"squatchholm" Syndrome

[norseman]

Norseman, the damned things exist. I've been face-to-face with an eight and a half foot tall male wondering whether or not it was going to take my head off first, or my friend's, or my brother's. But telling you that's not good enough.

I'm inclined very much to believe you with what I've seen. It takes a large fellow to walk through three feet of snow without draggin his feet. Add to that it wasn't close to any habituated road or trail? Powerful stuff.

Now, I wasn't a scientist then, but I am now. A bonafide state-licensed, professional chemical engineer. I'm also a West Point Graduate, served on the faculty there, commanded troops, and served on high level staffs. I could go on. But I'll tell you. None of that's good enough. There'll always be some fool more interested in analyzing how I might have been honestly mistaken than in what I actually saw. The fool will eventually demand proof that I wasn't mistaken. Well I can't see one for him and I don't have a body, so he walks away convinced I'm mistaken despite my reputation and credentials. Why should I bother?

Because as a scientist you must have a deep seated need to get to the bottom of this. If not on a personal level then as a proxy.

Eventually the fool may see one for himself, stop bothering me, and share my frustration when he reports his experience.

And eventually someone will drag in a body and that will be both the end and the beginning of it.

In the meantime, after you get past proving to yourself they exist, I'll be here for you.

It's not my mission to prove it to myself, If I thought it was a myth I wouldn't waste my time.

[Guest]

I am venting. So you might want to skip this post if you are a senstive skeptic.

It's really irritating to me, personally, that so many people have seen one or more, plus a bunch more who heard something realllly LOUD, or smelt a smell you can hardly describe so vile is it, or been hit with missiles, yet the skeptics don't believe it. What, am I a liar?? We are all liars? Deluded? Hallucinating? Can't tell a bear from a giant stinking bidpedal primate? Gee, thanks so much. Because, as they know, we are all morons and only "skeptics" have rational minds capable of evaluating evidence or discerning that which they or we have seen. They are special and we are like you know barely literate. Thank goodness they are here to prevent us from believing such experiences as we and others had and which have been repeated on a large scale. What hubris. Words cannot express my big giant disdain for those folks and that attitude. Ptooii! I spit on the lot of them. No offense.

Add to that, somebody posts a picture of a tree or a shadow or a barn and some jackasses ask really insulting questions. Is that supposed to be a bigfoot? Do you really think there is a bigfoot in that picture? Boy, are you stupid! Har har har. Hee haw. Draw me a red ring around it willya, cuz I don't see it. Yuck yuck yuck. Oh, and then they demand evidence from you, accusing you of holding out, lying, hoaxing, whatever crap they can think of.

I have literally posted a decently clear picture in a different online place of one actually hanging off a tree branch--off google earth street view, where they could go look at it--and do they say, "OH wow!" No--more like, " Hmm, well, it ...I don't know...". then radio silence. They can't argue so they say nothing. WHY on earth would we post pictures?

And these are most likely people who never saw one. Just betchya. So, yeah, you lose interest in discussing it, posting pictures or videos, Or even talking about it. Offering up proof is like putting a "kick me" sign on your back, more or less. So I say to them,... well, you can imagine.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Kings Canyon

[Guest]

I have literally posted a decently clear picture in a different online place of one actually hanging off a tree branch--off google earth street view, where they could go look at it--and do they say, "OH wow!" No--more like, " Hmm, well, it ...I don't know...". then radio silence. They can't argue so they say nothing. WHY on earth would we post pictures?

And these are most likely people who never saw one. Just betchya. So, yeah, you lose interest in discussing it, posting pictures or videos, Or even talking about it. Offering up proof is like putting a "kick me" sign on your back, more or less. So I say to them,... well, you can imagine.

If you can provide a link to a money shot on Google Earth Street View, why not do it? JDL has had multiple sightings and can provide verification.

[BobbyO]

^Must have hit a nerve? So counter my position without the same old same old your a skeptic and not worth my time argument.

But that's the crux of it.

If you won't ever believe what someone says where a sighting is concerned without a general level of evidence which virtually nobody can actually give for a variety of reasons and you have no issues with saying that's the bar you set in order, then what is the point in giving you our/their time ?

