The Ketchum Report (Continued)

[Guest]

One thing is true, Casey Mullins and Robin Lynne both are bad writers. Especially unnerving, since they both have been listed as editors on the various websites.

No telling who made this last minute FAZE website..seems as likely a detractor as the infamous Casey Mullins....This website ( and online comment) makes it too easy to follow up on MK's unverified claims... b/c of course Casey Mullins is the editor of FAZE-JAMEZ in which MK says her paper passed peer review...

True, that means diddlysquat, since peer-review is built on reputations of Journals and JAMEZ had none, but it does mean a whole lot if in fact Casey Mullns doesn't exist, or is a friend, or Robin Lynne...

Maybe someone made this website to take her peer-review claim to it's final destination..either a lie, or true...prove it I guess...and this website the bait...? Because if not, it appears MK can't recall a lot about recent events or her own statements. I am not sure which is worse, and it seems like it's "all bad."

I feel like the time I spend in this thread too much on this subject now. Until an upload to GenBank occurs, or legitimate reviews, there is nothing to salvage from her effort IMO....

Edited March 7, 2013 by apehuman

[Guest]

OTLS! has a series of updates and the most recent discussing the "FAZE" website creation contains this statement:

"Even Scholastica has SOME standards; possibly they were shocked to their senses by a “preserve all records†notice served on them by the law firm representing a certain sponsor of bigfoot research."

That is quite a claim, and not informative enough or verified.

I guess I will be back here a few more times to see this smoldering question ignite or go out.

Edited March 7, 2013 by apehuman

[Guest BartloJays]

So reading the thread and finally putting some of this together. Tyler keeps saying the Samples that Melba and they have are the same.

I am not looking to blame anyone here for anything. I am opening the case for reasonable doubt about Tyler's claim that the pieces are the same. Since he is in here claiming they are the same and that his tests show bear while Melba’s do not. I do understand that it is believed they were not hoodwinked by Justin or that Justin had no reason to lie. Well the same can be said for Melba. But as one looks at the whole situation Justin has reasons just as Melba does. So this is what I found out between several websites and blogs. So here is the breakdown I could come up with.

Well, that was a lot of work for nothing

Your case is built on “unreasonable†doubt, as you’re willing to entertain accepting someone’s desperate claim, no matter how irrational, as a frantic reaction to being confronted with the reality of conflicting results. The same person who prophetically predicted what those results would be in mirror circumstances over one year ago. The same person who has failed to release her data for comparative analysis and rigorous scientific review.

My answers to CathMcMillan in Bold:

October 2010 2 Weeks after the shooting Derek convinced Justin to go back to the Sight to look for evidence. The were digging in the snow and they found some pieces.

Whoever wrote that was in error as it was almost 5 weeks later, November 12, 2010

So here Tyler and Bart Claim that Melba never asked for a sample of DNA. Again we are taking one person’s word on this.

Actually, we’re taking Bart’s, Tyler’s, Justin’s, Justin’s wife, Derek, Wally’s and Melba’s word on it.

We are expected to believe Justin because he took a lie detector test.

As many people have explained the test is flawed. It was done in a place where there was distractions.

Some issues I have: Question 8 of the Lie detector.

8.) Is the entire “Sierra Kills†story a Hoax? He answers no and it is truthful but the wording said Entire. I think the Question then a bit later on not directly should have been are any parts of the “Sierra Kills†story a hoax or a lie. You usually ask similar questions at different parts of the questioning to see if he has maintained the turth.

We know that some issues were already around with the Sierra Project Justin and Melba so the questions are not from an independent source. I am not saying Justin is lying but I am bringing up doubt about the issue for a reason to doubt the validity of the claim the samples are the same.

So you have a problem with polygraph questions, some people have a problem with the polygraph process period and considerate it junk science. Just because I’m impressed he passed it, knowing he didn’t think he could lie and beat it, doesn’t mean “you†or anybody else has to be impressed by it. I think people misunderstand, if you ask me, “Bart, why do you believe him?†and I answer, listing the poly as one reason that impresses me, I’m answering the question from “my†perspective, not pushing the idea you should be blown away by him passing a poly. I challenge you to please grab the post poly interviews I did, in which not only did I put him passing the polygraph in perspective from an external viewpoint but preached caution as well.

So Tyler you can not confirm beyond reasonable doubt that what Justin gave you is the correct piece. The piece you received according to your own writing has about a 7 months time frame where you were not in control of the samples. Then you obtained the sample it was not sent to the lab till 2012. It is also confirmed that Bart had to have the Dr. Send a Swab kit because his first Swab was not good. So this could lead to Bart not storing the Material properly or handling the sample correctly as well. I am not blaming Bart just adding that it is possible that he didn't handle the samples correctly. As the general public we do not know.

