The Skeptics Head Scratchers Reports.

[NathanFooter]

 Many can dismiss the majority of reports as Miss ID or hoax or something else common BUT there is a few reports and happenings that catch the eye and mind of even those who find the existence of sasquatch very unlikely.

 

 This thread is for the skeptical { of existence } person, what event personal, shared or read holds attention and credibility for you and why. 

 

 

[Guest Cervelo]

This type of report gets my attention

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=3335

Although it doesn't meet my criteria of experienced outdoorsman, hunter, hiker, ect.

Anything post FB and 99.9% of the BFRO reports are dismissed, their vetting of reports via the "person sounded sincere when I talked to them" is absurd......and I'm guilty of it myself in JC's case LOL!

The really up close daylight sightings by experienced outdoorsmen....really only offer a couple of choices.

My own experience which was purely anecdotal in nature.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Cervelo

[NathanFooter]

 Cervelo , you would have really liked to have heard the sighting account I was told from a 65 year old woodsman/bear hunter from Oscoda county, Michigan.   I seen this man begin to cover up in goose bumps and the hair on his arms stood up, his voice was shaking and cracking as he was clearly stirring with emotion, he would make clear eye contact when affirming that he was telling the truth and that he knew what he seen.  He would break eye contact a few times when he would be recalling upon size and what to compare to, he almost seemed to be staring off into space when he was recalling specifics. 

 

 I have spoken with many witnesses who have had encounters and such but this guy seen this thing in broad daylight at close range, he still remains as the most impressive witness I have ever spoken with, hearing him speak in the details I could not help but feel emotion stirring in myself as he described the fear and awe of what he had seen being that I could relate to him entirely, it was almost like looking in a mirror and seeing myself in him.

 

 I can't go into detail or anything further but I can say that out of all the men and women I have spoken with this man's sighting account will never be forgotten.

[Guest Cervelo]

I wish I could embrace human nature as you do Nathan

But after 20yrs in sales I've seen it all and have been astounded at our species ability to lie, and like they say if the person believes it...maybe it's not a lie.

I don't buy into the emotional component of story telling as a sign of credibility.

This guy cries almost every time he tells this story...not saying he's lying..but something ain't quite right in my book...

[Trogluddite]

On a similar vein to C's tale, I question how this BFRO report could be either a hoax or a misidentification ....

 

Misidentification?  The bigfoot was observed running up to the witness and stopped only 40-50 feet away.

 

Hoax?  Compare how the witness describes his friend's movements in the deep, ice-covered snow w/what this bigfoot did.  

 

That leaves open a lie, but there appears to be little reason for someone to create such an elaborate tale.  

 

[NathanFooter]

 The difference is this guy was not willing to speak on his experience at first and his descriptions what it looked like and how he was feeling as he was looking at this living thing matched my own.   I have no comment on this Dr. Johnson's experience being I was not able to hear and observe him in person and I do not know comparatively what the details where of his experience.

 

 I do not romanticize anything in this field and nor do I ,, embrace ,, anyone who just says something with some form of emotion to go along with it, there is far more to it than that. 

 

 He had a excellent look at this sasquatch, the description and proportional details matched perfectly what I personally had seen, there is big difference between seeing a tall hairy person shape run across a road in the middle of the night and an up close unobstructed daylight sighting where you can see the details like finger nails.

 

 This was something I can't explain in an adequate way through words, it must be experienced first hand.  That is why I wish you could have HEARD this account in person as I did.   It was emotional, physical and personally exact.

[Guest lightheart]

When someone looks off in the distance when they are retelling something that happened they are actually accessing memory. Depending on the direction they look as in upper left /right or lower left/ right it reveals how the memory is stored.... as in auditory, visual, kinesthetic. 

If the memory was traumatic it would have brought up the emotions that were attached to the memory.

[Guest JiggyPotamus]

I have to disagree with your opening statement, which was "Many can dismiss the majority of reports as Miss ID or hoax or something else common...," and here is why: skeptics or non-believers dismiss ALL reports, not just most of them, while those who believe sasquatch is real probably do not dismiss the majority of reports. I for one am one of these individuals. But I suppose that you are correct for some of those who are on the fence, but I still think that it is impossible to not believe in sasquatch, yet still think any of the reports are actually describing a sasquatch. It doesn't really matter to be honest, but I just thought I would mention that before I describe my personal hypothesis on sighting reports.

 

For me, I cannot dismiss even the majority of reports as misidentifications or hoaxes. Statistically speaking, the likelihood of the majority of reports being hoaxes or misidentifications is quite small. And seems exponentially so when one adds more reports as time goes on, not to mention the quite logical belief that there have been more unreported sightings, over the years, than the total of reported sightings we have. This is due mainly to the fact that there was no sasquatch organization to file a report with, and very few people would feel comfortable reporting such an encounter to the police, although that did happen and still does in the present time. The advent of the internet gave an outlet for those who had a sighting, and one would logically conclude that this would give the hoaxers a better opportunity for hoaxing reports.

