Nests, Caves And The Underground Theory...

[Guest]

I have often heard somewhat vague references to Sasqutch sleeping in caves and the occasional time the 'living underground' theory surfaces; but I want to know from folk how much research and understanding do we have on Sasquatch nesting in trees?

We know gorillas and chimps do it and it makes sense to keep off the damp forest floor. If there are plenty evergreen trees around the foliage should provide excellent all year round cover.

Does this seem plausible? Is there major reasoning against this that I have overlooked?

[Guest DWA]

Not in trees per se, but there is considerable evidence of nest construction that appears different from anything that known animals make. At least one such nest was found inside a cave. Alley's Raincoast Sasquatch, one of the best books on the bigfoot topic, has some interesting information about nests.

[Guest]

I've always wondered how many mammals survive at all through long harsh winters in the Northern latutudes.

[Guest]

I've always wondered how many mammals survive at all through long harsh winters in the Northern latutudes.

Snow even though as harsh it can be, makes many animals homes in the winter. Snow when compacted can be a real good insulator. Tempertures can reach 20 degrees celsius(75 degrees farenheit) in side compacted burroes underneith the snow. So if the theroy is true that Sasquatches live underground they must have ways and if they insulate it with snow that could help with the cold.

[Guest BastetsCat]

As for heat in winter...it is in direct relation to access to food. If a horse eats hay, it also produces heat within the body of the animal. So as long as the animal in in health and eats then it can stay warm. Most animals that eat vegetation do not burrow or den up, unless they hibernate. On the other hand most meat eaters do den up, or live in caves, or hibernate as in bears. It offers the ability to get out of the cold and the elements.

In the case of BF. It would make sense that they would also den up. Althought the harsh climate that they stick too often is colder at night when they are most often out in it. The massive frame they carry could likely be as bulky as a polar bear.

[Guest]

This is the front view of where some of the evidence in my possession came from.

[TD-40]

I have heard that bigfoot travel and wander many miles every day. So I don't think they sleep in the same place every night. I would think that a traveler would have homes in different places to stay the night wherever he happens to be the closest, and it probably has different types of homes. They may have a cave in one area, a nest up high in a bundle of trees in another area, a lean-to in another area, and who-knows-what in another area, probably all depending on the weather and where they happen to be when they get sleepy.

[JDL]

I suggested a while back that they must have middens in their dens. A midden containing the right mix of materials may generate heat the same way that a compost pile does. This would eliminate the need for fire and could explain some of the odor of rotting materials that they sometimes carry about them.

[Guest]

This one is up behind in the bed facing back towards first picture. Neat.

[Guest]

They do rest in trees, at least in summertimes. It's cool up above, in the breeze. They can make a little spot where they won't fall out. They make perches for standing watch, like a crow's nest of a ship. They make screens so you cannot see them--screens of leafy branches if deciduous, screens of pine straw and dead branches, etc. in conifers. That's what I think, anyway. I noticed this in trees I have become very familiar with .

Underground--some researchers think so. Lori Simmons, on Youtube, is one such. I recall one report that had people walking across some logs in the rainforest someplace and from below, the logs were pushed up, yikes.....

I think they probably do this, as in some reports people rescued or kidnapped seem to find themselves in what might be a cave.

I was on Mt St Helens last summer and found some arches and under them my daughter noticed it sounded hollow and it was sort of springy. So...?

My guess is they do what is expedient depending on the area, climate, materials, geography.....same as we do.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Kings Canyon

[Guest BFSleuth]

I have heard that bigfoot travel and wander many miles every day. So I don't think they sleep in the same place every night. I would think that a traveler would have homes in different places to stay the night wherever he happens to be the closest, and it probably has different types of homes. They may have a cave in one area, a nest up high in a bundle of trees in another area, a lean-to in another area, and who-knows-what in another area, probably all depending on the weather and where they happen to be when they get sleepy.

It seems to me that it would be most likely they have seasonal migration within a given territory, although some accounts seem to note they may not come back to a particular area for years at a time. I agree that once they have "learned" the territory they would likely come back to a favorite location time and again: a good cave, a well wooded ravine, a nest structure.

