N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[Sunflower]

If you take midnight motorcycle rides on Hwy 81 around Concho you might get a whiff of something............

Edited July 13, 2013 by Sunflower

[Guest]

Bipto,

 

If there were giant apes living in the mountains/hills of Oklahoma it would not take a NAWAC to demonstrate that fact. It would have been verified a long time ago. Tired, or not.

 

Your comment about the rugged, impassable, implacably wild, tick infested, virtual jungle of Area X as refuge and safe haven is mitigated by your promoting Bigfoot in the western prairie of Oklahoma, where Bigfoot roams in the open plains just a short drive from Oklahoma City. Good gravy.

 

I like your photos. Am I correct to note that some of your team members were at Area X during the spring rains? The photo of muddy road condition shows that it would be a prime time to find tracks. Any luck?

 

Your last photo in post 259 shows a pathway. Any idea as to its origin?   

 

As to the birth country of Du Chaillu, I refer you to a contemporary obit: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1775671?uid=3739920&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102157974163

 

On a personal note, I think you are a standup guy. I believe you believe what you are saying. I just don't buy it. However, if you are close to bagging a giant bipedal ape, good for you and NAWAC.

 

The end problem is this: if y'all bring an ape out, you will be vindicated in heroic fashion. And rightly so. But if you do not succeed in producing the ape, you will still claim you experienced giant apes in Oklahoma and then Area X will just be another part of Bigfoot folklore --- and will have its enthusiasts forever and a day.

[Guest]

I can vouch for the ticks, having spent many days and night in the field training at Camp Robinson, which is near the Ouachita National  Forest, although not in the Forest Proper, a little east above North Little Rock.  The ticks were indeed terrible, and we as a platoon got them in huge abundances. We had the pleasure of being in the field before and during an ice storm in late January, and I was suprised at the hardiness and abundance of the critters in the cold weather. Pretty country there, beautiful razor back straight as an arrow ridges with what appeared to be sandstone or quartzite spines protruding right along the summit. Aptly named. The terrain we trained in was much like that described by Bipto and illustrated in his photos with extremely dense undergrowth in the low ground grading less dense toward the ridge crests. The ticks were the worst I have ever experienced. We spent hours removing them and checking everyone.

[Guest Urkelbot]

Regarding the black bear population explosion. Why isn't the same thing happening with bigfoot? Their fecundity should be somewhat similar to humans an they have no predators. The only other reason for low populations then would lack of breeding partners or lack of food. Breeding partners shouldn't be a problem since there is a group of them in area x. Unless they are all females and males don't travel in groups. As far as lack of food Are there Bigfoot reports of skinny or starving individuals?

Why can black bears succeed and Bigfoot fail? What is holding back Bigfoot?

[norseman]

Bipto,

 

If there were giant apes living in the mountains/hills of Oklahoma it would not take a NAWAC to demonstrate that fact. It would have been verified a long time ago. Tired, or not.

 

 

What if they were not there a long time ago? Just speculation of course.

 

 

 

Your comment about the rugged, impassable, implacably wild, tick infested, virtual jungle of Area X as refuge and safe haven is mitigated by your promoting Bigfoot in the western prairie of Oklahoma, where Bigfoot roams in the open plains just a short drive from Oklahoma City. Good gravy.

 

I like your photos. Am I correct to note that some of your team members were at Area X during the spring rains? The photo of muddy road condition shows that it would be a prime time to find tracks. Any luck?

 

Your last photo in post 259 shows a pathway. Any idea as to its origin?   

 

As to the birth country of Du Chaillu, I refer you to a contemporary obit: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1775671?uid=3739920&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102157974163

 

On a personal note, I think you are a standup guy. I believe you believe what you are saying. I just don't buy it. However, if you are close to bagging a giant bipedal ape, good for you and NAWAC.

