Guest TwilightZone Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 This is as bad as the Georgia hoax as far as I'm concerned. But at least the Georgia boys admitted to the hoax when the jig was up, rather than digging it deeper. Plus they did not stretch it out five years past it's freshness date. I think this hoax is much worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mitchw Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 "This" may be much worse because samples sent in good faith to Ketchum are now likely unreliable. People sent their treasure away. Simply terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yowiie Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) That's right, the guys that sent in there samples may never have the luck of finding such evidence again I know I would be shattered Edited February 26, 2013 by yowiie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 BartloJaysThis is a complete misrepresentation of what happened and we have the email exchange to prove it. Do me a favor and contact Dr. Ketchum requesting her written permission to publish those emails (although our discretion to do so, it's a bad precedent in our opinion with expectations of privacy) and I will consolidate and have them up tonight. I would bet she'll not respond or refuse. I am pretty sure that only one party needs permission to publish e-mails. If she sent you e-mails to your Private home address and not interoffice e-mail, you can publish what ever you want. Unless you signed some kind of agreement with her. So the only thing stopping you to publish this is you. http://www.justanswer.com/law/2dtbl-legal-publish-e-mails-sent-without-permission.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernyahoo Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 "This" may be much worse because samples sent in good faith to Ketchum are now likely unreliable. People sent their treasure away. Simply terrible. Some of us didn't send all, for the very reason of replication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mitchw Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Independent replication is of the essence, SY. I fear anything with Ketchum is despoiled. Answer, Justin Smeja, Dr. Ketchum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 "This" may be much worse because samples sent in good faith to Ketchum are now likely unreliable. People sent their treasure away. Simply terrible. How so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mitchw Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Rare samples were solicited by Ketchum and Paulides. People sent them off in good faith to be tested. If those people no longer have some portion of their samples, then possible misconduct by Ketchum makes anything in her current possession unreliable. If she sent you a sample to test, what would you do with it? If a stock of Sasquatch tissue from around the continent is no longer reliable, then years of progress have been lost. Of course, Sasquatch could still be just a pile, so no harm done. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TwilightZone Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Some of us didn't send all, for the very reason of replication. I hope you are willing to let Sykes have a sample. I don't think there will ever be another scientist of his caliber looking into this phenomenon... Not for a long while at any rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernyahoo Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I actually tried to send him a sample.I sent an email to him via the instructions on their Collateral hominid web site, also sent a portion to Meldrum. Meldrum wanted to do screening for Sykes, and is using Fahrenbach's criteria " no medulla" says he....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Check Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 SY - can't tell you how happy I am to hear you have more than what you sent Ketchum... hopefully other submitters held onto some of their collection as well. I've seen a couple times in this thread a call for the submitters to join together and send material to an established, recognized name, and i hope that happens and that you are part of that effort, along with all the others. It really is a shame the way this so-called scientific study has played out, but one silver lining might be the that several researchers have been through the fiasco, and now will be more selective with the next inevitable study... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDL Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 But you think that there's a conspiracy of scientists to suppress evidence against certain scientific theories. Actually, I think it's a mattter of a great lack of courage and a great deal of arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Can it be as simple as BF is indeed something our science CAN'T interpret right now? Can it be that Melba actually came to the conclusion that what she had is indeed BF, but it's DNA doesn't relate to anything on this planet and she then filled in the blanks, because this is where I'm headed. Perhaps their DNA will simply not satisfy our current scientific requirement? This study was a fork in the road for myself. I know BF exist because I've personally seen one. I had good faith that good samples were provided, of course all the sample couldn't have been BF but SOME had to be. Was Ketchum so incompetent that she couldn't accurately document the DNA provided? I don't think so! This study was my last hope to see BF as simply another species that evolved on this planet and is completely flesh and blood. Now I don't know enough about dimensions and "angel dna" to articulate my thoughts at this moment...but there's no way a person certified in DNA forensics such as Melba could mess this up THIS badly. Perhaps BF..........IDK...don't have DNA? Maybe their DNA mimics what it comes in contact with? Just reaching here... This is for another thread but, I'm leaning toward BF is indeed something we don't and can't understand at this time. There's plenty of evidence that we've had advanced societies on this Earth before ours. Is BF something they created? Or does BF really live in another dimension? Perhaps we don't know what a "dimension" is? Sorry for derailing this thread, I'll make another... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I hope you are willing to let Sykes have a sample. I don't think there will ever be another scientist of his caliber looking into this phenomenon... Not for a long while at any rate. I think you are correct on this. I think he may be more successful for a few reasons. He has more applicable expertise in genetics, more formal scientific training, and is LESS committed to the finding of BF. The last bit may sound odd, but I think one of the reasons MK got in over her head is her drive to prove this was real. In the end I think it may have taken away her objectivity. With Sykes, he already has his reputation, has his position at Oxford, has other projects ongoing. If it fails, I don't think he will be too concerned, as long as he took the proper scientific approach. If it works, he will write a paper or two, probably a book, and go on to speak about it as conferences and seminars. I don't think it will change his life, just the presentation he gives at meetings. I wonder though if MKs paper has not sparked science a bit. She may have gotten it wrong, but in the process started people thinking of the correct way to do it. I think many (myself included) did not appreciate the difficulties in this whole study. I watched the Decoding Neanderthal Nova special that someone recommended a few days ago (thanks!), and I don't think I fully appreciated the difficulties in getting the Neanderthal genome - it took him four year to sort it out, with a lot of expertise in the field! I was nieve in my own thinking about this - simple sequencing of the nuDNA was only the first of many steps to creating the BF genome, given the probable similarity to modern humans, and almost guaranteed bacterial/fungal contamination. Perhaps that the high Q30 scores were not because they were almost pure BF dna, but almost pure contaminant (I am not familiar enough with the Q30 scores to know if this is possible with a variety of contaminants). This could explain the very small amount of "human like' dna in their final contigs - they took what they had and filled in the rest to align the the human template they were using for assembly. Perhaps their 30X coverage, was really only 0.3%, if only 1% of the DNA was BF (I got this idea from the Nova special where they stated only a very small fraction of the DNA was from Neanderthal). They may in the end need to sequence much more deeply to get the whole genome, and use some type of filtering algorithm to find the "needles in the haystack". Perhaps then these needles can be assembled into something science can agree is biologically likely to be the BF genome. Food for thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) Can it be as simple as BF is indeed something our science CAN'T interpret right now? Can it be that Melba actually came to the conclusion that what she had is indeed BF, but it's DNA doesn't relate to anything on this planet and she then filled in the blanks, because this is where I'm headed. Perhaps their DNA will simply not satisfy our current scientific requirement? This study was a fork in the road for myself. I know BF exist because I've personally seen one. I had good faith that good samples were provided, of course all the sample couldn't have been BF but SOME had to be. Was Ketchum so incompetent that she couldn't accurately document the DNA provided? I don't think so! This study was my last hope to see BF as simply another species that evolved on this planet and is completely flesh and blood. Now I don't know enough about dimensions and "angel dna" to articulate my thoughts at this moment...but there's no way a person certified in DNA forensics such as Melba could mess this up THIS badly. Perhaps BF..........IDK...don't have DNA? Maybe their DNA mimics what it comes in contact with? Just reaching here... This is for another thread but, I'm leaning toward BF is indeed something we don't and can't understand at this time. There's plenty of evidence that we've had advanced societies on this Earth before ours. Is BF something they created? Or does BF really live in another dimension? Perhaps we don't know what a "dimension" is? Sorry for derailing this thread, I'll make another... Not a derail at all and the question on my mind...as the hybrid theory doesn't fly with conventional evolution, and the religious/ufo and/or inter-dimensional rumors/interviews seems to be what is believed by many that remain ardent supporters (do they still?)? That is a weird way to put it, as I don't think any significant review of her work has been done other than here,.but is promised....and if comments here are any indication it fell flat on it's face.....and yet as you suggest there are many still "down" with the conclusions. I feel that is what they are thinking, similar to your comments above.....and I have seen reference to the single, double strand DNA as evidence of BF weird DNA...(but contrast to immediate geneticists reaction...this must be contamination and is typical.)... It is hard to believe she could "mess it up so badly" and yet many are saying she did.....it seems she may have, as the opportunities are many to make a wrong turn....and other easy hurdles tripped her up.. To me they are some kind of very close relative to us, in the fossil record if not genomes..and it is hard to imagine that in 15,000 years no original species remain.....and so many human haplotypes in the mDNA...but I don't know...... It also seems they aren't just human subspecies either, if Neanderthal aren't a subspecies.....but, that is based on field observations..not the DNA... so.. I am confused..and the missteps surrounding other bits and pieces of this effort leave me thinking...the worst really.... I hope Sykes forges ahead in a timely fashion Edited February 26, 2013 by apehuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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