"is Squatch Eating Our Kids" This Makes Me See Bf Differently, It's Scary!

[Guest]

I'm sure you are familiar with David Paulides being a major proponent of the Bluff Creek Massacre theory.

[norseman]

^^^^^

does this somehow diminish what the martins went through with there missing boy?

i disagree with some of mr paulides's positions. that doesnt mean those books are fantasy. in fact he goes through great effort to seperate bigfoot from the books.

[Airdale]

I have not read the 411 books yet, but it would make sense that if a certain percentage of a bf population took to human predation, many of the national parks are natural supermarkets. I live roughly midway between Yellowstone and Glacier, and some of the things park visitors do boggle the imagination. Yellowstone in particular seems to attract folks who view Bison as some sort of overgrown teddy bear, leading not infrequently to their being gored and/or trampled.

The main point is, national parks are the one place where average people, usually in vacation mode, interface most directly with some of the wildest back country on the continent. They camp, picnic, stop to look at and photograph wildlife, etc., and with lots of other people around feel quite secure. Yet for all the rustic trappings of civilization clustered here and there, most places are little more than a stones throw from near wilderness. I'm not taking sides as to whether it is or may be occurring, only that national parks would be a logical place where an alpha predator with a high level of intelligence combined with animal cunning could target unwary and likely unarmed humans for abduction and have a high probability of success.

[Guest DWA]

Exactly. Plussed.

The success rates of predators against natural prey can be largely explained by the natural defenses of the natural prey.

(What do you think a whale shark's or blue whale's or manta ray's success rate is against krill? Right.)

People really do behave in parks like there's a plexiglass wall between them and the woods on the side of the trail.

There isn't.

Edited April 8, 2013 by DWA

[Guest]

[ ..] I'm not taking sides as to whether it is or may be occurring, only that national parks would be a logical place where an alpha predator with a high level of intelligence combined with animal cunning could target unwary and likely unarmed humans for abduction and have a high probability of success.

Additionally, the higher population of humans in the parks would tend to mask the disappearances and draw less attention to the actual predation. People would tend to blame the disappearances on other humans...

[MIB]

The cases where someone flat out disappeared are one thing. The cases where the missing person was returned to a location already searched is something else. Particularly where they are alive but can't or won't articulate where they've been. I suggest that an ostrich-style response could have fatal consequences. Denial is not your friend. THAT something is happening is almost beyond rational debate; WHAT is happening, who/what (possibly more than one), and why ... those remain unanswered.

MIB

[Guest]

Watch out, Paramafait is going to get you. No, I don't think anyone is debating that people are disappearing. And I might even go so far as to say maybe a few were taken out by a berserk, rouge or starving BF. But to say all 600+ people were eaten by BF is QUITE a stretch. Sasquatch has been studied for decades by hundreds of people. Paulides comes out and INFERS all the missing are being taken out by BF. I would think even the most uniformed researcher would call b.s. on that. I have more of a tendency to listen to people who have been in the field for years instead of someone who just looks at data or interviews people. Boots on the ground, and in the trenches are the ones EXPERIENCING things. Not a data surveyor or interviewer. I also look at "who has what to gain" from a research standpoint. Someone who knows the juicier the story the more money they are going to make from their books, or the person that says "come on out with me in an area of your choice and we will see what we can find."

[norseman]

guitarman,

several points.......

1) in many of the cases the missing are found dead. so the data doesnt point to all cases being predation by whatever is responsible.

2) i have no idea how you can claim david is inferring that all of these cases are a result of bigfoot. he purposefully detached the missing cases from bigfoot and refuses to meld them into one subject when interviewed. yes he is a bigfoot researcher......he is also a mufon investigator. so are there ufologists out there somewhere who think the 411 books are a result of alien abductions? this is simple speculation by people who read the books and not anything he has stated publicly.

3) his books read like police reports just facts surrounding each case. some extensive some not, with also parallels between cases thrown in. so how does one make a book "more juicy" if its just the case facts without his own conjecture or theories about each case added?