That’s correct John, and been said repeatedly in the timelines that the frozen samples tested are from 2012, and the salted tissue was out of Justin’s custody in July of 2011 (meaning he would’ve had to switch samples prior to July 2011). I think considering what’s “reasonable†or in this case, “unreasonable,†doubt, Tyler has never felt the need to convey anything other than address misinformation…kinda like what I’m doing right now.

Yes that’s correct again, unlike Melba Ketchum, I attempted to swab Justin because our lab needed his DNA to see if it matches the mtDNA and nDNA …unlike Melba Ketchum’s “labs.†That’s correct. According to the lab director, moldy swabs aren’t the most common but it does happen, but since we got Justin’s DNA swab in on the second round, forgive me for absolutely not recognizing any relevance of the question or suggestion?

The only thing Sierra Project's DNA test can prove is that the sample you had was from a bear. It can not prove or disprove Melba’s as being the same.

I understand you and several have issues with Melba, but the timeline and the months who knows what could have happened. You expect us to take Justin's word over Melba's. Just Like Melba Justin is in it for something he said he was promises things from Melba and he didn't get that. Also he is working on a Movie with Ro and a book. So he is also looking to make money off this. Any way I just don't think that one can use the "Sierra Kills" samples that Project had tested as absolute proof that Melba's should have came back Bear as well, or that hers are contaminated.

Wrong, I’d contend we’ve proved to most rational thinkers and those with the ability to perform basic math, not only the timeline, which you’ve attempted to mangle, but why a guy (rather you believe him or not) who’s supposedly terrified of prosecution would sabotage himself to make it appear he hoaxed and yet stay in the bigfoot community. They are smart enough to know, the “switching samples†claim was a reaction to our conflict in results and if “prosecution†is a concern, in Justin’s shoes you say you hoaxed and it’s done…. regardless of what her tests show as what person would risk going to jail because they want to score points in the bigfoot community?

I hope Justin does recoup a few bucks in both the book and documentary, however, not only did he NOT initiate either project, but the likelihood he makes more than 1k or two is not even 50-50. I’m happy doing the documentary because I think based on what’s happened there now things have gotten very interesting and am grateful someone with Ro’s talent is documenting it all visually to share it with those who are interested. As lead investigator, I’m not planning on being paid as I’ve never made a penny off bigfooting (I challenge anyone to say differently). If the documentary becomes an independent overnight sensation, wonderful I’m sure Ro will throw a few bucks my way as a thank you. If not, great, I’ll make him buy me lunch every time I take him out in the woods.

You don’t know what her results are because she hasn’t released the data, you only know what she’s claimed and used smoke and mirrors to give the illusion of substantiation. That’s a fact and I challenge you to prove me wrong and present data that will convince even any one of our “in-house†geneticists here that are somewhat proponents and were receptive, actually willing to give her the benefit of the doubt..

She knows it

Oh and BTW Cathiee, Mrs. Mcmillan, however you prefer you’re addressed, a few questions for YOU now if you will because hypocritically accusing Tyler and myself of not being transparent, looking to profit etc...is so yesterday[/font][/b][/size]

Do you feel Melba has released enough data to substantiate her hypothesis and claims? What’s your honest assessment of the presentation methods and contents thereof, of her paper?

How long do you plan on defending Melba without her releasing the lab reports and data so it can be appropriately parsed by qualified others? Do you think “Casey Mullins†is a real person, and if so, why? Cathiee, are you Casey Mullins?

JK on the last one as the person impersonating him is actually not a bad writer.

Edited March 8, 2013 by WV FOOTER
Edit Content

[Guest]

Bart,

I am not Arguing the case that Justin shot 2 bigfoots So If i can accept that as true. I can also accept that Melba's paper and her testing is true. And you both got 2 different results It is obvious Justin has issues with Melba as do you and the Sierra Project.

I pointed out and I think I showed enough Evidence that we do not know that what Justin handed you was the same thing that Melba got. You can not 100% be sure that what you have is what Melba has. So comparing your results to Melba's is not accurate.

I have stated yes i would like Melba to release more information.

Also you didn't answer my Question:

What if the boots come up and verify what Melba's mtdna and nuDNA showed what then?