You're telling people to do things IE On this occasion it's counter what you said without a certain attitude, but what's the point as you won't ever turn around and say something along the lines of " Ok, thanks for sharing, that's a pretty incredible ting to have seen "

Instead you just dismiss it and say that people are lying or mis representing what they say.

It's boring me now especially when there is nothing i can do about it, and a little insulting too for me.

Sorry but I see this as a cop out. While I certainly feel sympathetic to people whom are ridiculed for nothing more than experiencing something that they may have not asked to experience? When the going gets tough the tough get going.

I think there's a big difference between that and flogging a dead horse, banging your head against a brick wall or whatever you want to call it, which it seems to be when having back and forths with skeptics on here.

Personally I don't want to spend my time trying to convince someone who can't be convinced no matter what I say, that I saw a Sasquatch, and I have no understanding of why anyone else would so for me it's not " when the going gets tough, the tough get going ", for me it's " they will never believe what I'm saying, so what's the point of even bothering "

Not sure if that saying will ever take off mainstream but you never know..

Maybe I have a alpha personality, but if I saw a no ******** Squatch.........and somebody called me "mistaken" or a "kook" or a "impressionable person". I would want to take concrete evidence and shove it straight down their gullet. But that's me.

Circumstances don't always allow that to happen though Norse, they never have for me for example.

There would be thousands of Sasquatch witnesses out there that for a number of reasons can't or won't even attempt to go and get that evidence, sometimes it could be down to finances, sometimes it could be down to what they did actually see IE an 8ft hairy man ting built like a Linebacker on steroids and they're scared, or at other times maybe they did try to find evidence after the event but by that time, there was no to the untrained eye.

It's not as straightforward as many seem to think I don't think.

As per usual, there are lots of circumstances that come into play from seeing one to getting evidence of it.

[Guest]

BS. It's simple negative reinforcement in most cases. You experience something extraordinary, share it, and get shot down by folks who are certain that you're somehow mistaken. After a while you keep it to yourself for the most part and only share with those who are sincerely interested.

Debating skeptics, IMO, is nothing more than a waste of time. At some point you simply decide that they're no longer deserving of your time and effort.

^Must have hit a nerve? So counter my position without the same old same old your a skeptic and not worth my time argument.

I can tell you that JDL is dead on. I have a friend who got burned BADLY both by a professional research group screwing up and almost getting him fired and by a bunch of mud-throwing Skeptics nattering on about their "BS detectors" and other such crap.

He wouldn't even bother thinking about reporting something now. And I can think of a few other people who wouldn't either, such as Timberghost and the Kiamichi/Honobia bunch.

[the parkie]

Norseman, the damned things exist. I've been face-to-face with an eight and a half foot tall male wondering whether or not it was going to take my head off first, or my friend's, or my brother's. But telling you that's not good enough.

Now, I wasn't a scientist then, but I am now. A bonafide state-licensed, professional chemical engineer. I'm also a West Point Graduate, served on the faculty there, commanded troops, and served on high level staffs. I could go on. But I'll tell you. None of that's good enough. There'll always be some fool more interested in analyzing how I might have been honestly mistaken than in what I actually saw. The fool will eventually demand proof that I wasn't mistaken. Well I can't see one for him and I don't have a body, so he walks away convinced I'm mistaken despite my reputation and credentials. Why should I bother?

Eventually the fool may see one for himself, stop bothering me, and share my frustration when he reports his experience.

And eventually someone will drag in a body and that will be both the end and the beginning of it.

In the meantime, after you get past proving to yourself they exist, I'll be here for you.

+1

What an excellent post. There are so many reasons why I would like to see a sasquatch and this post just adds another one.

Edited January 29, 2013 by the parkie

[Guest]

BS. It's simple negative reinforcement in most cases. You experience something extraordinary, share it, and get shot down by folks who are certain that you're somehow mistaken. After a while you keep it to yourself for the most part and only share with those who are sincerely interested.

Debating skeptics, IMO, is nothing more than a waste of time. At some point you simply decide that they're no longer deserving of your time and effort.

I personally come across this all the time. I have no reason to feel this way, but I know other witnesses that do - many.. In fact I would say the large majority.

