Guest Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 (edited) I just confirmed, there were no other dogs on the private property nor in the proximity to the recorder. There were no tracks around the recorder except for Mike and the snow was melting, so it wasn't hard packed. Please let me know if there any other questions. Thanks Curious, since I live in the desert I am not a snow expert. My question is this: Fresh 2-3 inches of snow is soft, correct? Is melting snow harder than fresh snow, 2-3 inches? One other thing, the person took no photographs of the location or video during the day? For all we know, this could be in Sonora Mexico, Paris France or San Diego Zoo and we are taking someones "word" on the location. I'm not calling anyone a liar, just pointing out, when researchers plant devices, documenting the location and area before and after gives more solidity to the evidence provided. just sayin... Edited November 20, 2012 by BadVooDoo
Northern Lights Posted November 20, 2012 Author Posted November 20, 2012 Ah, snow. Right in my wheelhouse. Funny since I grew up in San Diego and moved here just because. Probably need my head examined. Back to snow, and the answer is, it depends. I know, not what you were looking for, but it really depends upon water content of the pack and whether it has started to melt and then re-froze. If we get a heavy wet snow and then the temp drops, it can be very hard and will support a fair amount of weight. LIght snow with very little water will not. 2-3 inches of light snow, you wouldn't hear anything on a recorder. Heavier melting snow, you would hear crunching as feet would penetrate to the ground. Hard pack that is not melting sounds more like walking on a tin roof (tink, tink). That's about the best I can come up with.
Guest BFSleuth Posted November 20, 2012 Posted November 20, 2012 ... and don't forget that nice crunching and squeaking sound you get under boot when you have consolidating powder in very cold conditions several days after a snowfall. Can you advise the snowfall/precipitation and weather pattern leading up to the time of the recording? I agree that having some photos or video of the recorder location would be helpful as well.
Guest Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 I noticed when you hear whatever passes by the recorder at around 16:49 I can hear the squeal or cry of coyote or wolf. It seems as though they are trying to get away from something to me. The howls especially the later ones sound very interesting.
gigantor Posted November 21, 2012 Admin Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) I'm always surprised by the conclusions drawn from recordings. Everyone agrees that there are canine sounds for most of the recording, many minutes indeed; yet cherry-picking 5% of it and saying "we haven't heard that before" does NOT mean it was BF. The logical conclusion is that you haven't heard canines who are admittedly present make those sounds before. Well, now you have Edited November 21, 2012 by gigantor
NathanFooter Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 Nightstalker > I too heard the canine cry in this clip, if this is a group of Squatches it is possible that these howles where done to locate wolves or push them out of an area. If they are doing these howles to locate the wolves it would help show where the prey concentrations are. OR these howles could be a family unit taking over an area by sounding like bigger more fierce wolves in an effort of pushing the other predators out of house and home.
Rockape Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 The howls sound canine to me. I guess I don't understand why folks don't allow for variability in wolf/coyote vocalization. Sometimes a wolf will sound deeper than usual, more guttural than usual, etc. Sometimes a coyote will sound very "primate"y to our ears. I've got a dog who barks with a really hoarse, scratchy, shallow sound, but when we get her ready for bed with a last treat for the night she gets very excited and gives very deep "rrrooooo" sounds. That's the same individual in the same place (my living room) making markedly different calls. Imagine how much more variability there might be in different members of a pack of wolves (or from different packs) calling according to their many and varied different motivations, under different atmospheric conditions, in varied terrain, at different distances from the recorder, etc. As for the "slapping" sounds around 16 minutes, they sound like one or more canids trotting around through leaf litter or crusty snow. I'm pretty sure you can hear a quick canine whine around 16:40 or so. Very cool recording, but I don't hear anything I wouldn't be able to attribute to known wildlife in the area. Gotta agree saskeptic. But then I'm usually less than impressed with sound recordings of purported BF. Canines can emit a range of vocals. I had a Lab/Akita mix (big dog) with a "deep voice" and when he let loose a good howl it sounded like something being tortured in the pits of hell. Anyone who ever witnessed it agreed it was the freakiest thing they ever heard, not like a dog, more like a human moan.
Guest FootDude Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 Mike thank you very much for posting this. I remember a few months ago when it was released and then quickly pulled of the internet. I'd been looking around for it and then finally gave up. I think your groups analysis was as reasonable as could be. This is very very interesting... The howls sound canine to me. At times they do, and at other times it sounds like a much more 'massive' (for lack of a better term) creature making the noises. There seems to be some similarity to wolf howls at times. Then at other times there is much less wolf-like 'falsetto' and more of a deep baritone/bass sounding hominid yell/moan, which then transitions back to the somewhat wolf-like howls again.