Edited March 7, 2013 by CathMcmillan

[yowiie]

Well, that was a lot of work for nothing

Your case is built on “unreasonable†doubt, as you’re willing to entertain accepting someone’s desperate claim, no matter how irrational, as a frantic reaction to being confronted with the reality of conflicting results. The same person who prophetically predicted what those results would be in mirror circumstances over one year ago. The same person who has failed to release her data for comparative analysis and rigorous scientific review.

My answers to CathMcMillan in Bold:

October 2010 2 Weeks after the shooting Derek convinced Justin to go back to the Sight to look for evidence. The were digging in the snow and they found some pieces.

Whoever wrote that was in error as it was almost 5 weeks later, November 12, 2010

So here Tyler and Bart Claim that Melba never asked for a sample of DNA. Again we are taking one person’s word on this.

Actually, we’re taking Bart’s, Tyler’s, Justin’s, Justin’s wife, Derek, Wally’s and Melba’s word on it.

We are expected to believe Justin because he took a lie detector test.

As many people have explained the test is flawed. It was done in a place where there was distractions.

Some issues I have: Question 8 of the Lie detector.

8.) Is the entire “Sierra Kills†story a Hoax? He answers no and it is truthful but the wording said Entire. I think the Question then a bit later on not directly should have been are any parts of the “Sierra Kills†story a hoax or a lie. You usually ask similar questions at different parts of the questioning to see if he has maintained the turth.

We know that some issues were already around with the Sierra Project Justin and Melba so the questions are not from an independent source. I am not saying Justin is lying but I am bringing up doubt about the issue for a reason to doubt the validity of the claim the samples are the same.

So you have a problem with polygraph questions, some people have a problem with the polygraph process period and considerate it junk science. Just because I’m impressed he passed it, knowing he didn’t think he could lie and beat it, doesn’t mean “you†or anybody else has to be impressed by it. I think people misunderstand, if you ask me, “Bart, why do you believe him?†and I answer, listing the poly as one reason that impresses me, I’m answering the question from “my†perspective, not pushing the idea you should be blown away by him passing a poly. I challenge you to please grab the post poly interviews I did, in which not only did I put him passing the polygraph in perspective from an external viewpoint but preached caution as well.

So Tyler you can not confirm beyond reasonable doubt that what Justin gave you is the correct piece. The piece you received according to your own writing has about a 7 months time frame where you were not in control of the samples. Then you obtained the sample it was not sent to the lab till 2012. It is also confirmed that Bart had to have the Dr. Send a Swab kit because his first Swab was not good. So this could lead to Bart not storing the Material properly or handling the sample correctly as well. I am not blaming Bart just adding that it is possible that he didn't handle the samples correctly. As the general public we do not know.

That’s correct John, and been said repeatedly in the timelines that the frozen samples tested are from 2012, and the salted tissue was out of Justin’s custody in July of 2011 (meaning he would’ve had to switch samples prior to July 2011). I think considering what’s “reasonable†or in this case, “unreasonable,†doubt, Tyler has never felt the need to convey anything other than address misinformation…kinda like what I’m doing right now.

Yes that’s correct again, unlike Melba Ketchum, I attempted to swab Justin because our lab needed his DNA to see if it matches the mtDNA and nDNA …unlike Melba Ketchum’s “labs.†That’s correct. According to the lab director, moldy swabs aren’t the most common but it does happen, but since we got Justin’s DNA swab in on the second round, forgive me for absolutely not recognizing any relevance of the question or suggestion?

The only thing Sierra Project's DNA test can prove is that the sample you had was from a bear. It can not prove or disprove Melba’s as being the same.

I understand you and several have issues with Melba, but the timeline and the months who knows what could have happened. You expect us to take Justin's word over Melba's. Just Like Melba Justin is in it for something he said he was promises things from Melba and he didn't get that. Also he is working on a Movie with Ro and a book. So he is also looking to make money off this. Any way I just don't think that one can use the "Sierra Kills" samples that Project had tested as absolute proof that Melba's should have came back Bear as well, or that hers are contaminated.

Wrong, I’d contend we’ve proved to most rational thinkers and those with the ability to perform basic math, not only the timeline, which you’ve attempted to mangle, but why a guy (rather you believe him or not) who’s supposedly terrified of prosecution would sabotage himself to make it appear he hoaxed and yet stay in the bigfoot community. They are smart enough to know, the “switching samples†claim was a reaction to our conflict in results and if “prosecution†is a concern, in Justin’s shoes you say you hoaxed and it’s done…. regardless of what her tests show as what person would risk going to jail because they want to score points in the bigfoot community?