 

While that may be true, organizations like the BFRO actually have a vetting process, which will eliminate at least a small percentage of hoaxes, if not more. It stands to reason that some would file false reports because they don't have to confront anyone with their lies, but as soon as the BFRO contacts them, it will be a different story. Investigators for the organization listen for "how" the story is told, among other things, and I think it is often times fairly obvious when someone is recounting something that actually happened, as opposed to making something up.

 

And then there is the fact that so many sighting reports are consistent with one another. Someone submitting a false report would have to, among other things, learn what others are reporting, and commit those details not only to memory, but commit a believable story to memory as well, which then must be recounted to an investigator who is probably used to attempting to judge fact from fiction. And it would be a blatant lie for someone to say that these investigators consume every little detail and lie that is fed to them. To the contrary, they would sooner discount something false so as to eliminate erroneous information, preventing it from finding its way into the database. On average anyway.

 

I am getting way off the topic here, and I apologize. I just wanted to say that instead of there being one or a handful of reports that stick out to me, it is the collective data that should be the most convincing. It is hard for me to attempt to forget that I've seen one of these animals, especially when I am attempting to judge which evidence is the most convincing, since I don't really need any outside evidence to convince me. So I have to sort of speculate on what others would or should find to be the best evidence, and again, I think that is the collection of sightings reports, along with the idea that there are many thousands of sightings that have gone unreported.

 

I should mention, while on the subject, that a large number of the reports in the BFRO database detail a clear and unobstructed view of a bigfoot. It seems to me that there are some who believe that the majority of reports could be misidentifications, but the truth is that in many of these cases a person would be hard-pressed to misidentify a known animal, given the situation and unobstructed view, often accompanied by other corroborating evidence as well...such as footprints. This is just another reason why I believe the sighting record holds so much value.

 

I have a small personal database that I made which deals with just the raw numbers, without delving into the various aspects of the creature itself, and it was drawn from the BFRO data available online, so I know how many Class A reports, Class B reports, etc. there are in total...But I would really like to know, out of the Class A reports, just how many sightings were unobstructed, and how many actually detail a sighting that was through brush or trees or grass or whatever. Obviously just because there is brush in the way doesn't mean the witness misidentified a known animal, but I would be willing to bet that even if one were to eliminate all such reports from the Class A reports, they would still be left with an overwhelming amount of data.

Edited December 26, 2013 by JiggyPotamus

[southernyahoo]

I wish I was there to see what this witness did in a way, but it would have likely changed my life negatively if I actually lived in the vicinity of the encounter.I don't know how he ever went hunting again.

 

 

[Rockape]

Thanks for posting that SY. That's one of the best encounter tales I have ever heard. Everyone should listen to it, because it's a great, scary encounter story. It might well be my favorite.

 

I have been to Zwolle Louisiana (they have a lot of nerve calling that a town) and also to Many La. and I could well believe BFs could live in those woods. When they say "in the middle of nowhere" that's the kind of place they mean. Those are some thick backwoods.

 

And I've heard that guy tell his story several times, and he's very consistent.

 

Despite all that, I don't believe him. For one thing, I don't believe anyone who had that happen would go back into the woods, especially in the dark. And when someone claims they have had multiple sightings, it throws up a huge red flag for me. If they were that easy to find, we'd have a body by now.

 

Too bad, it really is a great story. But that's all it is, a big ol' story.

[Guest zenmonkey]

Although I always enjoy reading a report no matter how truthful the report seems I don't take it that way because at the end of the day it is just a story. Now thats not saying that Ive read a few and gone "Man might be something to that."Still doesn't really matter, just a story.

[gigantor]

SY, that's a good story, thanks for posting it.

Yet I'm skeptical because the witness says he was really scared, it was a life-changing event, was scared in his home and would close the curtains, nightmares, the event took away his joy of hunting, etc.

Yet after questioning, he says a couple of weeks later, he was out hunting again a mile away and a something bumped his deer stand, and on another incident, something stole a deer kill...

He kinda contradicted himself there... but who knows, maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Nate, I've been reading reports for a long time now, and very, very few impress me anymore.

Jiggy, I think that people read these stories and when they report their sighting, they just include details they've read from previous reports. It's difficult to tell if they really experienced those details or they just added what others reported.

Edited December 27, 2013 by gigantor

[Terry]

I agree with the post computer stories/interviews.  They were mostly from woodsman or people who were far afield during their sighting and were much more descriptive and believable.  In my opinion the sightings and tales these days just keep getting more unbelievable and we are now being inundated by the "way out there" crowd.  

 

t.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Terry

[kbhunter]

MODERATOR STATEMENT

 

Folks, Dr Johnson is a member here and thusly deserves the same respect as any other member!

KB

[kitakaze]

I wish I could embrace human nature as you do Nathan

But after 20yrs in sales I've seen it all and have been astounded at our species ability to lie, and like they say if the person believes it...maybe it's not a lie.

I don't buy into the emotional component of story telling as a sign of credibility.

This guy cries almost every time he tells this story...not saying he's lying..but something ain't quite right in my book...

 

Ditto. That is all.