[TD-40]

I think this helps to explain some strange looking masses of sticks, bushes, leaves, and other forest vegetation in areas that remain unexplained. The Bf may have built it, used it for a while, then moved on somewhere else. I tend to think this is the case with the structure seen in the Marble Mtn. video. I also think that the Mogollon Monster crew down in AZ has found these structures and has posted trail cams and got nothing on camera. The Bf has either moved on or it has seen the crew in the area and has abandoned the place as far as sleeping there goes. If these creatures do exist like I believe they do, then part of their survival is recognizing when the area they are used to roaming has become contaminated with humans, they have used up the resources in the area, and realizing that it's time to move on somewhere else (migration patterns).

Edited November 28, 2012 by TD-40

[Guest BFSleuth]

Other than caves I would be surprised if BF would use a particular shelter for an extended period of time. My impression of stick structures is that most of them are discovered months or years after construction, when leaves have fallen off. They would be useful when first built, when leaves provide shelter and cover for hiding. However, they would be less effective or useless the next year, so a new shelter would need to be built. Caves or underground dwellings could be used year after year, with additional bedding materials as needed.

[Guest]

The article below is an excellent insight into the nesting behaviour of great apes. Gorillas very rarely return to old nests although they may return to a nesting site. They are also much more likely to nest on the floor. Very much in keeping with previous posts.

http://animals.howstuffworks.com/mammals/gorilla-nests1.htm

Gorilla Nest Building

One of the most common ways that wildlife experts estimate the number of gorillas in an area is to count the number of nests, which are often easier to spot than the actual apes [source: Sanz et al]. Gorilla nest building usually occurs in trees or on the ground, and these apes use branches and leaves as their mattresses. Usually, ground nests are made of herbaceous plants, but the materials vary according to season and what's available [source: Tutin et al]. Generally, they construct their beds more often on the ground than in trees [source: Iwata and Ando]. This nest-building behavior isn't unique to gorillas. In fact, all great apes build nests [source: Iwata and Ando]. Just like your bed at home, ape nests provide comfort, warmth and protection.

However, the handmade lodgings are more like sleeping bags than beds since they're intended for temporary use. Great apes practice nomadic living patterns, migrating from place to place in accordance with fruit or vegetation abundance. On average, gorilla troops travel 0.24 to 0.60 miles (400 to 1,000 meters) daily [source: SeaWorld]. As vegetarians, their diet relies on seasonal crops and plants. And as the largest of the great ape species, gorillas can put away a heap of food. The average adult male gorilla will eat up to 40 pounds (18 kilograms) of fruits and veggies each day [source: San Diego Zoo].Chimpanzees may reuse old nests, especially near trees that are bearing fruit [source: Iwata and Ando].

Gorillas, on the other hand, rarely sleep in the same nest twice and build a fresh one every evening. In a study on the reuse of western lowland gorilla nests, these animals slept in only 4.1 percent of existing beds more than once [source: Iwata and Ando]. Illustrating their preference for fresh bedding, the gorillas returned to more than a third of original bedding sites and made new ones [source: Iwata and Ando].Abandoned nests hold a wealth of information about their former tenants that researchers use to assess the health of ape groups. First, there's the number of nests, which gives an approximation of the population size. Adults sleep in their own individual nests, but baby gorillas sleep with their mothers until the age of 3, after which they'll build their own nests [source: Estes and Otte]. Second, researchers can extract hair samples in order to examine individuals' health. And finally, we can't leave out the importance of feces.

Droppings indicate food abundance and contain olfactory distinctions between the different species for precise identification.Some primatologists and evolutionary biologists consider nest building to be a form of behavioral adaptation passed along to hominids [source: McGrew et al]. Observation of nesting behavior has highlighted social aspects involved with this form of bedding. Within these nests, gorilla troops sleep in groups, groom each other, play together and sometimes mate [source: Pi et al]. Also, since all great apes share this nest-building behavior, that makes it more probable that the behavior evolved from a common ancestor rather than developing independently in each species [source: McGrew et al].

FYI, I really want to discuss migration but I think I'll start a new topic about it shortly...

[TD-40]

I would suggest doing a search for 'migration' because it's a topic that isn't new.