Is Habituation A Safety Hazard?

[Guest wudewasa]

Wude, its not rocket science.

If you are aware of this animals existence you will be of the mindset that of course, the animal could be dangerous.

If you are not aware of the animals existence, you will of course continue to put jpg's that are in a sarcastic manner, to answer posters that give you the answers that you wanted in the first pace, that you won't accept.

You have no idea of my experience with wildlife.  Respect and understanding are both crucial in dealing with species.  I remember how Steve Irwin walked the line for decades, and a simple lapse of caution ended his life.

 

Midnight Owl, great post!

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

Since habituation is happening mostly in people's minds, I think it presents more of a psychological problem than a physical one. It's really up to the "habituator" to decide whether they need help or not. But putting habituation aside, I think large primates of any kind can be a danger

[LeafTalker]

Is a habituation scenario safe?  Depends on the people and the bigfoots involved and in the situation.  Too many parameters to consider without specifics.  However, it really seems to be a mixed bag from self reports.  I think the best case scenario would be to do like FloridaReader has done and reach a compromise.  I think these are intelligent homins, so I think THEY think and reason and can make decisions....that said, that is also the problem!  You aren't dealing with ONLY an intelligent animal, but a reasoning being.  Puts a new spin on things.  I prefer to imagine them as something like a very primitive, tribal Neanderthal person with hair and of larger size and use that as a working hypothesis when dealing with them, or potentially dealing with them.  Anything less and you might be depriving yourself of valid information that would assist you in figuring out how to deal with them and live in cooperation with them.  After all, they ARE bigger, faster and stronger than you - we are not used to not being the dominant species - it's them habituating US and not us, them.  IF they are there, they will do pretty much whatever they want to do - how would you stop them?  (Answer: cameras' right?  What if they get angry?).  I don't think it's generally a safe scenario, but a human's job should be to become knowledgeable about the group of bigfoots they are dealing with, determine why the foots are there and find a compromise everyone can live with.

 

Also, they don't NEED anything of ours.  There must be another motivation for them approaching and interacting with humans.  We have nothing they need.  Therefore, is it logical to conclude that we have something they simply want?  Snacks?  Entertainment?  Territory that was theirs that humans have encroached upon that they want continued access to?  

 

Madison, I love your posts. 

 

-- Very, very smart beings - check

-- Don't need anything from us - check

-- Capable of, and interested in, compromise - check

 

Net result? No need for fear. No danger here. 

 

From what I can tell, there are only two situations that can be dicey. The first is when we go looking for them with the intention of harming them. Sometimes they'll ignore us when we're in that frame of mind, but sometimes we will be pushing our luck -- just as we would be pushing our luck if we went chasing another human being in that frame of mind. 

 

The other situation, which poses much less of a threat, but can look scary at first, is if we've been putting out food for them on our property and then suddenly stop doing so. They appear to get testy in those situations and may thrash about, looking for the darn stuff that's supposed to be there, darn it. But that's nothing that a little conversation (and patience) can't fix. 

 

 

We are never in danger from them, if we have our heads on straight. It's all about perception -- just like it is with everything else on this planet. 

 

Learn to look for the good, and that's all that will come to you. 

 

Treat everyone (and everything) the way you would like to be treated -- that is, with respect -- and that is what you'll get back. 

[Guest]

Assuming that Bigfoot exists as a flesh-and-blood species (I intend no offence with those words): I would tend to agree with points made by Midnight Owl and OntarioSquatch. It strikes me as very unlikely that habituation attempts would potentially put anyone in danger, other than the habituator and those, if any, who lived with them. i would see it as a matter of -- would-be habituators, assess the risks as best you can; and if you judge the risks to be acceptable, then go for it.

[LeafTalker]

I agree. Midnight Owl, I love your posts, too!

[kbhunter]

For what it is worth. The situation I have at 2 locations is more of mutual encounters of respect more than what the term "habituation" defines. I have had them come into my camp, and make their presence known by tossing rocks at the camper, knocking on trees in camp, grunts and mumble talking sounds etc. We also have them leave little gifts such as pretty rocks left in certain areas such as inside coolers, or the outdoor storage bin of the campers. We have then come around often and just walk around outside of the light of camp. We do see them occasionally in glimpses and last year my wife had one look around a tree at her 50 feet away in the daytime.  

 

Another location has been active for better than 20 years with slightly less "friendly" encounters and my son was actually chased by one, but I must emphasize it would have caught him if it had wanted too. it was that close. BUT that situation was because there was a female and a smaller juvenile together and my son had a shotgun in his hands at the time. He was checking out noises and grunts close to our camp and go too close.

