Bigfoot Research--Still No Evidence (Continued)

[Guest DWA]

What a joke! You really don't understand what you read, do you.

Oh, I just got one of the most reliable signs I get here that I do. [book button]

Along with the pretty obvious markers that you either don't yourself, or just don't bother to read in the first place. [book button]

[Guest Tontar]

Norseman, well said, and hat's off to you. Good luck, like I said. I'm not sure which skeptics are against the pro-kill guys, maybe I'm not in that loop. I figure the only way bigfoot will be proven as a real thing is if a body is presented for examination. Just like every other animal has had to suffer for recognition. And contrary to another common myth, I guarantee you that skeptics will not protest the existence of bigfoot if one is laying on an examination table!

Seems like you have your head pretty well screwed on straight, for a proponent. :-) I hope you bag one and put it all in perspective. If you do, don't freak out, leave it, and come back later to get samples. That doesn't work. Take the head at the very least.

[Guest LarryP]

It's not that single quote, it is how you separate people into "categories" you have labeled as skeptics, true skeptics, pseudo skeptics, and so on. You did the division, you provided the labels, and you also provided the expectations of the people falling under those headings.

A perfect example of intellectual dishonesty......

All that matters is my quote.

[kbhunter]

OK, here's the deal. I know there are a few people here who know me very well, most don't so what I about to say won't mean a hill of beans. But the fact of the matter is this. The area where the tree bends happens to be within 100 yards of where my wife saw a BF. I myself have caught glimpses in the same area, but she got a full visual only 50 yards away. To say she was in shock is an understatement. I was actually standing beside her with my back to the area and she said it stepped around a tree and she sawi it and couldn't say a word. She pointed and her eyes were huge, finally she said something I can;t repeat here. I spun around and didn't see it, as it stepped back into the trees but I did see the limbs move and heard it walking off through the thicket.

There has been much more than just this and anyone who wants to read it it is here:

http://bigfootforums...counters-in-ga/

I have been around these things now for a few years, what I do know for sure is they are real. I also know for some it will take more than what I or anyone else says and that is cool. As long as there is a mutual respect between the ones that know, don't know for sure but think they are real and the skeptics that won;t believe until there is a body, I can deal with it..

KB

[Guest Tontar]

I have been around these things now for a few years, what I do know for sure is they are real. I also know for some it will take more than what I or anyone else says and that is cool. As long as there is a mutual respect between the ones that know, don't know for sure but think they are real and the skeptics that won;t believe until there is a body, I can deal with it..

Nicely said. And by the way, buy your wife a camera for gosh sakes! ;-)

A perfect example of intellectual dishonesty......

All that matters is my quote.

Yeah, whatever. Most people complain when others quote mine to edit out the larger context. You seem to want to quote mine yourself and edit out the larger context. As you wish.

For what it's worth, I always get a chuckle when people fling the intellectual dishonesty phrase around. I know that it's long hand for calling people liars, and I also know what it means when people get so uppity that they find the need to call people liars.

[norseman]

Norseman, well said, and hat's off to you. Good luck, like I said. I'm not sure which skeptics are against the pro-kill guys, maybe I'm not in that loop. I figure the only way bigfoot will be proven as a real thing is if a body is presented for examination. Just like every other animal has had to suffer for recognition. And contrary to another common myth, I guarantee you that skeptics will not protest the existence of bigfoot if one is laying on an examination table!

Seems like you have your head pretty well screwed on straight, for a proponent. :-) I hope you bag one and put it all in perspective. If you do, don't freak out, leave it, and come back later to get samples. That doesn't work. Take the head at the very least.

Operation Persistence is catching a lot of flak and I wish it wouldn't......I listened to Bipto's audio at the conference and I just shook my head yes through alot of it, especially the whole need for a type specimen, conservation, etc.....

As far as a kill site, I'm told by many in the community that Bigfoot Army will hunt me down and rip me to shreds.........Todd Standing claims that if he had a team of Navy SEALs with him and he killed one no one would get out alive..........