Most witnesses first tell people who are close to them - loved ones - who they think they can tell anything to. Then, they are first treated as if its a joke. They are laughed at. Then slowly but surely they turn into the butt of the jokes within their family and circle of friends. Most of this happens before they even find a bigfoot website or researcher somewhere on the internet. It's usually after turning to their own - and being scoffed at - do they come looking for bigfoot researchers on the internet. Which, when you think about it, makes a lot of sense as to why we get so many reports that are older than a year..

One of the biggest defense mechanisms - is the "I don't care what anyone thinks!" - Why? Because as humans we do care what others think of us. We are social beings. If witnesses didn't care what we (as bigfoot researchers) think then why would they even come looking for us? They do care - but they say this because they are tired of being put down and made to feel crazy.

As bigfoot researchers we are not therapists - psychologists or psychiatrists - but we should at least try to understand what these people are going through ---- by listening to what they are saying. No, not all witnesses are seeing bigfoot but they are seeing something and as researchers - isn't it our job to figure out what it is? I know that's how I look at it.

It's a complete bore to constantly be harrangued by people who want to drag you into the "Do they or don't they exist?" debate. It impedes advanced discussion.

I actually agree with that. I have never seen one. I have been witness to some strange things, but never seen a Bigfoot and I get tired of this constant debate. LOL.

I am sorry you feel this way JDL. It took a lot of guts for you to type what you did - knowing it may not be received very well. But, I guess in the end I just want you to know - there are many people out there who feel the way you do and I wish there were some way for witnesses, who feel the way you do, to have some way to talk to each other and get the kind of support none of you can seem to get either in your day to day lives or on the internet.

Maybe some day we can all come up with a good way to be researchers and skeptics and not take out the witnesses in the process.

Just my opinion.

[JDL]

Thanks, I'm fine at this point because I know what the eventual outcome will be. In the meantime, to learn anything significant it requires establishing a trust relationship with some of the more knowledgeable people on the forum who don't openly share. It's sad, but the best information is generally passed one on one or in small groups. I only wish I had more time to devote to getting to know the best researchers.

[Guest]

It's sad, but the best information is generally passed one on one or in small groups. I only wish I had more time to devote to getting to know the best researchers.

Yep - you are right - on both counts. It is sad. But, I guess this is what the community thinks is the best answer.. LOL. I don't know. I always tell witnesses find someone you trust - and stick with them. You don't have to know "the best" - just the ones you can work with and can listen to what you're saying. That right there is half the battle. But, I bet you already know that.

[Guest mitchw]

OK, I'll bite. First off, great post from JDL. One of the things that interests me about Bigfoot is observing the humans in their stances to the phenomenon. It's interesting to see how scoffers smirk, individuals get ridiculed, or people like me who may have heard and smelled something try not to bring it up. I'll quietly have contempt for my smirking sister who can barely grasp evolution, but I also asked BFRO not to publish my report since the location was so near NYC(yes JDL, it was within a few miles of the Academy). But I also have read so many BF accounts and read several of the serious books on the subject, that I wonder why any individual thinks it's so important that 'THEY SAW ONE.' So what?

What matters is real scientific proof like a body or a peer reviewed paper whose results other scientists can then attempt to replicate. At some point BF will be accepted within the thinking community, but don't expect those resistant to Darwinian ideas to all of a sudden change their spots.

[Cotter]

Kings, can you post a link to the BF pic? Or perhaps PM me?

To add to the OP, I myself am not looking for proof, but I tell you if I got a solid pic of one, it would be sent around here via PM's pretty darn quick!

[1980squatch]

Well, it has all been said up above, and well, but I'll chip in anyway. Totally get where JDL is coming from- and what I can most relate to! But it has been over 30 years now for me and many of the rawest emotions for me are fairly muted anymore. I do not blame people for not believing I encountered a Bigfoot. It is nice it they don't think I am actually lying to them, and it does hurt some if that is their take (as opposed to it was something else, or I was hoaxed, etc). But, a sighting is not proof. A sighting may be a useful data point following proof of the species, but prior to that it is just an experience belonging only to the person having it. So Norse makes a good point on his side. But I have no burning desire to prove their existences to others, and when that does happen I have no plans to enjoy any I told you so's - it is way too late for that, moved past that long ago.

