N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[Guest]

Drew, your misunderstanding me. I am just speaking of various stories I have heard. I dont believe they have anything special other than bulk and I didnt imply no injury would occur from a chest shot just that if its thru a lung only or less it will still get away. I think a small caliber hitting thick muscle backed by bone and not penetrating deeper is survivable though. Geeze your reaching arent you ?

Gearman.

I don't understand how any animal could take a chest shot from a high-foot-pound round.

Just the physics of high force projectile hitting any living creature is often enough to kill.

Elephant femurs get broken, Cape Buffalo skulls get shattered.

The the force of the projectile liquefies organs upon impact.

Do you think the Wood Apes have special anatomy that makes them immune to High force rounds?

Hathaway Capstick's preferred .500 Nitro Express target on a cape buffalo was through it's front shoulder. Even if it didn't make it into the "Boiler Room" it would break that front shoulder. He preferred the head on shot on Bull Elephants, but during his culling years, when he worked for the government culling herds, he could drop an elephant with one shot just behind the front shoulder.

Karman Kittenberger found the hunting of Gorillas for the Hungarian Natural History Museum to be offensive, simply because they died so easily.

Are we adding another supernatural power to the Wood-Apes? Ability to withstand chest shots from hunting rifles?

Maybe I'm misreading your post.

Edited January 23, 2014 by GEARMAN

[Guest zenmonkey]

Thanks for the return Brian just don't tell me that your are a   Zombie that would be creepy! I had an old x BFRO member who had gone to X years ago with Alton show me where it was on a topo map. It drives me nuts wondering exactly why these animals want that habitat and or the surrounding areas  hopefuly we will find out soon. keep up the good fight!

Edited January 23, 2014 by zenmonkey
Edit religous reference.

[Guest]

I don't recall saying that, but I'm sure you'll provide a link if I say I didn't. As I've said on this forum in the past, our agreement with the property owners precludes me from disclosing in any way the exact location. Now, I won't even comment on a proposed location. It's a game nobody needs to play. Also as I've said here and on the Bigfoot Show, the location of X isn't a secret. Lot's of people in and out of the NAWAC know where it is. We just don't disclose it because the owners of the property don't want curious trespassers (and neither do we for obvious reasons). If it suddenly became widely known, that would be a shame, but it wouldn't change how we work or our mission.

It’s possible the “Bingo†comment was addressed to someone else. I do wonder why my original post was removed, if Drew is correct.

I understand why you would not want a Fouke-like invasion of unwanted private sleuths or a “Field of Dreams†constant caravan and I would not advocate anyone crash your party. I posted the hiking trail near your “no confirm or deny†location (of at least a sasquatch track find) so anyone who is interested can experience the approximate local terrain and wildlife and get a feel for the area. And enjoy a hike. I might go myself soon.

It does seem that hiking trails abound in that part of Oklahoma: http://www.ouachitamaps.com/OT.html

This leads to another point about NAWAC incongruities. For the sake of this post, I will accept your comments that you know a giant species of ape, unknown to science, has a troop living in the woods of Oklahoma in the “valley of the wood apes.†You know these apes exist because you and others have seen them. Ms. Strain has claimed these apes are potentially dangerous, which is obvious since we know what a man sized chimpanzee can do to a human. Imagine what a huge ape, maybe twice as big as a gorilla, could do.

I would assume that because you have experienced these monster apes, and you are sure they are in the area, that you would feel morally compelled to alert the authorities and request warning notices at various trailheads in the area. Since you know these things are real, then you know the potential danger to hikers innocently moving about on hiking trails.

The danger is compounded by the fact that your team members may wound but not kill a wood ape and send it in a frenzy off the property and perhaps into the path of hapless hikers. Even without that threat, a sick sasquatch or a rabid one might wonder into a trailhead a seriously hurt women and children.

If I saw a couple of huge smilodons in a vast wooded area pocked with hiking trails, I would want the authorities to know of this dangerous situation and if they failed to act, and I were truly conscientious, I would make the danger known to the best of my ability to hikers and potential hikers.

I hope you do not place the safety of innocent hikers below the singular goal of obtaining a specimen and will remain quiet and unobtrusive. If you make a stink like a wood ape to the authorities about this possible threat to life and limb, maybe you will save some lives. It’s the right thing to do.

