Guest Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 I don't understand all the outrage aimed at the researchers. When they first announced the trackway, it was "It's fake! It's fake!" Then they announced the hoax. "Prove it's a hoax!" Now it's "Give us a name or you're all lying!" Whazzup with that? Skeptics should be thrilled right now at all the critical thinking and analytical skills that have been applied to this case. Where's the love? The Skeptics are all PO-d that their little booby trap only caught Skeptical boobys. The researchers were too smart for them and exposed the hoax themselves. Oh, and rockiesquatching, I'll repeat that since it seems to have gotten past you: The researchers were not hoaxed. They didn't fall for the trap.
Guest Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 All this secrecy in the bigfoot arena just puts a bad light on the whole subject in general. So does constant speculation about secrecy.
Guest Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 Here's the thing. None of us are paid professionals, and this is not a court of law. Nobody's on trial here. If any one of you go out and do the investigation, put your own boots on the ground, then IMO it's up to you if you want to "out" the hoaxer. We all had time invested and I had the most, but It was my choice to spend the time I did. Nobody forced me to go there. Truth be told I was very excited to go for all the obvious reasons, as well as getting the chance to possibly work with Rick Noll again. I've been waiting years for that opportunity. A lot of good things have come from this, a lot of things that have not been mentioned here. We've all learned a lot. One thing is we all have to raise our game, and we will. I seriously think this should be kept in perspective. Nobody got hurt and no one died. Someone made some fake tracks. I'll admit I was very upset at the beginning, but I'm way past that now. I don't want to be involved with screwing up someones lives over a fake set of tracks. That's silly. This is Bigfoot research. Most of the things we investigate are miss-identification, overactive imaginations, or down right hoaxes. It not like this is something new. I think most of us, myself included take ourselves way to serious sometimes. We have the opportunity to learn more here, and that's what we intend to do, so it would be nice if we can drop the torches and pitch forks and move on to the next "big thing". DR
Guest COGrizzly Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 I don't want to be involved with screwing up someones lives over a fake set of tracks. That's silly. DR That's mighty nice of you. Being the "better person" and such. Good for you!
Guest Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 That's all well and good for Derek personally, but the integrity of the forum is at stake IMO. If we allow a confirmed hoaxer to go un "outed", unpunished, and still able to post here, then it seems to me that we are not serious about keeping the field cleaned up. He will be allowed to continue to say whatever he wants, and we won't be able to remind people that he is a confirmed fabricator and his word is not to be trusted.
Guest Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 All due respect Mulder, I see your point, but the key word here IS integrity. We've given the person our word we'd stay quiet if they'd cooperate, and that's what they're doing. Yes we have integrity. I'll speak for myself here when I say, I'm not going to break my word to this person to keep people happy here on this forum, a lot of the same people that have attacked me over the Skookum thread, the Sierra thread, the Ketchum thread and so on. I'm not generalizing everyone here, some have been awesome, but some have been rude and nasty. Long story short, that's the way it is. If you give someone your word, you better live and die by it or your name and integrity don't belong in the same sentence. DR
Guest baboonpete Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 That's all well and good for Derek personally, but the integrity of the forum is at stake IMO. If we allow a confirmed hoaxer to go un "outed", unpunished, and still able to post here, then it seems to me that we are not serious about keeping the field cleaned up. He will be allowed to continue to say whatever he wants, and we won't be able to remind people that he is a confirmed fabricator and his word is not to be trusted. If they were to out him, they open themselves to litigation from the hoaxer. As for integrity of the forum? This was their trackway and they really don't owe the forum anything. The fact they posted their findings here was their choice, not any obligation. And honetsly, outing the hoaxer might seem to some to just be spite.
Drew Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 Why is it such a terrible thing to hoax a trackway? Famous Bigfoot people have been hoaxing for years. Freeman, Marx, Patterson. Why are the chest feathers getting stuck out over this one? seems to me that a hoax from the inside is a lot more detrimental to a cause than a hoax from the outside.
Guest Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 All due respect Mulder, I see your point, but the key word here IS integrity. We've given the person our word we'd stay quiet if they'd cooperate, and that's what they're doing. Yes we have integrity. I'll speak for myself here when I say, I'm not going to break my word to this person to keep people happy here on this forum, a lot of the same people that have attacked me over the Skookum thread, the Sierra thread, the Ketchum thread and so on. I'm not generalizing everyone here, some have been awesome, but some have been rude and nasty. Long story short, that's the way it is. If you give someone your word, you better live and die by it or your name and integrity don't belong in the same sentence. DR Derek, I understand and respect that you feel it's a matter of personal integrity, and I credit you for yours. It's not like we all don't know exactly who we're talking about anyways. We just can't name names in the open forum per the rules. I'm hoping that the SC will sooner or later sanction the guy. Why is it such a terrible thing to hoax a trackway? Given the stance the person in question has taken on the issue, it's little better than pot-stirring. It's disingenuous, esp in that he hasn't come clean about what he's done. Last I knew, he was still engaging in his "non-denial denial" tactics. His little stunt was nothing more than a malicious attempt to "gotcha" respected researchers, and if he's willing to go that far just to play a silly little game like that, how can ANYthing he says be trusted, and why should we (as a forum) give him a venue to continue to say things no one can trust? Longtabber got the heave-ho for far less than what this guy has done. If they were to out him, they open themselves to litigation from the hoaxer. The truth is a complete defense against any action based on reputation. outing the hoaxer might seem to some to just be spite. Really? If it WERE a case of the researchers hoaxing, would you still be so charitable? Somehow I doubt it.
Guest Cervelo Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 Kinda seems likes everybody's over it, but it was interesting that's for sure!
Drew Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 Longtabber got the heave-ho for far less than what this guy has done. So the hoaxer is masquerading as a special forces officer? Really, you think this is worse than that? I can think of few things worse than stealing the honor of those fine people.
Guest BFSleuth Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 Perhaps we should change the title of this thread to In Defense of Hoaxing .... ? It is ironic that those who most vociferously castigate hoaxing are suddenly coming to the defense of a hoaxer.
Guest Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 Maybe the title could be, " Lets see what we can learn so we are more effective in the field ". We're not going to learn new things by throwing person under bus tires. DR
Guest Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 I think based on how badly some people in this thread want this guy's head that perhaps DF decided it would be better to just not throw the guy under the bus for his own safety. First you attack the hoaxer and now you are attacking the researchers. Talk about an unstable and endless supply of vitriol.
Guest Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 I respectfully disagree with Derek, the hoaxer, as all hoaxers should be exposed. Tell me...did this hoaxer hesitate to throw other hoaxers under the bus when they where in engaged in "skeptical" debate? Don't answer though Derek, I have no urge to debate this with you. only to express my opinion over all. I have no doubt, the hoaxer, his motivations, and the role a few others played in this will come to light anyway, as a matter of fact I have pretty good idea what its all about just by watching here and Jreff. One thing to mention, they would never, ever, for a millisecond, given you the respect or kindness you are giving them Derek. As a matter of fact, they where really hoping to ridicule, and rip a few of you to shreds, obviously. I hope they realize how much better than them you are.
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