Skeptics Turned Believer, And Why?

[Guest]

However, I keep reminding myself that critical thinking is a skill that seems to be discouraged in today's society. Critical thinking isn't just determining that the other party may be mistaken, it is also being willing to admit that you might be mistaken as well.

Damned straight.

i see. i thought u were saying u were a believer and now turning skeptical.

No, if anything, as I've learned and experienced more, I've become more skeptical of claims than I was before.

[Drew]

However, I keep reminding myself that critical thinking is a skill that seems to be discouraged in today's society. Critical thinking isn't just determining that the other party may be mistaken, it is also being willing to admit that you might be mistaken as well.

Damned straight.

So now you are saying you could be mistaken? I thought you said you were either looking at apes, or lying.

Yet you ridicule me for saying you are mistaken.

This does not compute.

[Guest]

Sure it dose. I have used critical thinking in combination with my own senses to determine what I have seen and experienced. You don't like that so you suggest I'm not using critical thinking. You're wrong, I'm right. It's really pretty simple.

Either because of an inability to think clearly and argue logically or because you're being actively inflammatory, you're conflating my suggestion that we, in general, should use our brains critically and be prepared to accept when we're wrong with me saying I think I am, which I do not and no reasonable person in my postion would. I can't explain your motives, just wonder at them.

[Martin]

I've seen evidence they use cinderblock to hunt. And no, they don't throw them at their prey lol. Here's what I found.

Along side a heavily traveled game trail there is a downed tree about 2 ft in diameter that parallels the trail. The cinderblock is (and still is but the new one is full sized, it was a half size one when first noticed) placed on the other side of the downed tree away from the trail. Once in place the rest is easy. Hide, deer approaches log on trail, spook deer, deer runs and jumps over the downed log, deers leg goes into cinderblock hole, deer leg breaks, dinner time.

I figured since I can't get one to sit still or come out into the open for a photo-op, I'll study their hunting techniques.

Sounds like a violent event. Was there blood on the block? The trail must have been torn as it must have been hard for bigfoot to hold the deer while he put it's leg in the block.

[daveedoe]

I remain a skeptic after having experienced vocals from across a lake once, three times somthing outside my tent other than deer and bear. Ive had deer and bears outside my tent by the way. Seen foot prints in the snow not human in snow shoes or any animal.

All these things I can't explain.

Somehow without seeing the Bigfoot I know it was there. But the crazy thing is I remain a skeptic till I see one with my two eyes.

[Guest DWA]

^^^Only way to be.

I can go online and find out what thousands of animals and plants look like that I may never see with my own two eyes, and vast amounts of detail about how they live.

This one?

One halfway decent film, poisoned for me by the reception it got and not the film's fault; a lot of blurs and blobs; and lots and lots of reports.

It's unproven for me until I can do with this primate what I can do with all the ones I "know" about, but have never seen in person.

Or until I see one in person.

[Squatchy McSquatch]

Not believing what your senses tell you is its own peculiar little fantasy world.

Not believing, or questioning, what your senses tell you is skepticism.

But as a skeptic you already know that.

[salubrious]

Sal, sorry if this question should get asked somewhere else, but if they were sitting down, how can you know they were 10ft and 8ft tall respectively ?

I could see their legs, and the tall one was 6' high seated. (And only a foot from my passenger door as I passed it.) given the proportions of its legs, it was easily ten feet.

http://www.ted.com/t..._our_minds.html

Suggest you watch this if you think hallucinations are 'some fleeting event'.

I'm not nor did I claim to know something about hallucinations. But a licensed psychiatrist did (not that it makes any difference to me, I know what I saw and I don't do drugs, drink and I was not sleep deprived in any way) so you will have to talk to her about it.

[BobbyO]

Thanks for clarifying

[Guest WesT]

Sounds like a violent event. Was there blood on the block? The trail must have been torn as it must have been hard for bigfoot to hold the deer while he put it's leg in the block.

