Bigfoot Research--Still No Evidence (Continued)

[Guest DWA]

These last few posts have reminded me of people who fantasise about killings ( for example ) and who have been given their first chance to actually talk about how they'd actually do it, and they're getting really excited about doing so.

 

Only they stop short of actually being able to plausibly say how they'd go about doing it.

[Guest]

 

Saskeptic wrote:

I don't assume that hoaxers intend any more than a tiny fraction of their prints to be found.  I envision folks who just enjoy a good long hike and have a bit of fun along the way by laying down some prints.  That's one brand of hoaxer.  These folks might not care one whit if they ever hear back that anyone ever came across one of their creations. 

 

So if people are simply hiking around the mountains for many hours/days with stompers on?

No, you have them in your backpack and put them on where you want to lay down a print or two. 

[norseman]

 

 

Saskeptic wrote:

I don't assume that hoaxers intend any more than a tiny fraction of their prints to be found.  I envision folks who just enjoy a good long hike and have a bit of fun along the way by laying down some prints.  That's one brand of hoaxer.  These folks might not care one whit if they ever hear back that anyone ever came across one of their creations. 

 

So if people are simply hiking around the mountains for many hours/days with stompers on?

No, you have them in your backpack and put them on where you want to lay down a print or two. 

 

 

And this is why I want to take this tracking class......

 

That would never fly with someone who knows what they are doing.

[Guest Urkelbot]

Does any research groups out there do a more in depth analysis of prints?  Like take samples of the soil from the print and do mass spectrometry.  

 

You could rule it being fake print if trace particles of  man made polymers, non native wood, rubber, etc were identified.  Or possible evidence for bigfoot in the form of body fluids, mammalian cellular debris.  A foot will leave trace evidence behind which could possibly be identified if it is fresh and the researcher has powerful enough equipment.

[Guest]

These last few posts have reminded me of people who fantasise about killings ( for example ) and who have been given their first chance to actually talk about how they'd actually do it, and they're getting really excited about doing so.

Uh?

Saskeptic wrote:

I don't assume that hoaxers intend any more than a tiny fraction of their prints to be found.  I envision folks who just enjoy a good long hike and have a bit of fun along the way by laying down some prints.  That's one brand of hoaxer.  These folks might not care one whit if they ever hear back that anyone ever came across one of their creations.

 

So if people are simply hiking around the mountains for many hours/days with stompers on?

No, you have them in your backpack and put them on where you want to lay down a print or two.

 

And this is why I want to take this tracking class......

 

That would never fly with someone who knows what they are doing.

I wonder how many tracks are investigated by real trackers. Also, I wonder how many tracks are investigated by real trackers who are not Bigfoot believers.

[Guest JoelS]

Does any research groups out there do a more in depth analysis of prints?  Like take samples of the soil from the print and do mass spectrometry.  

 

You could rule it being fake print if trace particles of  man made polymers, non native wood, rubber, etc were identified.  Or possible evidence for bigfoot in the form of body fluids, mammalian cellular debris.  A foot will leave trace evidence behind which could possibly be identified if it is fresh and the researcher has powerful enough equipment.

 

That requires a pretty dang big budget.  I am skeptical that any BF'ers have that kind of cash the put into it.

[Squatchy McSquatch]

Bob Titmus said he was a real tracker.

 

He was even paid by Tom Slick for his tracking skills.

 

He promised he wasn't biased though. Said he was full of integrity.

 

Is that evidence or proof?

Edited July 2, 2013 by Squatchy McSquatch

[norseman]

 

These last few posts have reminded me of people who fantasise about killings ( for example ) and who have been given their first chance to actually talk about how they'd actually do it, and they're getting really excited about doing so.

Uh?

 

 

 

Saskeptic wrote:

I don't assume that hoaxers intend any more than a tiny fraction of their prints to be found.  I envision folks who just enjoy a good long hike and have a bit of fun along the way by laying down some prints.  That's one brand of hoaxer.  These folks might not care one whit if they ever hear back that anyone ever came across one of their creations.