Guest Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) Some seem canine and others seem to be in the human range and others I just have no idea. However, I have sang in choirs for years, and to me, I do hear a very different timbre to the voice in some of them... It's the 8:30 to 12 minute segment and the 3:06 to 3:18 howls that sound so human. The "wooooo" call is exactly what my best choral teacher tried to get us all to do to get our voices out of our chests and throats and "into our foreheads", as he said. We actually practiced making this noise, though we go up and stop, not back down. Whomever this is making this noise, my choir director would LOVE him. That he does it without a voice break and keeps the intensity is amazing. Believe it or not, this is VERY difficult to do, I know that sounds strange. Most people sing and breathe wrong. There is strong diaphram support here to keep that voice "in his forehead". The six howls in the 17 - 19 minute recording are the same voice as the one above, I'm nearly certain. Back up your recordings to the start of them both, and listen to them immediately following one another. They sound like the same being to me. The other howls I'd say belong to other creatures, but these two sets - they sound human quality. Edited November 21, 2012 by madison5716
Guest VioletX Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 I am the last person to know about wolf howls, but to me a lot of them sound more human than canine. If I were going to howl and I have howled with present and past dogs, for sure, I would imitate a dog, coyote or wolf howl. It seems a natural sound to make. I did hear something like Samarai chatter, not where it was indicated, but at another place I would have to re-listen to find it. Le sigh...
Guest FootDude Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) Some seem canine and others seem to be in the human range and others I just have no idea. However, I have sang in choirs for years, and to me, I do hear a human quality voice in some of the howls, it's just a very different timbre to the voice in some of them... It's primarily the 8:30 to 12 minute segment and the 3:06 to 3:18 howls that sound so human. The "wooooo" call is exactly what my best choral teacher tried to get us all to do to get our voices out of our chests and throats and "into our foreheads", as he said. We actually practiced making this noise, though we go up and stop, not back down. Whomever this is making this noise, my choir director would LOVE him. That he does it without a voice break and keeps the intensity is amazing. Believe it or not, this is VERY difficult to do, I know that sounds strange. Most people sing and breathe wrong. There is strong diaphram support here to keep that voice "in his forehead". The six howls in the 17 - 19 minute recording is also very human sounding. Thank you for that thoughtful post Madison. I don't have the singer's or linguist's vocabulary to describe what you just did, but I think you about summed up what I tried to express with my clumsily worded thoughts 3 posts above. It would be interesting to get some truly expert analysis on these howls. Edited November 21, 2012 by FootDude
Guest Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 why does it have to be wolves ? (if assuming canine) What about regular old dogs... ? Here's two great examples of similar to what i heard lots of on the recording... First one- skip to the 1:28 mark for the howling... 2nd clip, relevant howling starts at :08 seconds... Fire whistles, police sirens, and TRAIN HORNS have been known to set them off howling... Yea I'll be honest, there was some funky stuff in that recording, the smacking noises, and some of the howls did indeed sound "different", and while I enjoyed listening to it, and found the howls to be haunting, regardless of their origin, the best that we could say it that its possible... Thanks for putting it up for discussion though, and please pass along our kind regards to the person who took the recording...
Guest thermalman Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 Sorry Art, not even close to what's on the recording. The MN recording howls had much more depth and tone. Not to say they weren't wolves, but certainly not domestic dogs, IMO.
Northern Lights Posted November 21, 2012 Author Posted November 21, 2012 I would like to thank everyone for the posts and comments on the recordings. I think it's absolutely fantastic to hear the opinions throughout the forum. I will admit that I'm more than biased in my opinions on this subject due to knowing the individuals who collected and analyzed the recordings. Personally I enjoy listening to audio because as I'm listening, I'm back at that location in my mind and visualizing what is going on. I have a recording done a couple of weeks ago at a location that has had lots of sasquatch encounters and I can hear something walk directly up to the recorder and walk away. It sounds bipedal and I can feel my heart race as I'm listening, like I right there. My recorder was in my car and everyone on the trip was well over a mile away at the time. Fun stuff. Keep it coming. Thanks
Guest VioletX Posted November 21, 2012 Posted November 21, 2012 Sorry Art, not even close to what's on the recording. The MN recording howls had much more depth and tone. Not to say they weren't wolves, but certainly not domestic dogs, IMO. Yeah nice try Art. Are these your pups ; )? There was a similar tone in the middle but the beginning and end is typically canine and less powerful. The "sasquatch" howls have a head resonance and a chest resonance and more sustain, as well as a more human sounding vowel at times. But who knows?
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