Well.......If I kill one and they try to push me off of my kill, they better do just that.........kill me. That sounds like bravado on a online forum, but I'm deadly serious. I'm scared of many things but dying in the forest that I love isn't one of them. I will be sending out as many 500 grains of love as I possible can while I draw a breath. And they better not be standing in the way of that........

I love skeptics, they make the community keep it real. But I just cannot convey to Dmaker and others enough that you cannot throw the baby out with the bath water. Most evidence is pooey..........some of it is eye brow raising and just a kernel of it is JAW DROPPING. The tracks I saw were jaw dropping.......... I would draw a comparison to the first time I saw a grizzly bear track in mud in the Selkirks. The hair stands up on the back of your neck, your eyes see more clearly, your breath comes faster, your heart races. Fear mixed with respect as you observe a trackway...........a calling card. Something that says "I passed here.........this is my domain, I'm big, see my tracks?."

I'm not a 100 percent proponent...........I cannot look you in the eyes and tell you they exist.....why? Because I've never seen one. All I can do is tell you with honesty that I have seen something very rare and very special that would suggest something exists out there that we don't know about. Something makes tracks, and tracks generally do not lie..........unless of course they fit one of my red flag parameters. Or in my case deal with snow depth's that are just not explainable other than what it was........ a giant man barefoot or bigfoot.

[Guest DWA]

Wood knocks.......I think a lot of wood knocks are simply people calling back and forth to each other...........kinda like during elk rut with a hunter heavy area. Again, where your at matters...........if it's at the edge of a road complex or a campground? Red flag.

Tracks are most compelling for me, especially when they do stuff that isn't within human range. Again, if the tracks are super long un human stride length? But they are going right down the center of a well traveled road? Red flag. Or they make a big loop and end up at a road? Red flag. If they are remote? ? ? ? What the frick made them?

Well, I don't give either of those more than a yellow flag. "Red" means "toss it." Animals use our roads and trails for the same reasons we do. Here's one trackway that I don't think even is yellow. How'd a person do this? (And note they weren't all in the road.) http://www.bfro.net/...rt.asp?id=31176 And I have read wood knock reports from campgrounds that happened under circumstances I couldn't toss out.

What one must avoid is the naïve tendencies to (1) posit a "mundane" explanation that defies probability (a bigfoot-skeptic specialty) and (2) believe that any single piece of evidence is worth much without followup that generates more evidence.

Edited April 6, 2013 by DWA

[Guest Tontar]

Here's one trackway that I don't think even is yellow. How'd a person do this? (And note they weren't all in the road.)

You do remember Wallace's method of leaving long strides? Tie a rope to a car or truck, and let it tow you at a fast enough speed where you can moonwalk with a super long stride. Considering that the distance between tracks seems to be pretty huge compared to the length of the feet, the footprint layer was either super long legged with proportionally tiny feet, or it was moving pretty fast to make such long strides. Since the tracks are down the middle of the road, my guess is they were towed while trotting.

[norseman]

Wood knocks.......I think a lot of wood knocks are simply people calling back and forth to each other...........kinda like during elk rut with a hunter heavy area. Again, where your at matters...........if it's at the edge of a road complex or a campground? Red flag.

Tracks are most compelling for me, especially when they do stuff that isn't within human range. Again, if the tracks are super long un human stride length? But they are going right down the center of a well traveled road? Red flag. Or they make a big loop and end up at a road? Red flag. If they are remote? ? ? ? What the frick made them?

Well, I don't give either of those more than a yellow flag. "Red" means "toss it." Animals use our roads and trails for the same reasons we do. Here's one trackway that I don't think even is yellow. How'd a person do this? (And note they weren't all in the road.) http://www.bfro.net/...rt.asp?id=31176 And I have read wood knock reports from campgrounds that happened under circumstances I couldn't toss out.

What one must avoid is the naïve tendencies to (1) posit a "mundane" explanation that defies probability (a bigfoot-skeptic specialty) and (2) believe that any single piece of evidence is worth much without followup that generates more evidence.

The bottom line is, is that you cannot rule out a hoax when you have a set of tracks going straight down a road. Tracks in and of themselves mean nothing anyhow..........they do not further the goal of species recognition. There fore the only good that can come from them is tracking the maker down..........