4) i have great respect for boots on the ground. but i dont think in this case with his 411 books he is attempting to replace or devalue that knowledge. when he talks about his other work such as the hoopa project i know that his beliefs are controversial within the bigfoot community. but i think that is a seperate issue.....but the title of this thread is simply conjecture by some in the bigfoot community and has nothing to do with paulides.

i personally have no problem with bigfoot being a predatory animal which may include humans in their diet or nab people as potential mates or surrogate offspring whatever. i dont think its a blood thirsty monster that could wipe out a seal team as one well known researcher has suggested. nor is it a cuddly hairy teddy bear as depicted in the harry and the hendersons movie. as a wild animal in north america filling the niche as a large omnivore its going to utilize its surroundings to maximize its probability of survival. if its faced with starvation vs preying on a lone hiker? i would not want to be that hiker. but maybe its faced with starvation because a one in ten year weather cycle like la nina has caused the berry crop to fail in a particular area. bears are known to become aggressive to humans when normal eating habits are disrupted. i doubt a squatch is any different. boots on the ground making observations are great but we are kidding ourselves if we think we have the complete picture with this species. or how it might react in all situations.

also remember these books go back one hundred years. even if bigfoot is responsible for every single case in each book which i doubt? spread over 100 years? bee stings and lightning strikes id wager are a much greater threat to us statistically in our parks than bigfoot is. but i certainly think its important that the species is proven so that more can be known through scientific study.

Edited April 10, 2013 by norseman

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

After finishing the western edition, I was convinced that maybe something really is kidnapping a lot of the people named in the book, but have since changed my mind. I don't think Paulides is being 100% honest with these books. It would be nice if he at least discussed what he and a lot of the readers are thinking, but I guess that's not going to happen. I must admit though, if someone's seen one of these creatures, it's probably no longer a huge stretch to imagine that maybe some people did have encounters like Albert Ostman's.

[norseman]

so you think he is being dishonest because he doesnt give a hypothesis? interesting.........

[Guest]

After finishing the western edition, I was convinced that maybe something really is kidnapping a lot of the people named in the book, but have since changed my mind. I don't think Paulides is being 100% honest with these books. It would be nice if he at least discussed what he and a lot of the readers are thinking, but I guess that's not going to happen. I must admit though, if someone's seen one of these creatures, it's probably no longer a huge stretch to imagine that maybe some people did have encounters like Albert Ostman's.

That's one of my problems with him, he dances around what he may think or others believe it may be. I got the outstanding feeling he had a lot of "off the record" information he wasn't going to share. Or at the very least, knew something more than he was willing to share. He reminds me of the Washington 911 caller. The guy that calls because he saw a BF when his back sensor light came on and had his dog killed a few weeks before. He was INCREDIBLY careful not to say the words BF or creature or monster. Knowing if he had, 911 would have not dispatched units to his house. Or would have been very slow to dispatch them.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Guitarman

[Guest]

After finishing the western edition, I was convinced that maybe something really is kidnapping a lot of the people named in the book, but have since changed my mind. I don't think Paulides is being 100% honest with these books. It would be nice if he at least discussed what he and a lot of the readers are thinking, but I guess that's not going to happen. I must admit though, if someone's seen one of these creatures, it's probably no longer a huge stretch to imagine that maybe some people did have encounters like Albert Ostman's.

That's one of my problems with him, he dances around what he may think or others believe it may be. I got the outstanding feeling he had a lot of "off the record" information he wasn't going to share. Or at the very least, knew something more than he was willing to share. He reminds me of the Washington 911 caller. The guy that calls because he saw a BF when his back sensor light came on and had his dog killed a few weeks before. He was INCREDIBLY careful not to say the words BF or creature or monster. Knowing if he had, 911 would have not dispatched units to his house. Or would have been very slow to dispatch them.

if I called to report a bigfoot in my back yard, I wouldn't say "bigfoot", either. Maybe I'm missing your point?

[Guest JenJen of Oldstones]

I found this story today from Liberty County, TX, near the town of Cleveland, and immediately thought of this thread. The story is dated Feb 2013, and all the events happened within the last year. The cell phone of one of the missing men last pinged from the middle of a swamp, which is... really creepy but intriguing.

 

Thoughts?

 

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Disappearances-of-3-Liberty-County-men-remain-4246204.php

 

Mystery of 3 missing Liberty County men remains unsolved

For three families waiting for answers, the forbidding woods and bogs of north Liberty County seem to have swallowed their fathers last year without leaving a trace.

 

"How can people be swallowed whole and never seen again like this? This is crazy," said Kimberly Rogers, whose father, Dennis, was the last of the three men to disappear nearly 10 months ago.

 

When she tried to put out fliers for him, she was rebuffed by store clerks who thought she had already been there. The clerks were confused by fliers posted earlier for the other two missing men.

 

"It's more than weird. It's unbelievable," said Amanda Rhineburger, whose father, Mark, was reported missing four weeks before Kimberly's.

 

David Rogers, whose father, Edwin, was the first to be reported missing more than a year ago on Jan. 6, can't believe someone hasn't come forward with a single clue leading to their whereabouts.