My fault Martin, I didn't explain it well enough. Picture in your mind a 2ft diameter log lying on the ground and parallel to a game trail. One side of the downed tree faces the game trail, the other side is away from the game trail. Place a cinderblock on the side of the downed tree that faces away from the game trail where the deer cannot see it as they move by. Hide nearby. As deer walk past, spook them so they jump over the log. When they jump over the log to avoid the percieved danger, their front or back leg goes down inside the hole of the ciderblock and the forward momentum causes the deers leg to fracture or break. Sorry for not explaining it very well.

[Guest]

However, I keep reminding myself that critical thinking is a skill that seems to be discouraged in today's society.

Critical thinking is not just discouraged today: it is not taught. Not at all. I work in IT (large enterprise infrastructure stuff) and am one of the "old ones" of IT. I do a lot of problem fixing, trouble shooting, etc. In working with the "younger" staff when solving issues, I see a complete lack of an undertanding and ability to apply critical thinking in solving problems. They just don't think in a manner that will allow them to examine data critically, searching for the nuggets of truth in the chaff (to mix a couple of metaphors). I find myself teaching them basic skills in how to approach a problem, how to look at the data that is presented and visible, and how to collect the data that might be hidden or "invisible" but is needed to solve the problem. It is gratifying to see the "lights go on" when they understand what I am showing them, but it is tiresome to repeatedly have to teach the same things to a different set of people on each new problem. (Although it is a form of job security...)

[Guest]

Sounds like a violent event. Was there blood on the block? The trail must have been torn as it must have been hard for bigfoot to hold the deer while he put it's leg in the block.

My fault Martin, I didn't explain it well enough. Picture in your mind a 2ft diameter log lying on the ground and parallel to a game trail. One side of the downed tree faces the game trail, the other side is away from the game trail. Place a cinderblock on the side of the downed tree that faces away from the game trail where the deer cannot see it as they move by. Hide nearby. As deer walk past, spook them so they jump over the log. When they jump over the log to avoid the percieved danger, their front or back leg goes down inside the hole of the ciderblock and the forward momentum causes the deers leg to fracture or break. Sorry for not explaining it very well.

What makes you think that a Bigfoot put it there? What makes you think they use it for hunting deer? Have you actually seen this or found deer parts nearby?

[Guest]

I don't think I could articulate my own take on skepticism any better than DWA. I think it's that type of skeptic that the bigfoot search/debate needs in order to keep it honest and legitimate.

Salubruious and Midnight Owl, thanks for your stories, that was exactly what I was looking to read about.

[Midnight Owl]

I didn't hear it ohiobill, it landed less than 10 feet in front of us in the water! The creek and the bank was clear all the way back to the brushline where I heard the stirring and a partial face in my Q-beam about 5 minutes before....

[WSA]

However, I keep reminding myself that critical thinking is a skill that seems to be discouraged in today's society.

Critical thinking is not just discouraged today: it is not taught. Not at all. I work in IT (large enterprise infrastructure stuff) and am one of the "old ones" of IT. I do a lot of problem fixing, trouble shooting, etc. In working with the "younger" staff when solving issues, I see a complete lack of an undertanding and ability to apply critical thinking in solving problems. They just don't think in a manner that will allow them to examine data critically, searching for the nuggets of truth in the chaff (to mix a couple of metaphors). I find myself teaching them basic skills in how to approach a problem, how to look at the data that is presented and visible, and how to collect the data that might be hidden or "invisible" but is needed to solve the problem. It is gratifying to see the "lights go on" when they understand what I am showing them, but it is tiresome to repeatedly have to teach the same things to a different set of people on each new problem. (Although it is a form of job security...)

Amen to that brother. As a practicing trial lawyer, who has also sat on a captial murder jury, I can attest to the truth of your experience. Thing is, in an increasingly virtual world, spatial skills atrophy. I don't know the neurological explanation, but for some reason those who work with their hands or engage with the physical landscape have a much higher problem solving ability. Just my unscientific observation, but one that seems to bear up, from my experience. I've seen here sometimes an incomprehensible inability to find useful information in the sighting reports. These are chock-a-block with information for the critical reader, while the reaction from some is "ho-hum." Really....? Those folks must have a very hard time negotiating the world of people, and I for sure don't want them working on my brakes!