I hope Justin does recoup a few bucks in both the book and documentary, however, not only did he NOT initiate either project, but the likelihood he makes more than 1k or two is not even 50-50. I’m happy doing the documentary because I think based on what’s happened there now things have gotten very interesting and am grateful someone with Ro’s talent is documenting it all visually to share it with those who are interested. As lead investigator, I’m not planning on being paid as I’ve never made a penny off bigfooting (I challenge anyone to say differently). If the documentary becomes an independent overnight sensation, wonderful I’m sure Ro will throw a few bucks my way as a thank you. If not, great, I’ll make him buy me lunch every time I take him out in the woods.

You don’t know what her results are because she hasn’t released the data, you only know what she’s claimed and used smoke and mirrors to give the illusion of substantiation. That’s a fact and I challenge you to prove me wrong and present data that will convince even any one of our “in-house†geneticists here that are somewhat proponents and were receptive, actually willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.. She knows it [/font][/b][/size]

Oh and BTW Cathiee, Mrs. Mcmillan, however you prefer you’re addressed, a few questions for YOU now if you will because hypocritically accusing Tyler and myself of not being transparent, looking to profit etc...is so yesterday

Do you feel Melba has released enough data to substantiate her hypothesis and claims? What’s your honest assessment of the presentation methods and contents thereof, of her paper?

How long do you plan on defending Melba without her releasing the lab reports and data so it can be appropriately parsed by qualified others? Do you think “Casey Mullins†is a real person, and if so, why? Cathiee, are you Casey Mullins?

Edited March 8, 2013 by WV FOOTER
objectional content

[Guest]

Actually, he did answer that question.

[Guest BartloJays]

Bart,

I am not Arguing the case that Justin shot 2 bigfoots So If i can accept that as true. I can also accept that Melba's paper and her testing is true. And you both got 2 different results It is obvious Justin has issues with Melba as do you and the Sierra Project.

I pointed out and I think I showed enough Evidence that we do not know that what Justin handed you was the same thing that Melba got. You can not 100% be sure that what you have is what Melba has. So comparing your results to Melba's is not accurate.

I have stated yes i would like Melba to release more information.

Also you didn't answer my Question:

What if the boots come up and verify what Melba's mtdna and nuDNA showed what then?

On the boots I did answer your question (read carefully now), matter of fact, I answered all of your questions and you've failed to answer any of mine.

Of course you're not arguing the case that Justin shot 2 bigfoots, if you were, Melba is a fraud....period.

However... anyone has a right to question if he shot two bigfoots as currently there's no substantiating physical evidence to confirm the shootings. That's the current reality and even Justin understands that.

Edited March 7, 2013 by BartloJays

[yowiie]

Bartlo

" Do you think Casey Mullins is a real person, and if so, why? Cathiee, are you Casey Mullins?"

You may have hit the nail on the head

[Guest BartloJays]

Bartlo You may have hit the nail on the head

Thanks bud, wasn't in the mood for "hammering" today though

[Guest]

Actually, he did answer that question.

At the time I wrote mine he did not

Edited by CathMcmillan, Today, 01:29 PM

Look at his edit time:

Edited by BartloJays, Today, 01:45 PM

Bart went back and edit the post and all the answers so NO he back edited his response to try to make me look bad

[Cotter]

Holy Quoteberg batman!

[Guest]

Also apparently Bart can did not look at the sources for all the information.

Bart, this has nothing to do with transparency on your end.

This has to do with Tyler and you saying the samples are the same. When it is possible they are not. You can not 100% be sure they are. You both were not in control of the samples for a good period of time before you got them

End of Story.

[Guest BartloJays]

At the time I wrote mine he did not

Edited by CathMcmillan, Today, 01:29 PM

Look at his edit time:

Edited by BartloJays, Today, 01:45 PM

Bart went back and edit the post and all the answers so NO he back edited his response to try to make me look bad

Uh Cathiee that part wasn't edited, it's always been there, "it's so yesterday" (3 words) were added. You might want to read a little more carefully as this is becoming a pattern we're all seeing here Cathiee

[Guest]

Uh, no, that's not what happened. I've been watching this thread the whole time. Bart's first response was only the first paragraph of his more expanded message. Then you responded to the expanded message, even noting points from it, in the same post in which you said he had not answered the boots question.

[Guest]

I have been watching the thread as well. But you know the BOLD is a bit hard to read. So is posting bold your way of Hammering me I guess?

Oh what pattern are you seeing Bart?

Anyway... I still stand my statement you have no idea what happen with the samples for a certain period of time. So again you can not be 100% sure that what Justin gave you was the same that Melba had. Based on your own timeline you presented in your own blog.

Edited March 7, 2013 by CathMcmillan