[Gotta Know]

*earlier post self-edited for snarkiness*

 

Welcome back, Brian. I appreciate your great contributions and look forward to your 2014 field efforts with great anticipation.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Gotta Know

[dmaker]

It’s possible the “Bingo†comment was addressed to someone else. I do wonder why my original post was removed, if Drew is correct.I understand why you would not want a Fouke-like invasion of unwanted private sleuths or a “Field of Dreams†constant caravan and I would not advocate anyone crash your party. I posted the hiking trail near your “no confirm or deny†location (of at least a sasquatch track find) so anyone who is interested can experience the approximate local terrain and wildlife and get a feel for the area. And enjoy a hike. I might go myself soon.It does seem that hiking trails abound in that part of Oklahoma: http://www.ouachitamaps.com/OT.htmlThis leads to another point about NAWAC incongruities. For the sake of this post, I will accept your comments that you know a giant species of ape, unknown to science, has a troop living in the woods of Oklahoma in the “valley of the wood apes.†You know these apes exist because you and others have seen them. Ms. Strain has claimed these apes are potentially dangerous, which is obvious since we know what a man sized chimpanzee can do to a human. Imagine what a huge ape, maybe twice as big as a gorilla, could do.I would assume that because you have experienced these monster apes, and you are sure they are in the area, that you would feel morally compelled to alert the authorities and request warning notices at various trailheads in the area. Since you know these things are real, then you know the potential danger to hikers innocently moving about on hiking trails.The danger is compounded by the fact that your team members may wound but not kill a wood ape and send it in a frenzy off the property and perhaps into the path of hapless hikers. Even without that threat, a sick sasquatch or a rabid one might wonder into a trailhead a seriously hurt women and children.If I saw a couple of huge smilodons in a vast wooded area pocked with hiking trails, I would want the authorities to know of this dangerous situation and if they failed to act, and I were truly conscientious, I would make the danger known to the best of my ability to hikers and potential hikers.I hope you do not place the safety of innocent hikers below the singular goal of obtaining a specimen and will remain quiet and unobtrusive. If you make a stink like a wood ape to the authorities about this possible threat to life and limb, maybe you will save some lives. It’s the right thing to do.

True. Good point. If Dyer can get the media attention with a perfectly harmless, dead, fake bigfoot then surely a warning of live, potentially lethal wood apes lurking near innocent hikers should have no problems getting attention.

Have the proper agencies been alerted to the menace lurking in the area?

[Gotta Know]

^^Bipto just came back. How 'bout we give him a break from subterfuge for a bit?

[Guest UPs]

Brian....thank you for the patience that you have shown throughout this thread. There are many of us that are truly interested in learning more about bf and the NAWAC,s attempt to document these animals. Everyone should know the importance of keeping this type of location private and I have to question motives of those purposely trying to disclose it to the public against the wishes of those directly involved in the operation.

When is the earliest time of year that your group will be back up there for an extended time and do you guys send up a small group prior to this to document any changes to the area/structures? So far, this has been a fairly dry winter with mild temps at least in the north TX area.

[Guest]

Have the proper agencies been alerted to the menace lurking in the area?

 

"Yes, hello? Local government authority? Please be aware there are very scary and dangerous monsters in the Ouachita range and poor, unsuspecting hikers who have heretofore not been killed in large numbers may be in the near future. Hello?"

 

click

When is the earliest time of year that your group will be back up there for an extended time and do you guys send up a small group prior to this to document any changes to the area/structures? So far, this has been a fairly dry winter with mild temps at least in the north TX area.

 

We've been in and out all the time this year in preparation for this summer. We're making many changes ourselves, so any disturbances would be hard to spot. Typically, we start our continuous presence in the late spring. 

[Guest DWA]

All kinds of animals can get hit by a shot and get up and run away. Same with animals that get hit by cars. Assuming their legs aren't broken, the flight instinct and adrenaline rush is enough to make them try and get away as fast as possible, even if it's just to drop dead fifty yards away. 

I hit a squirrel at conderable speed once.  It shook it off, raced across the road and shot up a tree.

[Guest DWA]

The irony is there are hundreds of pages of thousands of posts across multiple threads where I've been as responsive as possible for no other reason than we want people to share in the knowledge and insights gained from our experience, but some still take the attitude that I'm afraid to face the tough questions. I'm not. I just don't care to debate the likelihood of something I know to be true. It's a waste of time. But wasting time seems to be the mission of some. 

 

Wait!  WSA has a thread on skeptic motivation and you may have just provided the answer!