 

The end problem is this: if y'all bring an ape out, you will be vindicated in heroic fashion. And rightly so. But if you do not succeed in producing the ape, you will still claim you experienced giant apes in Oklahoma and then Area X will just be another part of Bigfoot folklore --- and will have its enthusiasts forever and a day.

 

 

I'm assuming your looking for some sort of closure........which I think is impossible, because we cannot control what or how people think. But I don't think the situation is a win/win for pro kill proponents, by it's very own definition, we are tasking ourselves with coming up with tangible proof. And if we cannot produce? It's not a victory for sure.

 

 

Regarding the black bear population explosion. Why isn't the same thing happening with bigfoot? Their fecundity should be somewhat similar to humans an they have no predators. The only other reason for low populations then would lack of breeding partners or lack of food. Breeding partners shouldn't be a problem since there is a group of them in area x. Unless they are all females and males don't travel in groups. As far as lack of food Are there Bigfoot reports of skinny or starving individuals?

Why can black bears succeed and Bigfoot fail? What is holding back Bigfoot?

 

Apes mature slower and reproduce at slower rates than Bears. They also care for their young for much longer than a Bear.

 

http://wwf.panda.org/what_we_do/endangered_species/great_apes/orangutans/borneo_orangutan/

 

We just don't know, until science gets involved one can only speculate.

[Guest]

Apes mature slower and reproduce at slower rates than Bears. They also care for their young for much longer than a Bear.

 

This. Different animals have different gestation periods and maturity rates. Typically, the smaller the animal, the faster it reproduces (though not always). 

We had the pleasure of being in the field before and during an ice storm in late January, and I was suprised at the hardiness and abundance of the critters in the cold weather. 

 

We have them pretty bad here in Minnesota, too, but at least the little bastards die off in the winter. They're immortal in the Ouachitas. 

If there were giant apes living in the mountains/hills of Oklahoma it would not take a NAWAC to demonstrate that fact. It would have been verified a long time ago. Tired, or not.

 

People have been seeing them there for years and years. Probably for as long as there have been people there. I have seen them. The only thing no one has done (yet) is drag out a dead one to make folks like you satisfied. We're working on that as we speak. 

[Guest]

Your comment about the rugged, impassable, implacably wild, tick infested, virtual jungle of Area X as refuge and safe haven is mitigated by your promoting Bigfoot in the western prairie of Oklahoma, where Bigfoot roams in the open plains just a short drive from Oklahoma City. Good gravy.

 

Fascinating, isn't it? The prairie is an unexpected place to find them, but if you go to the location and become familiar with the terrain, you'd find ample areas of woods and creek gullies through which they could travel unseen if they wished to. I also said that they seemed to be transitory in the prairie area and resident in the mountains. Of course, you're familiar with how large animals traverse areas they don't thrive in order to get to areas where they do (such as mountain lions which are found in much more urban areas than those pictures were taken). We can't say why they were there, but they were. And they appear not to be now. The "short drive", BTW, is more than thirty miles from OKC and well outside the urban, built-up areas of the city. 

Am I correct to note that some of your team members were at Area X during the spring rains? The photo of muddy road condition shows that it would be a prime time to find tracks. Any luck?

 

We have found *lots* of tracks in X. How many photos of them would we need to produce to convince you the animal is there and real? 

[Guest Cervelo]

I'd like to see all ya got, are they on the website?

[NathanFooter]

Bipto , I too would love to see all the tracks you have    .  

 

We love that kind of stuff.

[Guest]

I asked the question metaphorically since, of course, tracks wouldn't make any difference in the world. Not one, not a thousand. There already are a plentitude of images and casts of tracks and they don't amount to anything in the minds of far-right sceptics. 

 

We've posted images in the past and included a track find in our Texas Bigfoot Conference presentation (link at the top of this thread).

[Sunflower]

You have an email and a pm.............