 

All three men vanished over a 10-week span within a 20-mile radius of one another. They were not only fathers but also grandfathers who kept in regular contact with family, not the types to wander far from home.

 

Two of the missing - Edwin Rogers and Mark Rhineburger - mysteriously vanished after abandoning their vehicles along roadways with the keys still in them.

 

The third, Dennis Rogers, disappeared while on his daily walk with his last cellphone call giving a "pinged" location in the middle of a remote swampy area.

 

None of the missing is related. Their bank accounts and credit cards have remained untouched since they disappeared. Their unoccupied homes have been vandalized and had everything from copper wiring to air-conditioning units stolen.

 

"We have no firm theories on what has happened to any of them," said Liberty County sheriff's spokesman Capt. Ken DeFoor.

 

Hundreds have searched for the three men, trudging through dense forests and swamps where alligators as long as cars, wild hogs and even panthers prowl.

 

They've used everything from helicopters with infrared cameras to horses and all-terrain vehicles to search.

 

Sought a psychic

 

With so many unanswered questions, Dennis Rogers' family went so far as to seek help from a psychic used by the Houston Police Department in the past.

 

"The psychic told us she didn't see Dennis getting out of that swamp, said he had a head injury," said Rogers' former wife, Tammy Rogers. "But she couldn't tell us more than that."

 

Even if found alive, Dennis, 54, an amateur race car driver from Plum Grove, probably wouldn't remember what had happened to him, his daughter, Kimberly said. At the start of a drag race, he suffered a heart attack several years ago that damaged his short-term memory.

 

Yet he was able to walk the familiar loop that encircled his home off Texas 321 every day until March 8, when for some unknown reason he detoured from that path. When his daughters reached him by cellphone, he talked about being "lost and confused" before his phone went dead.

 

The last "ping" from his cellphone was traced to a spot six miles into a thick forested swamp. Tracks matching his boot pattern also were found wandering in circles in that vicinity, but no sign of him.

 

Facebook rumors

 

Investigators also tracked down rumors overheard at a bar and posted on Facebook that Dennis had been "taken on a ride from which he would never return" but never could substantiate them.

 

Mark Rhineburger, a welder from Crosby, disappeared Feb. 15 - on his 39th birthday - after his white Chevrolet truck crashed into a vacant house off FM 787. Authorities shortly afterward found his vehicle empty and no sign of a struggle. Six weeks later, Rhineburger's jacket with his cellphone in the pocket was found a few miles away near a remote gravel pit, authorities said.

 

His daughter, Amanda, said when she last spoke to her father he said he was meeting someone on his birthday.

 

She said that on the day of his disappearance, he rushed from his home without his billfold and afterward told two different gas station attendants that he was being chased or followed.

 

Jeep parked for 6 days

 

Edwin Rogers, 62, a disabled trucker, hasn't been seen since his Grand Cherokee jeep was discovered with his cellphone inside on the shoulder of Texas 321 less than a mile from the home he shared off and on with his estranged wife. After the vehicle didn't move for six days and no one could locate him, he was reported missing on Jan. 6 last year.

 

Investigators dug up a depressed area in his backyard where they thought a body might be buried but found nothing. Sweat from his cowboy hat and baseball cap has since been sent to a lab to construct his DNA profile.

 

"He couldn't have walked far. He has bad feet from his days of service as a Vietnam vet," said his brother, Lesley, who suspects foul play.

[WSA]

O.K., here's what drives me up the wall regarding some news stories I read, and what passes for journalism in our time: Wouldn't you think it would be important to know, and for the reporter to report, if any of these men knew one another? If that fact is covered here, I missed it.

[LeafTalker]

Very disturbing story. 

 

This line makes me doubt a connection to Sasquatch, though: "Their unoccupied homes have been vandalized and had everything from copper wiring to air-conditioning units stolen."

 

I don't think a Sasquatch would ever have a reason to remove an air conditioner from a home. I also don't think they would regard a home that has belonged to someone for a long period of time as a valid target. I know there are reports of them trashing cabins or outbuildings where people have "suddenly" (from a Sasquatch's point of view) moved in, if they feel their territory has been encroached upon; but a systematic effort to persecute an individual (by killing him and then destroying a home he has occupied for a long while) just doesn't sound like something that they've ever been reported to do.

 

And I don't think that, if a Sasquatch is pursuing you, you have time to stop at two gas stations to say you're being pursued.

 

If a Sasquatch pursues you with the intention of helping you pass on to another plane, I don't think it's a long drawn-out process.   

 

Just a few reasons this doesn't seem Sasquatch-related, to me.