 

So if people are simply hiking around the mountains for many hours/days with stompers on?

 

No, you have them in your backpack and put them on where you want to lay down a print or two.

 

 

And this is why I want to take this tracking class......

 

That would never fly with someone who knows what they are doing.

 

I wonder how many tracks are investigated by real trackers. Also, I wonder how many tracks are investigated by real trackers who are not Bigfoot believers.

 

 

I'm a hunter and I have successfully tracked animals and harvested them.

 

But a tracking school such as the one I'm contemplating is on a whole different plain...........it would mostly be geared towards Law Enforcement or the Military. And it primarily deals with the tracking of men.

 

I've read that Peter Byrne hypothesized that Sasquatch hid their tracks, well there is another creature that will do the same.........Man.

 

I have no idea how many professional trackers have been called out to a Sasquatch track, nor do I know whether or not they believed in the existence of the animal.

Bob Titmus said he was a real tracker.

 

He was even paid by Tom Slick for his tracking skills.

 

He promised he wasn't biased though. Said he was full of integrity.

 

Is that evidence or proof?

 

Proof is a body, what's standing in the tracks.

 

I also remember Peter Byrne not having a very high opinion of Bob Titmus's tracking skills.

 

Look, if your a professional tracker and you cannot work out the track in question? That's certainly a hit on your reputation. 

 

Nothing should be able to fool a tracker, a runner has tricks to slow him down on his back trail, but a good tracker should be able to work through all the tricks....... I.e. Walking backwards, hopping rocks, hitting creeks, etc.

[BobbyO]

These last few posts have reminded me of people who fantasise about killings ( for example ) and who have been given their first chance to actually talk about how they'd actually do it, and they're getting really excited about doing so.

Uh?.

There's that mute speak again, but I'm pretty sure this time its from a human. Edited July 2, 2013 by BobbyO

[Cotter]

A good point is raised above.

 

We have what, thousands of claimed BF sightings.

 

But, has anyone come across a sighting of a BF hoaxer?
 

[Guest]

^If you observed someone hoaxing a bigfoot, would you report that to the BFRO? If you did, would they include it in the database?

 

Despite that, we do hear of real attempts from time-to-time, but mostly when they go horribly wrong.

[norseman]

I think we are talking about hoaxing track ways.

 

But yes I heard about that incident, tragic.

[Cotter]

^Well, I was just asking in general.

That's one case of an attempted hoax, but to my knowledge, no reports in that area were filed regarding a BF sighting.

[Guest]

These last few posts have reminded me of people who fantasise about killings ( for example ) and who have been given their first chance to actually talk about how they'd actually do it, and they're getting really excited about doing so.

Uh?

Saskeptic wrote:

I don't assume that hoaxers intend any more than a tiny fraction of their prints to be found.  I envision folks who just enjoy a good long hike and have a bit of fun along the way by laying down some prints.  That's one brand of hoaxer.  These folks might not care one whit if they ever hear back that anyone ever came across one of their creations.

 

So if people are simply hiking around the mountains for many hours/days with stompers on?

No, you have them in your backpack and put them on where you want to lay down a print or two.

 

And this is why I want to take this tracking class......

 

That would never fly with someone who knows what they are doing.

I wonder how many tracks are investigated by real trackers. Also, I wonder how many tracks are investigated by real trackers who are not Bigfoot believers.

 

I'm a hunter and I have successfully tracked animals and harvested them.

 

But a tracking school such as the one I'm contemplating is on a whole different plain...........it would mostly be geared towards Law Enforcement or the Military. And it primarily deals with the tracking of men.

 

I've read that Peter Byrne hypothesized that Sasquatch hid their tracks, well there is another creature that will do the same.........Man.

 

I have no idea how many professional trackers have been called out to a Sasquatch track, nor do I know whether or not they believed in the existence of the animal.

Bob Titmus said he was a real tracker.

 

He was even paid by Tom Slick for his tracking skills.

 

He promised he wasn't biased though. Said he was full of integrity.