So if they leave the road and go into wilderness? Great......pack your rifle. Otherwise? They are worthless to all but Meldrum and a few others that like to study such things.

[Guest Tontar]

As far as a kill site, I'm told by many in the community that Bigfoot Army will hunt me down and rip me to shreds.........Todd Standing claims that if he had a team of Navy SEALs with him and he killed one no one would get out alive..........

Maybe that's just Todd's version of self protection. Create the illusion that shooting one of his bigfoots would end in disaster, means he can romp around in his bigfoot suit and not worry about getting shot! :-)

[norseman]

Here's one trackway that I don't think even is yellow. How'd a person do this? (And note they weren't all in the road.)

You do remember Wallace's method of leaving long strides? Tie a rope to a car or truck, and let it tow you at a fast enough speed where you can moonwalk with a super long stride. Considering that the distance between tracks seems to be pretty huge compared to the length of the feet, the footprint layer was either super long legged with proportionally tiny feet, or it was moving pretty fast to make such long strides. Since the tracks are down the middle of the road, my guess is they were towed while trotting.

Even if it's a bona fide Squatch, because DWA is right.........animals DO use our trails and roads........why wouldn't they? They take the path of least resistence same as we do.

You can never rule it out, unless you can pick up the trail when it leaves the road and trail it five miles into the back country.............THEN I would be more excited.

I made a set of stompers in HS and scared the day lights out of my aunt and uncle in their freshly tilled garden. I hiked to the edge of the garden put them on and made a loop and took them off and ran off to home. No way would I want to buck deadfall and brush with a pair, and in my own experience 3 plus feet of snow? Forget it. I'd be on my nose more than I would be on my feet. My Cabela snow shoes are challenging enough.

[Guest]

i think anyone with a brain, and even moderate common sense knows to take everything Standing say's with a grain of salt.

Norseman- a couple of +1's for you above, for some of the better posts i've seen in quite a while..... very well said.

Art

[Guest]

Here is my standard for the biological sciences:

http://www.skyandtel...-201456101.html

47 million light-years away, and they're spinning a tale of predatory stars.

Backed by evidence.

Meanwhile, down here, we got the biggest primate on the planet running around, and maybe some others too, and here the scientists are, sitting on hands that are glued to their seats.

This is why astronomy is cool, and biology is 19th-century.

Maybe we should just give this to paleontology, or paleoanthropology. At least those guys have some imagination.

I honestly don't know how Meldrum could keep it up, were it not that his vision makes his life a lot more fun, I bet.

(And yes, imagination basically is the engine of science. It is why science happened in the first place. The fuddy-duddies hijacked the plane. They didn't build it.)

Apples and Ganymede. With a black hole, you not never entirely "prove" it exists, no can you entirely prove plate tectonics or evolution. However, you can prove a species 100%. Bring in a specimen. The extraordinary claim of a large primate living across a continent and wandering near rural/suburban areas requires nothing short of a body or DNA. Bigfoot proponents still fail to do just that. And yes, biologists have just as much imagination as any other scientists. That's why we have people sequencing genomes and searching for cures for cancer. Edited April 6, 2013 by Jerrymanderer

[norseman]

As far as a kill site, I'm told by many in the community that Bigfoot Army will hunt me down and rip me to shreds.........Todd Standing claims that if he had a team of Navy SEALs with him and he killed one no one would get out alive..........

Maybe that's just Todd's version of self protection. Create the illusion that shooting one of his bigfoots would end in disaster, means he can romp around in his bigfoot suit and not worry about getting shot! :-)

I think your right to a point. He lives in Canada so gun laws up there are very tight. But at the very least he is perpetuating the myth. I don't trust a anti kill proponent that is trying to sell me something...........ever. If the mystery is solved their market is dead. If it's just another animal that science has cataloged then the mystique is over with..........for the most part. People rightfully so will look towards their branches of government for answers and not self proclaimed experts.

[norseman]

i think anyone with a brain, and even moderate common sense knows to take everything Standing say's with a grain of salt.

Norseman- a couple of +1's for you above, for some of the better posts i've seen in quite a while..... very well said.

Art

I'm touched, thank you.