 

I also can say here the true "habituators" I know and are friends with, DO have photos and videos and some are VERY good ones and totally convincing. The fact is they and other friends I have already know they are real and do not try and prove them and don't want potential threatening people around so they do not get posted anywhere. Why should they? There is absolutely no reason in there minds to try and convince anyone.

 

You all can see in just this forum how completely emotional this topic is. Considering nothing but bad will come out of posting or showing pics for the true habituators, I completely understand. Thusly, some very good and wonderful people get labeled nasty names because they think they are nuts. Maybe some people are, but my friends have opened up to me and let me see inside their world of habituation and I can honestly say with all sincerity, it has helped change my life and it is simply amazing. 

KB

[Old Dog]

Maybe it's just me, but in all of these "habituator" situations, many claim to have photo and video evidence, yet not one has come forward with it.  I'm not saying anyone is being false, but in all of them that now claim habituation, not one single person has come forward with the evidence of it.  I also have to ask why, if a person has no intention of showing anyone the photos or videos, they take them in the first place.  As soon as someone comes out with a story of habituating BF, and claims proof, but refuses to show said proof, they get labeled a liar by some.  I would say it just wouldn't be worth saying anything, rather than put up with the hassles from others.There are two possible reasons I can think of for withholding evidence.  One - you truly want to protect them (so why say anything to begin with?) and two - It is a total fabrication.  Mind, I'm not saying anyone on here is fabricating stories, just that these are the scenarios that I personally run through mentally when I hear these reports of habituation.

[indiefoot]

Were the BF community more willing to respect the privacy of others, I suspect we would see more evidence. Very few are willing to compromise the location of their study area.

[Sunflower]

Well, I'll be packing a camera when we go to the woods this week.  BTW, they love chocolate and that is why we don't take them any....bad idea.  A friend was giving them chocolate on a regular basis and they were literally on her front porch looking for more LOL.

[slabdog]

So, is there any photo or video documentation of these encounters?

Cameras destroy "trust"

[Airdale]

Here is the situation as I see it:

1)We have at least one organized and an unknown number of ad-hoc groups with the goal of collecting a type specimen of Wood Ape, Bigfoot, Sasquatch, pick your favorite, so that the species will be recognized by the scientific community at large and protection measures developed.

2)Most all the posts I have read over the last three months that discuss kill/no kill, protection, habituation, etc., state in one way or another that the writer is concerned for the welfare of the species.

With these items in mind, it would IMHO behoove anyone in possession of photographic/video evidence of a convincing nature to put it into the hands of someone like Dr. Jeff Meldrum with the hope that it may be sufficient to at least prompt wider "legitimate" scientific investigation of the subject and possibly reduce or eliminate the need to collect a type specimen. Whether an individual feels the need to convince the world at large of their knowledge or not, if they are truly concerned for the future well being of these creatures it would be selfish indeed to withhold such evidence from the scientific community. This would not require that the data be publicly released on this forum or elsewhere, only that it be shared in confidence with someone able to make a difference.

Both personal experience and research strongly suggest to me that these creatures exist, but as a disclaimer for the benefit of those with other opinions, the above post presupposes their existence.

[Midnight Owl]

Thank you Leaf Talker, I really enjoy sharing with interested folks rather than trying to prove to a skeptic they exist.  I am astounded at the number of folks on this blog who have had close experiences with these subjects and maintain a low profile, yet occasionally share their knowledge.    

[LeafTalker]

Me, too, Midnight Owl. I'm astounded, too.     There is an amazing wealth of knowledge here, and many truly brave and generous people -- including you! I've been learning a lot from you!

Edited May 5, 2013 by LeafTalker

[TD-40]

It's hard for me to accept the idea of truly habituating with these creatures. Every time I hear about habituation I can't help but think of the "Missing 411" books. In so many of these stories it seems that the human was kidnapped and thought to have been used for food.

 

If you have a home that might be located in an are they frequent, then you have a chance that they will respect you and your home, and some form of habituation could occur. But don't think you are going to be venturing off with a backpack and you are going to become accepted by them in their domain.

[Guest]

Plussed Old Dog, I completely agree. Additionally, comments like "they don't like cameras" have always made me say huh? How do they know what a camera is? Habituation stories have never failed to leave me feeling skeptical. And the way things NEVER seem to pan out around here, I am starting to give up hope that we'll ever have proof!