[MIB]

I'm assuming your looking for some sort of closure........which I think is impossible, because we cannot control what or how people think. But I don't think the situation is a win/win for pro kill proponents, by it's very own definition, we are tasking ourselves with coming up with tangible proof. And if we cannot produce? It's not a victory for sure.

 

It's not a victory, perhaps, but it is also not the end of the game.   Just as you cannot prove what is not, you cannot truly lose until you accept loss and give up.    In boxing there are 3 outcomes ... win, lose, or quit.  In this match there is no lose, either quit or fight 'til you win.

 

MIB

[Guest DWA]

Bipto,

 

If there were giant apes living in the mountains/hills of Oklahoma it would not take a NAWAC to demonstrate that fact. It would have been verified a long time ago. Tired, or not.

 

That's an assumption, unverified by any evidence.  I think sufficient evidence exists to refute it utterly:  the dismissal by skeptics of all evidence.  I am still mystified how proof happens without following up inconclusive evidence.  It is how science has found virtually everything else.  The exceptions serve to hammer home the rule.

 

Your comment about the rugged, impassable, implacably wild, tick infested, virtual jungle of Area X as refuge and safe haven is mitigated by your promoting Bigfoot in the western prairie of Oklahoma, where Bigfoot roams in the open plains just a short drive from Oklahoma City. Good gravy.

 

Animals live in different habitats.  Good gravy.

 

The end problem is this: if y'all bring an ape out, you will be vindicated in heroic fashion. And rightly so. But if you do not succeed in producing the ape, you will still claim you experienced giant apes in Oklahoma and then Area X will just be another part of Bigfoot folklore --- and will have its enthusiasts forever and a day.

 

Oh, an ape's gonna be produced.  Only question is when.   That's the way to bet this one, anyway.  And the way to bet if they - for the time being - don't produce one is that the reasons will make sense to folks who understand the difficulties of confirming animals.

[Guest]

DWA,

 

The claim is that the SE hills of Oklahoma offer concealment that hide the existence of a troop of giant apes. But then we have the additional and contrary claim of apes living in prairie land that aren't afforded such protection, and they are supposed to exist unmolested and unfound by the local population as well. Anything goes, right? Good gravy.

 

We will see, DWA. We will see if Area X provides the long sought after proof. I will cook and eat the crow you send me if they drag an ape out of the Oklahoma hills. If not, will you shine my shoes? I'll send you my Doc Martins. Spit polish, amigo. 

I asked the question metaphorically since, of course, tracks wouldn't make any difference in the world. Not one, not a thousand. There already are a plentitude of images and casts of tracks and they don't amount to anything in the minds of far-right sceptics. 

 

We've posted images in the past and included a track find in our Texas Bigfoot Conference presentation (link at the top of this thread).

Unless the tracks are obviously faked. BTW, I'm a far-left skeptic.

[Guest DWA]

DWA,

 

The claim is that the SE hills of Oklahoma offer concealment that hide the existence of a troop of giant apes. But then we have the additional and contrary claim of apes living in prairie land that aren't afforded such protection, and they are supposed to exist unmolested and unfound by the local population as well. Anything goes, right? Good gravy.

 

We will see, DWA. We will see if Area X provides the long sought after proof. I will cook and eat the crow you send me if they drag an ape out of the Oklahoma hills. If not, will you shine my shoes? I'll send you my Doc Martins. Spit polish, amigo. 

I don't consider the claim "contrary."  I have long thought that the primary concealment for these animals is the society's general ignorance of their existence.  I think that one can expect the same things of them that one sees from animals like bears, coyotes and bobcats; and it looks like that's what we're seeing.  The animals seen in prairie areas have good reasons to be there; and as the reports indicate they are not exactly going without being seen.

 

Let's not make boot-polishing plans just yet.  I reserve the right to decide whether the effort has been sufficient.  So far, I consider it insufficient to get more than intriguing but inconclusive evidence.  I'm not surprised, amigo, that we are where we are.  But I am glad we have a place to come and talk about it.