 

My reason for dropping out of this conversation was because it had drifted again and again away from the NAWAC's work which is its purpose and the reason I'm even still a member here. There were no all-capped ultimatums. Just simple explanations that priorities have to be made in all our lives. At the time I left, I had more than enough distractions from my real life to keep me occupied. There was no reason for me to participate here only to watch more endless debating of whether bigfoot could or could not be real. It is. I know it is. If you don't like that, read another thread (or start one yourself). 

 

Conspiracy theory:  a bigfoot-skeptic specialty.

 

 

I don't recall saying that, but I'm sure you'll provide a link if I say I didn't. As I've said on this forum in the past, our agreement with the property owners precludes me from disclosing in any way the exact location. Now, I won't even comment on a proposed location. It's a game nobody needs to play. Also as I've said here and on the Bigfoot Show, the location of X isn't a secret. Lot's of people in and out of the NAWAC know where it is. We just don't disclose it because the owners of the property don't want curious trespassers (and neither do we for obvious reasons). If it suddenly became widely known, that would be a shame, but it wouldn't change how we work or our mission. 

 

I'd say that anybody working to publicize this might share some responsibility for putting a fool who doesn't think about stuff enough in a suit - and in the potential path of hot lead.

 

 

The lab we sent it to said they didn't even find blood on the rocks even though our own use of established and accepted forensic tests said it was blood (and obviously *is* blood just based on appearances). Therefore, they didn't take us seriously at all.

 

No!  Wrong!  You're lying!  It's part of the Conspiracy to Waste Our Time...!!!!

 

We've done subsequent testing and found the DNA to be too badly damaged, probably by being exposed to the sun for too long. We retain several samples still in the hopes that DNA testing advances enough to be able to work with them. We have a very capable and qualified DNA expert in the group so what I'm saying here isn't conjecture. It *is* blood on the rocks and the DNA is not workable at this time. 

You can read an interesting interview about wood ape DNA with our guy here: http://texascryptidhunter.blogspot.com/2013/11/what-can-we-expect-to-learn-from-wood.html

But you're wrong, because all the woods in that area were cut and all the wildlife, down to gophers and grasshoppers, shot out by I would estimate 1903.  No people either.  MOONSCAPE, I am telling you.

 

 

We're adapting the Overwatch tactic, changing the loads in our rifles, raising funds to purchase another thermal scope, and very likely selling the security system we installed. All this is based on the experiences of last year. We are very hopeful for 2014. 

 

Could you clarify on "selling the security system..?"

 

 

And look, it's not even Easter. 

 

But just in time for post-holiday sales!  Your efforts are much appreciated, rolling away huge stones or no.

[WSA]

I think the idea that shooting at a large, fleet, furtive, supremely adapted and non-stationary quarry in a  heavily wooded environment like you find in S. OK can be compared to any other kind of hunting environment or quarry is fairly uninformed.  When you add to this list of variables, "potentially lethal" and "most active at night", you really stretch the comparison. But let me try.  Maybe hunting jaguar by torch light ? My guess is that might come close.     

[Guest]

Could you clarify on "selling the security system..?"

 

It's our hypothesis that the IR light from the cameras caused the apes to stay away from the cabin. Based on our observations that close activity drops to essentially zero when the cameras are illuminated but picks back up with they're off, along with the fact that IR game cams also produce no results, we're left to surmise that IR light is something they can detect and avoid. Compound that with our belief that images alone cannot prove the animal, the system actually becomes a deterrent to the achievement of documentation.

[Guest Cervelo]

Yote hunting at night would be a good comparison IMO.

[Guest]

When you add to this list of variables, "potentially lethal" and "most active at night", you really stretch the comparison. But let me try.  Maybe hunting jaguar by torch light ? My guess is that might come close.     

 

Hunting is a lot more than being where the animals are with a gun! There's a lot of luck involved, on both ends of the firearm. 

[Guest DWA]

 

It's our hypothesis that the IR light from the cameras caused the apes to stay away from the cabin. Based on our observations that close activity drops to essentially zero when the cameras are illuminated but picks back up with they're off, along with the fact that IR game cams also produce no results, we're left to surmise that IR light is something they can detect and avoid. Compound that with our belief that images alone cannot prove the animal, the system actually becomes a deterrent to the achievement of documentation.

Makes sense.  What you were doing on Overwatch might benefit from those proceeds.  We may be down to jes' huntin' here.