in the bigfoot arena just puts a bad light on the whole subject in general. Edited October 8, 2012 by squatting squatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I don't understand all the outrage aimed at the researchers. When they first announced the trackway, it was "It's fake! It's fake!" Then they announced the hoax. "Prove it's a hoax!" Now it's "Give us a name or you're all lying!" Whazzup with that? Skeptics should be thrilled right now at all the critical thinking and analytical skills that have been applied to this case. Where's the love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Just as with negotiating with terrorists, there are stupid things you want to weed through when dealing with hoaxers. Right now, they are not getting want they wanted out of ELBE. They are not getting rewarded. They don't know what has been learned of them or to what extent they have been exposed. They are just trying to salvage things by attacking others to divert attention from themselves. The forum has allowed people from all walks of life to participate here. These people though are abusing these privileges, taking in detailed information as to what we look for in sightings and track finds. Police investigations don't do that... And they are very successful at getting to the bottom of things, but they still get copycat crimes. Hoaxers are looking for attention from this community... Recognition that they are smarter and clearer headed than you. Field investigations have to tighten up what information is made public from here on in. There is absolutely no reason to engage these types of people unless you just like to argue and fight. If that is the case, go for it. But from day one of being on this forum, I have maintained that somethings should be held back from others except for these vested and trusted to not share with others. Break that trust and all bets are off. Certainly, nothing is owed to those who would hoax. Those are the ones that are screaming to be believed, screaming at others to stop being naive, grow up and get a life. You who I am talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBorn Posted October 8, 2012 Moderator Share Posted October 8, 2012 It's like playing poker,you are not going anounce your hand to the table are you.Right! No i you are going to keep that good hand tight to table so that no one can see what you have.I really do not care about hoaxing, since the truth will always come out in the end.The ones who have seen them knowand the ones who are dealing with them know even more.So who cares about hoaxers i sure as heck don't. but i do care about the truth ,so it is not really worth getting all worked up over something that can be proven a lie that goes with hoaxers.My opionion not that it really matters much . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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