I think that skeptics and proponents engage in the give and take over various items of evidence since their percentage of belief is at least a bit changeable- say somewhere in the range of 5 to 95 percent. A newly proven hoax, or a great trialcam pic, can nudge it one way or another and that is interesting. But we are stuck at 100%. Skoftics are stuck at 0% and are only here to mess with people. I am here because I am interested in the subject and one of my life's biggest moments relates to it. So I enjoy the topics relating to sightings, DNA, where is the latest activity, bigfoot behavior and habits, etc. But, never even looked at the PGF thread...

[Guest]

At some point BF will be accepted within the thinking community.

I think this statement is wrong. The "thinking community" is our community and the scientific community and any other community that looks at the world without blinders. Ask any biologist, anthropologist or any other earth science professional and they will tell you that it is perfectly possible for Sasquatch to exist, and that they hope it does... It's the non-thinking community we have to worry about.

Take my Mom for example. I love her with all my heart, and she is a very smart woman, but she doesn't really know much about the physical world. She can bake a delicious pie, she can haggle a used car salesman down to nothing, she can balance a cheque book, she can speak two languages and a million other things that requires a good brain in her head. However, she has never had any interest in knowing anything about how the physical world works and she is very content just accepting that summers are hot and winters are cold, and she doesn't care that there are Grizzly Bears in both Siberia and North America, but no Tigers here and no Cougars there.

So when I attempt to talk with my Mom about Bigfoot the conversation goes nowhere, fast. She simply doesn't understand how Bigfoot can exist, and always reverts to the question "If they exist, why haven't we found one yet"? In her mind they don't exist until one has been found, and since one hasn't been found, why bother looking.

Unfortunately, I think my Mom is the norm, and we are the exception...

Edited January 29, 2013 by Mounty

[Guest thermalman]

As a BF proponent and sideline observer, I heartfully congratulate those who have witnessed the real deal, and have had the courage to fully disclose their encounter. It definitely can't be easy to admit to a sighting, knowing that there are many out there just salivating to verbally dissect and rape you. To skeptics and scoftics, who are quick to jump all over the witnesses, I only have one question....Were you there? Knowing that you weren't, only provides others with an insight to your decision making and judgemental skills.

[norseman]

I think there's a big difference between that and flogging a dead horse, banging your head against a brick wall or whatever you want to call it, which it seems to be when having back and forths with skeptics on here.

Personally I don't want to spend my time trying to convince someone who can't be convinced no matter what I say, that I saw a Sasquatch, and I have no understanding of why anyone else would so for me it's not " when the going gets tough, the tough get going ", for me it's " they will never believe what I'm saying, so what's the point of even bothering "

Not sure if that saying will ever take off mainstream but you never know..

But for every believer there is a path over the rainbow. There is a way to prove what you say is true. Which is the crux of this whole thread. What perplexes me is that the majority don't even contemplate that path. If something isn't working for you then you change tactics.

Circumstances don't always allow that to happen though Norse, they never have for me for example.

There would be thousands of Sasquatch witnesses out there that for a number of reasons can't or won't even attempt to go and get that evidence, sometimes it could be down to finances, sometimes it could be down to what they did actually see IE an 8ft hairy man ting built like a Linebacker on steroids and they're scared, or at other times maybe they did try to find evidence after the event but by that time, there was no to the untrained eye.

It's not as straightforward as many seem to think I don't think.

As per usual, there are lots of circumstances that come into play from seeing one to getting evidence of it.

I'm not looking for a person to do something outside of their capabilities or money situation. I understand completely that each person's situation is unique. But what I'm looking for is a overall change in philosophy within the community.

Proving to science and the "scoftics" that this is a REAL ANIMAL IS VERY IMPORTANT. It's a goal that each of us should hold dear to our hearts. If not for yourself then for other witnesses that wrestle and are tortured with what they have seen. I think people want to be taken seriously........no body can convince me otherwise that this attitude of "I don't need to prove anything" is simply a knee jerk reaction to rejection.

Instead of being forced underground in order to have a serious discussion about Sasquatch, rejection by skeptics should instead unite believers, with proof and vindication being the war cry and cause for the community.

RALLY! FIGHT!