 

Is that evidence or proof?

 

Proof is a body, what's standing in the tracks.

 

I also remember Peter Byrne not having a very high opinion of Bob Titmus's tracking skills.

 

Look, if your a professional tracker and you cannot work out the track in question? That's certainly a hit on your reputation. 

 

Nothing should be able to fool a tracker, a runner has tricks to slow him down on his back trail, but a good tracker should be able to work through all the tricks....... I.e. Walking backwards, hopping rocks, hitting creeks, etc.

I recommend this book, by a famous man-tracker who also exposed the Bigfoot tracks associated with Paul Freeman: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/tracker-joel-c-hardin/1007143069?ean=9780975346006

And this is up your alley: http://www.tracknature.com/x/product.php?productid=17616&cat=9&page=1

[Guest]

There are a lot of stories about BF tracks out in the middle of nowhere, where it would be very unlikely that someone would bother to fake tracks, but I think these are all just a part of BF mythology. Sure, there may be the odd case, but I don't think it's anywhere near as common as some would have us believe. And really, how good are these tracks?

And I don't think all trackers should be put on the same level. It's like 'experienced' woodsmen or 'experienced' hunters, a lot of this is a boat load of empty nets. People can call themselves whatever they want, or refer to someone in whatever way they want, to somehow heap a little credibility onto the pile, but whoa there Smokey! I know a lot of hunters, a lot. I know a lot of hunters who have been hunting all there lives and have hunted since they were kids. I suppose I would refer to most of these guys as 'experienced' hunters, strictly based on their years at the activity. But I have also spent a lot of time in the bush with some of these guys, I'm usually the guy with the cameras who bemoans their barbarity in the evenings around the fire, and ya, they put up with me because we are friends and it's all in good fun. But I would not put all these guys on the same level as hunters. Sure they go out every year, and some of them even have success most years, but in the end they are just going through the motions. They are not any more special at walking and being in the woods than I am, in fact, I'd say in a lot of cases they are worse. But if one of these guys claimed he saw BF, well you know their claim would get a whole lot of extra merit because they were considered 'experienced' hunters. But it means diddly squat. Sure they are far better woodsmen than the full fledged noob, but in reality, they are just guys who like to hunt. But what they really like is to refer to themselves as hunters, and have others know and refer to them that way as well...they seem to care more about their status as hunters and how they are seen as hunters than anything else. That is why they spend the entire off-season buying gear, beefing up trucks, scoring the latest camo, tougher quads, buying the latest bow, filling their gun vaults, shopping at Cabelas...and then never doing much more than driving the logging roads for one or two weekends a year. Maybe park the staging trailer in the sticks somewhere for a week and wander about. Don't get me wrong, they're hunters...but, in the big scheme of things, they have no special skills, no elite knowledge or sixth senses, they're just dudes out there with guns...and the same applies to the vast majority of hunters out there. Millions of them slide off their couches when hunting season opens up, and millions of them hit the trees on opening day, yet none ever seem to surprise a BF with the sudden influx of people and guns in the woods. Why? Because IMO, BF does not exist.

As to actual trackers...the only real actual trackers I ever met that were really impressive were the natives I worked with up in the arctic, my scuzin Jimbo the guide...and a friend who is a wildlife biologist. My biologist friend can tell a grizzly went through a week before, how fast he was going and what direction he went, and then follow that bear. He has never seen nor heard of any of his fellow biologists seeing or following BF sign. Why? Because IMO, BF does not exist!

 

But of tracking skills, I know the ability is out there, and that these skills can be learned and acquired, but there are very few with this skill set and I doubt most BF 'trackers' could tell a hoaxed track from a well hoaxed track (since I doubt real tracks exist). Most hunters only have rudimentary tracking skills. They have hunting skills, which includes identifying tracks and knowing enough to get a little info on time frame and direction, but that is it.

Hoaxes do happen, I think the PGF is one of the greatest hoaxes of all time, those three should be in the Hoax Hall of Fame.

 

Peace

Edited July 3, 2013 by summitwalker